The Boxing Thread (Sweet Science) - Mayweather vs. Maidana

[Steel Mamba]

He looked like he has the potential to become an elite fighter, but I don't know if he exactly looked good in that fight. He left him self too open, didn't establish a jab, and tried to brawl with him too much. But, he's aware of the mistakes he made so if he can get his mindset right I'm sure he'll rebound from this. & again that's a lot of pressure Golden Boy put on a fighter who's still early in his career.

[Liquidrob]

He looked like he has the potential to become an elite fighter, but I don't know if he exactly looked good in that fight. He left him self too open, didn't establish a jab, and tried to brawl with him too much. But, he's aware of the mistakes he made so if he can get his mindset right I'm sure he'll rebound from this. & again that's a lot of pressure Golden Boy put on a fighter who's still early in his career.

he looked good with his hand speed, power, his punches were tight, etc..but like I said and you said, the brawling really got to him and he got sloppy

wierd that he quit like that, he showed some good toughness when he would get rocked and kept coming back strong, just to much pressure to soon I guess

I like what I saw though, he has the tools, just not the mental game

[Bigpapa42]

Just watched the Ortiz-Maidana fight. Good fight. Not exactly the look of a champion from Ortiz, in terms of heart.

[nflman2033]

lets see, back to the Frosh/Taylor fight, no question Taylor was up on the scorecards, but he didn't deserve to win because he couldn't finish, he is not a finisher.

Abraham looks good however my issue is I am not convinced because I haven't seen him fight anyone special, I don't think he fights well with Pavlik, too bad i don't see that fight happening.

the HBO fight was sure fun to watch, last night between two fights there was like 9 knockdowns..lol.. crazy stuff, the Ortiz/Maidona fight was like watching marquez/vasquez last year, lots of offense two guys just going at it. Not sure either one of them could handle the top guys at 140, probably nothing more than ricky Hatton type fighers(good enough to beat the bums but will fold against top guys)

[JrRawlins]

I personally thought Ortiz's defense was terrible... especially after he threw his punches, he left his hands down waaay too long, and its part of the reason he got dropped.... I am quite disappointed in him though... saying he shouldnt be gettin hurt like that, and he wants to be able to talk when he is older? huh... dude your like 25... and really just gettin into your career..... he has a ton of talent, but i dont think his heart is in it....

about Froch/Taylor... great fight, i am personally hoping for a Part II... Taylor had a decision wrapped up, i give him credit for standing in there and fighting regardless..... but he fades like a MJ jumper late in fights... and cant seem to finish quality fighters.....

about Abraham, a move up in weight might expose him.... there are some really quality fighters at 168 as i mentioned in a previous post.... While i am excited to see him move up, i also want to see him fight Pavlik... i think Pavlik's power plus work rate might be a bit much for Abraham.... this guy Oral was hitting him with some clean shots but had zippie power.....

[Liquidrob]

Oritz has the tools, defensively he just got loose when he started brawling it seemed, will have to watch it again to really see

His punches were tight, hooks were so compact on the knockdowns, great speed, etc...I think he just got caught up in the moment and started to wing it, it was a real eye opener to him that guys can take power shots and keep coming

he is only 22 and shouldnt be talking like that, that is a huge issue, pretty much what will make or break him

Abrham/Pavlik would be great, I think pavlik takes him out thought, Abraham was getting hit by this guy when he decided to open up, if Pavlik catches him it will get ugly, fight I want to see though

[JrRawlins]

AA/Pavlik woul dbe a great fight..... both of them would be tested.... AA speed might give Pavlik a problem, but i think that leaky defense AA is displaying would come back to hurt him, as i have yet to see a 160 lb fighter stand in fornt of Pavlik and trade with him for more than 7 rounds... ( Taylor and Mirnada both wilt in the 6th or 7th respectively)

[Bigpapa42]

So does anyone think David Haye could take Klitschko?

[nflman2033]

So does anyone think David Haye could take Klitschko?

nope no way, I mean sure its possible, he would have to get inside his jab and land big power shots on his chin, however good luck with that

[wr50l]

So does anyone think David Haye could take Klitschko?

No, not really. But he will.

Rule Britannia!

[JrRawlins]

So does anyone think David Haye could take Klitschko?

nah, only way he can is to get inside of Klitsch's jab.... which i am not certain Haye can do, even if he does he has to land without Klitch simply tyin him up.....

[JrRawlins]

Showtime super middleweight tourney in works
LINK

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4306380&name=rafael_dan

Saturday, July 4, 2009 | Print Entry

Since Joe Calzaghe left the super middleweight division at the end of 2007 for two fights at light heavyweight and then retirement, the 168-pound division has been without a king, although there are several interesting and exciting fighters and potential matches in the weight class.

Showtime, of course, has been heavily invested in the division, broadcasting a number of significant bouts at 168 over the past year or so. It has also looked to the future of the division, which is one of the reasons it televised last week's Arthur Abraham middleweight title defense from Germany knowing full well that Abraham is on the verge of moving up in weight.

Now, Showtime is taking an even bigger plunge, and if the network's boxing chief, Ken Hershman, pulls off an audacious and ambitious plan, we will see the crowning of a new king in the division after a series of high-profile bouts between the fall and mid-2011.

Hershman is working hard to finalize a stunning six-man round-robin tournament involving most of the key fighters in the division: Carl Froch, Mikkel Kessler, Jermain Taylor, Andre Ward, Andre Dirrell and Abraham, who would move up in weight.

Showtime didn't respond to requests for comment, but I've been doing my own digging and have talked to multiple sources involved in what will be one of the most significant events in boxing in recent years.

If this thing comes off -- a big if -- it could be spectacular.

Keep in mind that tournaments are awfully hard to keep together. Anyone remember HBO's 1980s heavyweight tournament? But if everyone signs off on this one, they'll be committed on paper to a series of fights against predetermined opponents (except in the semifinals and finals).

The beauty of this tournament is that it's not an elimination tournament. Just because a fighter loses does not mean he is out of the competition. On the contrary. His career will go on and he will have a chance to regenerate himself for good money against another fighter in the round robin. Win or lose, each fighter will fight on, collecting points based on how their fights go. I'll get to the particulars on that in a minute.

Here are the details as I know them, and keep in mind that not all of the promoters involved, including Gary Shaw, Lou DiBella, Wilfried Sauerland, Dan Goossen and Mick Hennessy, have officially signed off yet.

The first two bouts are tentatively scheduled for Oct. 10 with Froch, of England, defending his belt in the United Kingdom against American rising contender Dirrell. There has been some talk of a Froch-Kelly Pavlik fight on HBO in the fall, but that seems unlikely now. Entering the tournament makes a lot of sense for Froch, who has been unable to attract big TV money in his home country.

On the same telecast, but in Germany, Abraham is supposed to move up in weight to face former middleweight champ Taylor, who was knocked out by Froch in the 12th round of an April super middleweight title challenge. It's a tough way for Taylor to make his return, but he can make a statement by beating Abraham.

The third fight in what is supposed to be a 12-bout tournament would see titleholder Kessler, who has been bogged down in a dispute with promoter Mogens Palle, come to America and defend against Ward on Nov. 7. Presumably, that bout will take place in Ward's hometown of Oakland, Calif., or in that region. Presumably, Kessler will have settled his differences with Palle or gone to another promoter.

The fourth bout is supposed to take place Jan. 30 in America with Abraham facing Dirrell. Abraham has long wanted to campaign in America, so this also makes sense.

The next fight, taking place in March 2010, would be Froch against Kessler in either the U.K. or Kessler's native Denmark.

The sixth fight would match Ward and Taylor in the United States in April or May 2010. There is also a possibility of Ward-Taylor and Froch-Kessler taking place on the same date with Showtime doing a split-site show.

Fight No. 7 would pit 2004 U.S. Olympic gold medalist Ward against teammate and bronze medalist Dirrell in July or August 2010 in the United States.

The eighth fight of the tournament would match Froch and Abraham, also in July or August 2010 in Europe. It also might be paired with Dirrell-Ward on another split-site show.

In September 2010, Kessler would face Taylor in the U.S. in the final bout of the preliminary matches.

The semifinals are slated for January 2011, with the final, to be held in the U.S., penciled in for May or June 2011.

The way fighters will advance to the semifinals is by collecting points. A fighter will get two points for a victory, with an additional point given for a knockout. One point is awarded for a draw. No points are awarded for a loss.

The four fighters with the highest point totals advance to the semifinals and will be seeded based on who has the most points. The fighter who has racked up the most points faces the fighter among the four semifinalists with the fewest points. The No. 2 and No. 3 point earners face each other in the other semifinal.

And what if there is a tie in points at the semifinal stage? Easy. If two fighters who have already faced each other are tied, the winner of that bout will be the one to advance to the semis. If there is a tie between fighters who have not fought, the guy with the most stoppage wins in the tournament advances. If there is still a tie, they'll go to the official scorecards of each fighter's tournament bouts and add them up, with the leader advancing. If the ties continue, the ultimate decision will be made with a coin flip.

Hershman has been very thorough -- and secretive -- in this whole process. But, from what I understand, he made at least one trip to Germany to meet with Abraham's handlers. He also worked closely to get Al Haymon, the adviser of Taylor and Dirrell, on board before getting their promoters involved.

Hershman has come up with contingencies in the event of a no contest, a positive drug test and even if a fighter fails to make the 168-pound limit. There are also contingencies in the event of a draw in the semifinals, not to mention language in the contract that addresses everything from sponsorship revenue sharing to ticket allotments.

Hershman has also covered himself in another critical area, that of mandatory obligations of the titleholders. They won't get in the way. By entering the tournament, the fighters and their promoters expressly agree that the tournament takes precedence over a mandatory bout, although a mandatory could take place if it's within the context of the tournament.

If it all comes off, it will be a miracle. But the concept is exciting and you have to figure we'll see some good fights before somebody inevitably falls out. Showtime, of course, has a mechanism in place to replace a boxer who falls out of the tournament.

Showtime is going to play this up big, which it should. There will be at least four kickoff news conferences scheduled for New York, London, Copenhagen and Berlin. Los Angeles might also be added. While the fighters are in New York for that media event, they are obligated to participate in a Showtime video and photo shoot in order for the network to assemble what it needs for what figures to be a heavy marketing and promotional campaign.

By the way, there is one glaring omission from the tournament: titleholder Lucian Bute of Canada. He's scheduled to face top contender Librado Andrade in a fall mandatory fight, a bout that Golden Boy won the purse bid for last week with an offer of $1.211 million, which beat the $1.195 bid from Bute promoter InterBox.

The first time they met, Bute beat Andrade in a controversial fight that Showtime aired. From what I am told, Showtime wanted Bute in the tournament but his handlers wouldn't commit to the tournament format. So be it.

Meanwhile, it remains to be seen what Golden Boy, which promotes Andrade, is going to do with the fight. It's a bit too rich to be on a pay-per-view undercard, and it also makes absolutely no sense as an HBO fight, given the network's total disinterest in the 168-pound division. Of course, HBO is closely aligned with Golden Boy, so I guess it might do it for that reason.

But Bute-Andrade II is only one fight and, frankly, not really a big one at that.

The big ones would be on Showtime. It's made a serious commitment at 168 pounds. Between the recent bouts it has aired and the plans for this incredible tournament, Showtime has the division locked up, and fight fans will be the happy beneficiaries of its smart game plan.

[JrRawlins]

I am crossing my fingers, this tournament takes place.... too bad Bute's handlers didnt want to hop in it..... maybe Allan Green can get into this somehow....

[Liquidrob]

This would be pretty sick, a showtime SMW tourney

By Rick Reeno

A few weeks back, I reported that Showtime was very interested in putting together a super middleweight tournament with the biggest names at the weight. Over the last few days, BoxingScene.com has spoken with numbers high-level sources who are close to the situation and it appears that Showtime is going to move forward with the super middleweight tournament.

The negotiations for this tournament have been very secretive and some of the information I was able to dig up will make Ken Hershman [Senior Vice President and General Manager, Sports & Event Programming at Showtime] wonder if I tapped his phone line.

From what I was able to find out, Showtime plans to enter into multi-fight agreements with undefeated IBF middleweight champion Arthur Abraham, WBA super middleweight champion Mikkel Kessler, former undisputed middleweight champion Jermain Taylor, undefeated contender Andre Ward, undefeated contender Andre Dirrell and undefeated WBC super middleweight champion Carl Froch.

This will NOT be an elimination style tournament.

Once all of the contracts have been signed and every fighter is officially on board, Showtime plans to match them in a round robin tournament with some form of a point system.

If everything goes as expected, the following fights are being discussed for this tournament.

Arthur Abraham vs. Jermain Taylor in October in Germany
Carl Froch vs. Andre Dirrell in October in the UK.
Mikkel Kessler vs. Andre Ward in November.
Arthur Abraham vs. Andre Dirrell in America in January 2010
Mikkel Kessler vs. Carl Froch in Europe in March 2010
Andre Ward vs. Jermain Taylor in America in April/May 2010
Andre Dirrell vs. Andre Ward in America in September 2010
Arthur Abraham vs. Carl Froch in November 2010, with Mikkel Kessler vs. Jermain Taylor taking place around the same time.

After those bouts takes place and the points are tallied up, there will be semi-finals and a final tournament bout.

As far as Kessler’s legal dispute with Mogens Palle, I’ve heard that some form of an agreement was reached with Palle to allow Kessler to participate. I’ve been told that Palle will not be part of the promotion, but if everything comes together as expected - Dan Goossen, Gary Shaw, Lou DiBella, Sauerland Event and Mick Hennessey will be involved.

Some other points of interest.

1. Abraham would vacate his title and move up to 168.
2. Kelly Pavlik would be left without any significant opponents at 160 or 168. The only options I would see for him is the winner of Lucian Bute vs. Librado Andrade or Paul Williams.
3. You would have to applaud the promoters involved if everything is able to get worked out. The tournament would be a global event with some of the biggest names in America, Germany, UK and Denmark.

[Liquidrob]

Article on ESPN.com about the SMW tourney

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4306380&name=rafael_dan

Since Joe Calzaghe left the super middleweight division at the end of 2007 for two fights at light heavyweight and then retirement, the 168-pound division has been without a king, although there are several interesting and exciting fighters and potential matches in the weight class.

Showtime, of course, has been heavily invested in the division, broadcasting a number of significant bouts at 168 over the past year or so. It has also looked to the future of the division, which is one of the reasons it televised last week's Arthur Abraham middleweight title defense from Germany knowing full well that Abraham is on the verge of moving up in weight.

Now, Showtime is taking an even bigger plunge, and if the network's boxing chief, Ken Hershman, pulls off an audacious and ambitious plan, we will see the crowning of a new king in the division after a series of high-profile bouts between the fall and mid-2011.

Hershman is working hard to finalize a stunning six-man round-robin tournament involving most of the key fighters in the division: Carl Froch, Mikkel Kessler, Jermain Taylor, Andre Ward, Andre Dirrell and Abraham, who would move up in weight.

Showtime didn't respond to requests for comment, but I've been doing my own digging and have talked to multiple sources involved in what will be one of the most significant events in boxing in recent years.

If this thing comes off -- a big if -- it could be spectacular.

Keep in mind that tournaments are awfully hard to keep together. Anyone remember HBO's 1980s heavyweight tournament? But if everyone signs off on this one, they'll be committed on paper to a series of fights against predetermined opponents (except in the semifinals and finals).

The beauty of this tournament is that it's not an elimination tournament. Just because a fighter loses does not mean he is out of the competition. On the contrary. His career will go on and he will have a chance to regenerate himself for good money against another fighter in the round robin. Win or lose, each fighter will fight on, collecting points based on how their fights go. I'll get to the particulars on that in a minute.

Here are the details as I know them, and keep in mind that not all of the promoters involved, including Gary Shaw, Lou DiBella, Wilfried Sauerland, Dan Goossen and Mick Hennessy, have officially signed off yet.

The first two bouts are tentatively scheduled for Oct. 10 with Froch, of England, defending his belt in the United Kingdom against American rising contender Dirrell. There has been some talk of a Froch-Kelly Pavlik fight on HBO in the fall, but that seems unlikely now. Entering the tournament makes a lot of sense for Froch, who has been unable to attract big TV money in his home country.

On the same telecast, but in Germany, Abraham is supposed to move up in weight to face former middleweight champ Taylor, who was knocked out by Froch in the 12th round of an April super middleweight title challenge. It's a tough way for Taylor to make his return, but he can make a statement by beating Abraham.

The third fight in what is supposed to be a 12-bout tournament would see titleholder Kessler, who has been bogged down in a dispute with promoter Mogens Palle, come to America and defend against Ward on Nov. 7. Presumably, that bout will take place in Ward's hometown of Oakland, Calif., or in that region. Presumably, Kessler will have settled his differences with Palle or gone to another promoter.

The fourth bout is supposed to take place Jan. 30 in America with Abraham facing Dirrell. Abraham has long wanted to campaign in America, so this also makes sense.

The next fight, taking place in March 2010, would be Froch against Kessler in either the U.K. or Kessler's native Denmark.

The sixth fight would match Ward and Taylor in the United States in April or May 2010. There is also a possibility of Ward-Taylor and Froch-Kessler taking place on the same date with Showtime doing a split-site show.

Fight No. 7 would pit 2004 U.S. Olympic gold medalist Ward against teammate and bronze medalist Dirrell in July or August 2010 in the United States.

The eighth fight of the tournament would match Froch and Abraham, also in July or August 2010 in Europe. It also might be paired with Dirrell-Ward on another split-site show.

In September 2010, Kessler would face Taylor in the U.S. in the final bout of the preliminary matches.

The semifinals are slated for January 2011, with the final, to be held in the U.S., penciled in for May or June 2011.

The way fighters will advance to the semifinals is by collecting points. A fighter will get two points for a victory, with an additional point given for a knockout. One point is awarded for a draw. No points are awarded for a loss.

The four fighters with the highest point totals advance to the semifinals and will be seeded based on who has the most points. The fighter who has racked up the most points faces the fighter among the four semifinalists with the fewest points. The No. 2 and No. 3 point earners face each other in the other semifinal.

And what if there is a tie in points at the semifinal stage? Easy. If two fighters who have already faced each other are tied, the winner of that bout will be the one to advance to the semis. If there is a tie between fighters who have not fought, the guy with the most stoppage wins in the tournament advances. If there is still a tie, they'll go to the official scorecards of each fighter's tournament bouts and add them up, with the leader advancing. If the ties continue, the ultimate decision will be made with a coin flip.

Hershman has been very thorough -- and secretive -- in this whole process. But, from what I understand, he made at least one trip to Germany to meet with Abraham's handlers. He also worked closely to get Al Haymon, the adviser of Taylor and Dirrell, on board before getting their promoters involved.

Hershman has come up with contingencies in the event of a no contest, a positive drug test and even if a fighter fails to make the 168-pound limit. There are also contingencies in the event of a draw in the semifinals, not to mention language in the contract that addresses everything from sponsorship revenue sharing to ticket allotments.

Hershman has also covered himself in another critical area, that of mandatory obligations of the titleholders. They won't get in the way. By entering the tournament, the fighters and their promoters expressly agree that the tournament takes precedence over a mandatory bout, although a mandatory could take place if it's within the context of the tournament.

If it all comes off, it will be a miracle. But the concept is exciting and you have to figure we'll see some good fights before somebody inevitably falls out. Showtime, of course, has a mechanism in place to replace a boxer who falls out of the tournament.

Showtime is going to play this up big, which it should. There will be at least four kickoff news conferences scheduled for New York, London, Copenhagen and Berlin. Los Angeles might also be added. While the fighters are in New York for that media event, they are obligated to participate in a Showtime video and photo shoot in order for the network to assemble what it needs for what figures to be a heavy marketing and promotional campaign.

By the way, there is one glaring omission from the tournament: titleholder Lucian Bute of Canada. He's scheduled to face top contender Librado Andrade in a fall mandatory fight, a bout that Golden Boy won the purse bid for last week with an offer of $1.211 million, which beat the $1.195 bid from Bute promoter InterBox.

The first time they met, Bute beat Andrade in a controversial fight that Showtime aired. From what I am told, Showtime wanted Bute in the tournament but his handlers wouldn't commit to the tournament format. So be it.

Meanwhile, it remains to be seen what Golden Boy, which promotes Andrade, is going to do with the fight. It's a bit too rich to be on a pay-per-view undercard, and it also makes absolutely no sense as an HBO fight, given the network's total disinterest in the 168-pound division. Of course, HBO is closely aligned with Golden Boy, so I guess it might do it for that reason.

But Bute-Andrade II is only one fight and, frankly, not really a big one at that.

The big ones would be on Showtime. It's made a serious commitment at 168 pounds. Between the recent bouts it has aired and the plans for this incredible tournament, Showtime has the division locked up, and fight fans will be the happy beneficiaries of its smart game plan.