Buy or sell: Percy Harvin

[Rayman]

I have pics disabled otherwise I definitely would have.

Everyone keeps talking about big of an ego Harvin has and how he is a dickhead but the fact of the matter is that the guy has not even played a single down in the NFL.

I'm not going to buy into all these, "My cousin's friend went to HS with Harvin and he said he has the biggest ego ever" bullshit. I'll wait till the guy is actually on a team and actually acts like a dickhead before I label him one.

And David Boston was 6'2" 250. Harvin is 5'11" 193. Why are you comparing the two again?

IDK, something about the way his arms are so blown up. I know they're nothing alike as far as size, but Harvin might like working out TOO much.

Boston had the same problem, except, you know, he was doing roids. I'll give Harvin the benefit of the doubt on that.

And again, if Harvin had no issues, Dallas wouldn't have removed him from their draft board. Fact is that they did.

[Rayman]

I wouldn't put much stock in Dallas putting a player off their board. Teams have different needs, and besides, who is on their board isn't for public consumption. 99% of pre-draft talk and rumors just aren't credible.

They supposedly have a need at WR.

Harvin, one of the BC DTs (I'm thinking Brace) and an OL from South Carolina are on that list. I'm not gonna state it as fact, but I'm pretty confident in my sources on this one.

[Tailback U]

IDK, something about the way his arms are so blown up. I know they're nothing alike as far as size, but Harvin might like working out TOO much.

Boston had the same problem, except, you know, he was doing roids. I'll give Harvin the benefit of the doubt on that.

And again, if Harvin had no issues, Dallas wouldn't have removed him from their draft board. Fact is that they did.

Most NFL WR's (and other skilled position players for that matter) will look bigger in close ups with their arms or muscles showing than on the field and next to all the other freaks out there. Stand Harvin next to another in the NFL and his arms won't look much bigger, if at all. Not that it really matters, but you are starting to really reach (accusing him of being a dickhead, semi-accusing him of roiding).

Anyway, pointless in continuing this, because I agree with you that Dallas won't take him.

[Obst]

Who didn't watch Florida this year.

Seems like you didn't want enough of him. Might of missed his game vs Georgia when he was getting wide open, but yeah you've seen enough of him to say he can't run routes, lol, whatever you say. In your previous post you were knocking him down on how terrible he was, but if you watched him, he runs good routes, has excellent field vision, and is tough as they come. But you've based your opinion already.

[NAHSTE]

Seems like you didn't want enough of him. Might of missed his game vs Georgia when he was getting wide open, but yeah you've seen enough of him to say he can't run routes, lol, whatever you say. In your previous post you were knocking him down on how terrible he was, but if you watched him, he runs good routes, has excellent field vision, and is tough as they come. But you've based your opinion already.

For him to run good routes it'd be required that they actually had routes at Florida. He got wide open a lot in college, but it wasn't because he beat man coverage with a precisely ran route, it's because he is in an offense geared towards getting people the ball in space. So many of their plays require him to just turn around at the LOS, or drift into a soft spot and wait for a quick throw.

I don't think he's going to be a horrendous receiver, but he's far from polished at the moment.

[Obst]

For him to run good routes it'd be required that they actually had routes at Florida. He got wide open a lot in college, but it wasn't because he beat man coverage with a precisely ran route, it's because he is in an offense geared towards getting people the ball in space. So many of their plays require him to just turn around at the LOS, or drift into a soft spot and wait for a quick throw.

I don't think he's going to be a horrendous receiver, but he's far from polished at the moment.

Yeah he did do a lot of routes that required to get open in space, but he also did have to run exact routes and was good at it. For anyone to say he is terrible at running routes hasn't watched him play.

[NAHSTE]

Yeah he did do a lot of routes that required to get open in space, but he also did have to run exact routes and was good at it. For anyone to say he is terrible at running routes hasn't watched him play.

Nobody is really saying he's terrible at them, just that he not as experienced as a route runner as some of the other options out there. He's definitely going to go through an adjustment period learning some new routes because it's been documented that Florida does not use a standard passing tree like more traditional systems like LSU, Georgia, USC, etc. would use.

Again, I don't think he's a horrible WR right now but he's definitely going to require some work. He is dynamic and explosive and certainly has the ability to get open, he just needs some practice is all.

[Liquidrob]

how good was hines ward at running routes when he came out of college?

[Rayman]

Most NFL WR's (and other skilled position players for that matter) will look bigger in close ups with their arms or muscles showing than on the field and next to all the other freaks out there. Stand Harvin next to another in the NFL and his arms won't look much bigger, if at all. Not that it really matters, but you are starting to really reach (accusing him of being a dickhead, semi-accusing him of roiding).

Anyway, pointless in continuing this, because I agree with you that Dallas won't take him.

I'm not reaching, but apparently you are. I didn't accuse him of anything other than being taken off Dallas' draft board, mostly for character reasons.

Those scouts know a hell of a lot more about him than you or I do, so I'll tend to believe their take.

[NAHSTE]

how good was hines ward at running routes when he came out of college?

Played in a pro-style offense, and has superior change of direction skills. I'd say he was pretty good at running routes when he came out. If you are saying because he played QB, he only played like 4 games at QB and about 15-20 at WR in his career.

[Obst]

Hines can be compared to Percy a lot, but the way I would get the comparison is they both don't have big body frames and both played WR and HB in college.

[FirstTimer]

Wait a sec..Ron Turner's not a great OC? That's hard to believe!

Meh. Turner is decent. The Bears positional coaches a lot of times are the issue. Smith made the mistake of bringing in a lot of college guys to be positional coaches when he first got the job and IMO it hurt player development alot.

I think he sees that mistake now and has brought in some coaches with better NFL chops like Mirenelli at DL.

[Senser81]

Meh. Turner is decent. The Bears positional coaches a lot of times are the issue. Smith made the mistake of bringing in a lot of college guys to be positional coaches when he first got the job and IMO it hurt player development alot.

I think he sees that mistake now and has brought in some coaches with better NFL chops like Mirenelli at DL.

Turner is horrible. The only way his 'offense' can do well is if they have superior talent. His system is so incredibly simple...just have the QB lob it up to the WR. It works if you have good, tall WRs (Lloyd & Young at Illinois, Conway & Graham at Chicago), but it doesn't allow for much flexibility or tailoring of the offense to your talent. I cannot believe Turner is still employed in the NFL.

[FirstTimer]

Turner is horrible. The only way his 'offense' can do well is if they have superior talent. His system is so incredibly simple...just have the QB lob it up to the WR. It works if you have good, tall WRs (Lloyd & Young at Illinois, Conway & Graham at Chicago), but it doesn't allow for much flexibility or tailoring of the offense to your talent. I cannot believe Turner is still employed in the NFL.

Turner had a very good year last year as an OC. His offense needs the deepball to work and Orton's biggest weakness is the deepball but yet Turner made the Bears offense into a real strength for much of the season. Having a stud rookie RB helped out and so did two good TE's in Olsen and Clark but Tuner had nothign at WR last year and still made an NFL offensive perform well.

Turner's biggest problem has always been predictablity and bad play calling around the goalline.

Turner isn't as bad as a lot of people say but he also isn't anything more than average at best. If the Bears let him go I wouldn't shed a tear.

In all honesty this could be his last season in Chicago if the offense under performs because the team/city feels like we have a real QB now. Cutler will get at least a one season honeymoon period which means any underachieving will fall directly on Turner's shoulders when in years past that blame could be deflected because of inadequacies on offense, namely at the QB position. Obviously he won't have that this year.

[Senser81]

Turner had a very good year last year as an OC. His offense needs the deepball to work and Orton's biggest weakness is the deepball but yet Turner made the Bears offense into a real strength for much of the season. Having a stud rookie RB helped out and so did two good TE's in Olsen and Clark but Tuner had nothign at WR last year and still made an NFL offensive perform well.

I didn't understand why it took so long for Turner to incorporate Olsen and Clark into the offense, or why it took so long for Turner to give Hester a shot at WR. Its not like the Bears WRs actually run pass patterns. They just run in a straight line and hope Grossman/Orton can get them the ball...it seems like the 'Turner system' was custom-made for someone like Hester.