PFT: Garcia On Track To Take Job From JaMarcus?

[Senser81]

Rashied Davis is better than anything the Raiders had.

Every time I think you've said the dumbest thing you'll ever say in your lifetime, you say something even worse 10 minutes later!

[FirstTimer]

Rashied Davis is better than anything the Raiders had.

No he's not. Ronald Curry has had a better pro career than Davis. And that's not saying much. Rashied Davis is a converted CB. Marginal true WR's>>>>Converted AFL CB's.

Our top two WR's aren't even true WR's. They are undersized converted return men and defensive backs. At least Oakland can argue they have true WR's lining up each play.

Olsen and Clark are good options while OAK only had Zach Miller at the TE position and 8 out of 10 plays he had to be kept in to pass block.

Odd. I thought those guys were TE's. I was talking about WR's. Position change in Madden perhaps?

But no one here would know that since they don't watch OAK.

Satellite TV>>>You.

Yes I watched Oakland last year. I actually don't dislike Oakland at all. Al Davis is a quack but Oakland is one team from the AFC I follow.

The rest of the team could never get open. Once in a while Johnnie Lee Higgins would get open, Russell would hit him and he'd get 60 yards. Other than that, literally every throw Russell had to put it where the WR was the only one who could catch it and they would obviously never make a play.

Sounds a lot like Kyle Orton.... So STFU as if Russell was the only one with a problem.

I think you guys honestly believe Russell has WRs prancing around in the endzone uncovered, playing a game of cards and he's throwing the ball into the stands.

No. That's not what we said at all. In fact His accuracy issues have been well documented since his college days and as recently as at the recent minicamp where he looked sloppy.

Sorry if it's a stretch to say a guy with a career 53.9% completetion percentage MAY have a few accuracy issues.

As for him being overweight, wow.

Speaks to laziness not so much a prototypical body. Way to miss the point. No one is saying he has to look like Atlas, but at the same time weight issues raises committment concerns to how serious he is about keeping himself in shape and performing at an optimal level. Way to miss that point.

Or maybe Brady Quinn. Boy he's successful.

So Brady Quinn's lack of success gives JR an excuse to be bad?

Joe Flacco put up close to the same numbers on a team that is infinitely better than OAK in every facet of the game and he gets no criticism.

Actually he does. Plus Flacco actually demonstrated some accuracy and Flacco was a freaking rookie. JR was a 2nd year player so the critique would be a little different.

I like how JR gets a pass because of a rookie's QB performance and b/c Brady Quinn is jacked but hasn't done anything in the NFL either.

If you watched every game you would see how silly this all is. A rookie starter in that situation would not succeed, period.

JR wasn't a rookie so your point is moot.

The situation is different this year. Improved Oline, added WRs. A year of experience under his belt. Garcia mentoring him. If he doesn't improve this season then I will be on the bandwagon with you guys.

You could have said the same thing last year minus Garcia there to "mentor him". LOL at that. Garcia isn't there to mentor him. He's there to win the job. That's clear.

[Senser81]

I would still trade for your WR's. With the exception of Bey. I want to see what he can do first before I judge.

WTF? Can you even name the Bears WRs?

[FirstTimer]

I would still trade for your WR's. .

It appears Al Davis' idiocy is contagious.

[FirstTimer]

Honestly no, but after watching Oakland's last year anything has to be better than that shit. None of them could catch, run routes, or anything needed to be successful.

So you just basically admitted your own ignorance.

[Senser81]

Honestly no, but after watching Oakland's last year anything has to be better than that shit. None of them could catch, run routes, or anything needed to be successful.

Agree that the Raiders WRs are horrible, but at least Oakland made a token effort with Walker and Lelie. You can say 'these guys had 1000-yard seasons in the not-so-distant past'...whereas the Bears were content to have Brandon Lloyd and Marty Booker as their starters, and refused to let Hester play WR. I heard the Bears will be getting rid of Lloyd and Booker, which is fine, but I don't even know who they have on their roster to play WR.

[Senser81]

Ronald Curry got cut............................................... .................................................. .................................................. ..................................

You say I miss points... holy. Where did I say Quinn's lack of success gives JR an excuse to be bad? So because JR is overweight he must be a lazy piece of shit. That is a great point, I never thought of that. Brady must have been a lazy piece of shit too when he entered the draft looking like play-dough.

Oh and..

For Garcia's part, he is finally ready to impart. That hasn't been the case before. Not the past two seasons fighting for his job with Tampa Bay, and certainly not in 2006 when he backed up Donovan McNabb in Philadelphia.

He had no interest in playing the mentor then. He has accepted the role now, even if his interest in not starting remains lukewarm.

"It's not an easy role to accept because of the competitive nature that is within me," Garcia said. "I struggled with it when I was in Philadelphia. Knowing my role going in there, I had a hard time just sitting on the sideline watching. I still tried to be for Donovan, which is what I'll be here for JaMarcus."

You have no clue about the Raiders.

The tone of your post conveyed a sense of finality, as if this would be your final post in this thread.

Thank you.

[FirstTimer]

Agree that the Raiders WRs are horrible, but at least Oakland made a token effort with Walker and Lelie. You can say 'these guys had 1000-yard seasons in the not-so-distant past'...whereas the Bears were content to have Brandon Lloyd and Marty Booker as their starters, and refused to let Hester play WR.

Hester was a starter from Day 1 last year.
Lloyd had one good game against TB then got hurt and disappeared.
Booker had one memorable catch against Detroit and that was it.
Earl Bennett didn't even have a pass thrown to him last year until Week 17.
Rashied Davis could barely catch a cold 99% of the time last year, let alone a football.

I heard the Bears will be getting rid of Lloyd and Booker, which is fine, but I don't even know who they have on their roster to play WR.

Devin Hester
Earl Bennett
Jauquin Iglesias(r)
Derek Kinder(r)
Johnny Knox(r)
Rashied Davis
Eric Peterman(r)
Brandon Rideau
John Broussard
Devin Aromashodu

Yeah....

[FirstTimer]

yardage/TD's: Devin Hester 665yds/3TD's, RASHIED DAVIS 445yds/2TD's, BRANDON LLOYD 364yds/2TD's, Marty Booker 211yds/2TD's

That's the Bears WR stats

Here's the Raiders

JHL 336/4
Schilens 226/2
Lelie 197//1
Curry 181/2

The Bears had way more yards and more touchdowns to boot.

Perhaps because they had a better QB throwing them the ball? I mean seeing as the entire ton of this conversation is about a certain QB not being all that good.....

Ronald Curry got cut............................................... .................................................. .................................................. ..................................

No duh really? Last I checked he was still on the team last year and we were talking about the WR's from last years team so........What's your point?

You say I miss points... holy. Where did I say Quinn's lack of success gives JR an excuse to be bad? So because JR is overweight he must be a lazy piece of shit. That is a great point, I never thought of that. Brady must have been a lazy piece of shit too when he entered the draft looking like play-dough.

Well you brought up Brady Quinn's lack of success in talking about JR's lack of success. Meaning..what does Brady Quinn playing or not playing have to do with JR doing well? Oh yeah/ Nothing.

Ha! Brady Quinn outbenched most offensive linemen at the combine. Hardly "play dough" shit. LOL at even comparing Brady Quinn's physical shape to JR's.

For Garcia's part, he is finally ready to impart. That hasn't been the case before. Not the past two seasons fighting for his job with Tampa Bay, and certainly not in 2006 when he backed up Donovan McNabb in Philadelphia.

He had no interest in playing the mentor then. He has accepted the role now, even if his interest in not starting remains lukewarm.

"It's not an easy role to accept because of the competitive nature that is within me," Garcia said. "I struggled with it when I was in Philadelphia. Knowing my role going in there, I had a hard time just sitting on the sideline watching. I still tried to be for Donovan, which is what I'll be here for JaMarcus."

So he's going to try and be there like he was for McNabb yet the article admits that he wasn't ready to "impart" for McNabb two years ago? Or let alone the fact that 3 days ago Garcia was talking about being ready to start if called upon and if coachs felt he gave them the best chance to win because of his veteran advantages. LOL

Yeah sure seems like the attitude of the guy who will be happy to sit back and mentor.

Garcia left Tampa to find a place where he felt he could start. He found Oakland because of JR's shakey hold on the job. If he wanted to stay and "impart wisdom" he could have stayed in Tampa or found any other number of teams to go to.

The tone of your post conveyed a sense of finality, as if this would be your final post in this thread.

Thank you.

I hope to God so.

[Tailback U]

You seem like a somewhat intelligent person, so I am amazed that you still don't understand my point. First, one would expect a #1 overall pick to have 'good' college stats. Second, Russell had good stats his senior year, but nothing special. Third, if you are still using college stats to justify a 3rd year NFL player's position, then that should indicate a problem.

LOL at "do you even know what you are arguing?" I cannot comprehend how a person as clueless as yourself could be questioning MY intelligence. I think I've made myself clear...I honestly cannot frame my argument in simpler terms. Its not my fault that on top of your retardation, you are also a cumfart.



Do you understand that NOT PLAYING is also an indication of a player's ability? Do you seriously think that Jim Sorgi is better than Peyton Manning, but we just aren't aware of it because Sorgi never plays? Do you think that Garrett Wolfe is the best RB in the NFL? I am stunned at the idiocy of your statement.

Furthermore, my point remains (as usual) that at least the Niners didn't waste time with Alex Smith. They played him, he couldn't hack it, and they moved on. Has nothing to do with JAMARCUS RUSSELL NOT STARTING. I don't understand how one effects the other. If the Raiders are going to slowly bring Russell along (because of Russell's own shortcomings), and they are going to accept Russell having 3 mediocre games a year along with 13 crappy games, then THEY ARE GOING TO WASTE TOO MUCH TIME WITH RUSSELL. See how its different than what the Niners did? See how time doesn't come to a stop when Russell doesn't play? Time moves on even though Russell might be on the sideline. The Raiders season doesn't go into 'carbonite freezing' just because Russell is too stupid to learn the playbook. The team still has to play.

God, this is ridiculous!

Again, I brought up the college stats for other reasons, not to argue that Russell is going to be a good pro. Yet you keep bringing it up as if I presented his college stats to show that Russell will be good in the pro's. Please get it through your thick skull, the college stats were brought up to show JR's improvements at LSU and to argue with those saying he even sucked in college, nothing more. They have no relevance as to how he will play in the pro's and I was never arguing that by bringing them up. Please understand this because I am tired of explaining this to you.

Secondly, and once again, Russell has played 16 games. No matter what you say, the fact of the matter is that 16 games is not enough time when it comes to evaluating a player's potential. Especially a player who is being paid so much money and is the number 1 draft pick. You have to ride it out for at least 3 seasons before you can judge a QB drafted that high. Most people will agree that it takes 3 full seasons for a quarterback to really show what they are made of. This will be Russell's third season. If he fails this year, then the Raiders need to start searching for another franchise QB.

If Russell starts all 16 games this year, he will have 32 starts under his belt. Once again, Alex Smith had 30 starts before the 49ers sat him (and who knows how much more time the Niners would have wasted on Smith had he not injured his shoulder). And in case you haven't noticed, the Raiders have been pretty shitty from top to bottom for the last 7 years, there's no such thing as "wasting time" when it comes to developing young players after you've been shitty for so long.

You have to be patient and develop consistency within the roster, coaching staff, and scheme it doesn't happen over night. Sitting Russell his rookie season wasn't a waste of time because the team was going to suck ass anyway. Better than throwing him in there to be sacked 50 times, get hurt, and lose all confidence.

Anyway, I think we can both agree to disagree at this point. This discussion has become stale and this much breath should never be wasted on Russell. Let's see how he does this season and then we can solidify him as a bust or not.

[FirstTimer]

If OAK cut Curry what does that tell you...............

Who the fuck knows? Oaklands personel department is retarded? I mean can we honestly judge anything based upon what the Oakland personnel department decides?

Tom Brady

Comparing a QB who was taken in the 6th Rd to a #1 draft pick. I mean hell let's also ignore that Tom Brady is a HOF caliber QB who has never had weight issues or conditioning issues the way Russel has even if Brady looks "soft". Culpepper was a big B too but noone ever questioned his conditioning as I recall.

And.. you are arguing the merits of the article I posted from a writer around the team who actually talked to people involved while you are 100% behind a one paragraph article which is complete speculation.

WHAT???

I am taken Garcia at his word. If Garcia is so ready ti "impart his wisdom" on JR and be happy to back him up why is he already campaigning to be a possible choice as a starter in MAY?

[FirstTimer]

Hmm right........ Curry is still a great WR.

Did I miss where I called Curry great? Did anyone call Curry great? What the fuck are you talking about? I said Curry is better than anything the Bears have. That's not saying much....but it's still true.

Yes, Garcia is campaigning to start. This is very clear. Good point. How could I have missed where Garcia is campaigning to start?

I don't know. Maybe you missed Sportscenter about 4 days ago? Hell they had John Clayton on talking about it.

Garcia last week:

"I'm not going to say that things can't change and I understand that the role I have basically assumed going into Oakland knowing that JaMarcus was drafted to be the starting quarterback there," Garcia said in the interview.


"But, if for some reason," Garcia continues, "With what I bring as a player, from a competitive nature, and just the intensity and emotion that I bring to the field, and the knowledge of the game that I have -- if that gives us a better chance to win football games, then that decision is going to have to be left up to the coach and hopfully he can make the right decision for the team."
Certainly Mr. Garcia has entertained the possibility that he could win this starting job. Certainly he's not shy about articluating the precise reasons why his skill set could justify a quarterback change.

"It’s about the team, it’s not about protecting egos, or protecting investment dollars, it’s about what’s going to give this team a chance to win football games," Garcia says in the interview. "And honestly, if JaMarcus can be that guy, more power to him, because that’s what he was drafted to do for the team. But it doesn’t always seem to work out that way as to what owners and GM's may hope for and what actually transpires in the locker room and on the field.”

Yeah that sounds like a guy who will be justhappy to sit back on the bench and impart wisdom onto JR.

[Senser81]

Again, I brought up the college stats for other reasons, not to argue that Russell is going to be a good pro. Yet you keep bringing it up as if I presented his college stats to show that Russell will be good in the pro's. Please get it through your thick skull, the college stats were brought up to show JR's improvements at LSU and to argue with those saying he even sucked in college, nothing more. They have no relevance as to how he will play in the pro's and I was never arguing that by bringing them up. Please understand this because I am tired of explaining this to you.

So, Russell will be good in the pros because he will steadily improve like he did at LSU. The proof is the college stats Russell had. Am I missing something? They are OBVIOUSLY relevant to his NFL performance, or else why would you be bringing them up? You just said you were comparing Russell's upward college career curve to his alleged upward NFL career curve.

And the point wasn't that he sucked in college, the point was that his stats weren't THAT good for a #1 overall pick, and he only had one good year in college.

Secondly, and once again, Russell has played 16 games. No matter what you say, the fact of the matter is that 16 games is not enough time when it comes to evaluating a player's potential. Especially a player who is being paid so much money and is the number 1 draft pick. You have to ride it out for at least 3 seasons before you can judge a QB drafted that high. Most people will agree that it takes 3 full seasons for a quarterback to really show what they are made of. This will be Russell's third season. If he fails this year, then the Raiders need to start searching for another franchise QB.

Completely disagree that it takes 3 seasons, but thats not the point. My point was that this was a make or break year for Russell. He can't suck this entire year too and expect the Raiders to fart around with him for a fourth season. If a player is taken #1 overall and he's still not producing after 3 seasons, he's a bust. But you seem to be saying the same thing (now).

[FirstTimer]

Why didn't the Bears sign him then.

Like I'm going to defend the Bears ability to evaluate WR's. They feel Devin Hester is a true #1..........and signed Brandon Lloyd and Marty Booker last year.

AGAIN!

Garcia last week:

"I'm not going to say that things can't change and I understand that the role I have basically assumed going into Oakland knowing that JaMarcus was drafted to be the starting quarterback there," Garcia said in the interview.


"But, if for some reason," Garcia continues, "With what I bring as a player, from a competitive nature, and just the intensity and emotion that I bring to the field, and the knowledge of the game that I have -- if that gives us a better chance to win football games, then that decision is going to have to be left up to the coach and hopfully he can make the right decision for the team."
Certainly Mr. Garcia has entertained the possibility that he could win this starting job. Certainly he's not shy about articluating the precise reasons why his skill set could justify a quarterback change.

"It’s about the team, it’s not about protecting egos, or protecting investment dollars, it’s about what’s going to give this team a chance to win football games," Garcia says in the interview. "And honestly, if JaMarcus can be that guy, more power to him, because that’s what he was drafted to do for the team. But it doesn’t always seem to work out that way as to what owners and GM's may hope for and what actually transpires in the locker room and on the field.”

Yeah that sounds like a guy who will be justhappy to sit back on the bench and impart wisdom onto JR.

[FirstTimer]

Obviously he wants to play, everyone does.

But I thought he was finally ready to just "impart" on JR. Why does it matter if he plays?

I think he would be happy in either role.

Obviously not. If he was so happy to sit he wouldn't be talking about winning the job now.

The bottom line though is that the Raiders didn't bring Garcia in to start. They brought him in to help Russell learn how to be a great QB.

Who the fuck cares why the Raiders brought him there? If Garcia isn't willing to help JR and he wants to start Garcia will force the Raiders hand with his play. Garcia has never been a mentor and never will be. The guy jumps around places where he feels he has a shot to play.