Article on Lesnar...

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  • RosettaStoned
    Throbbing Tebowner
    • Oct 2008
    • 9951

    Article on Lesnar...

    There have been 61 fighters in UFC history who were pro wrestlers at one point or another. There are nine on the current UFC roster. Of the six fighters in the UFC Hall of Fame, three – Ken Shamrock, Dan Severn and Mark Coleman – dabbled in wrestling.

    But UFC heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar is the only one vilified for it.

    It would be easy to say that the attitude Lesnar has displayed – and not his former profession – would be the reason for crowds' reaction to him in his short UFC career. It would be easy to blame his actions in the cage after he beat Frank Mir at UFC 100 for the reaction of the crowd, fellow fighters and media afterward. Except it wouldn't be entirely true.

    When Lesnar stepped out of the dressing room for his first match with Mir in February 2008, no debuting fighter in UFC history was ever so heavily booed. At that point, he had done nothing to be judged on in his UFC career – except that in his two previous careers, as a college wrestler for the University of Minnesota and as a pro wrestler for World Wrestling Entertainment, he had risen to the top.

    The reaction was entirely based on the fact that he was a pro wrestler coming into the UFC. The reaction came from a fan base that judged him as somehow different from the pro wrestlers who came before him into the UFC.

    Of course, none of the former pro wrestlers came into the company with so much publicity and such a rich contract. None walked in with the sort of name value and curiosity which led to what was, at the time, among the most purchased pay-per-view shows in company history.

    This is not a defense of anything he did after the fight. But the reaction to Lesnar's postfight comments and his flipping the bird at fans is just the latest example of a double standard Lesnar has faced in his MMA career.

    What if the Lesnar and Dan Henderson fights and postfights on Saturday night were transposed? If Lesnar had thrown that totally legal but devastating second blow on an already knocked-out foe – and remarked in his interview that he was doing it to shut Mir's mouth – people would have spent the past week demanding that he be banned from the sport. And would Henderson have gotten nearly Lesnar's heat if he had pulled the same postfight antics as Lesnar?

    You want to deny there's a double standard here?

    As Georges St. Pierre continually took down Thiago Alves in their welterweight title fight, the crowd cheered every takedown. Even when St. Pierre wasn't doing damage on the ground, he was being cheered wildly the entire fight.

    In round two, as Lesnar had Mir on the ground and was punching his face in less than 30 seconds before the fight was over, there was a loud chant aimed at referee Herb Dean of "stand them up."

    This was a first in UFC history. Not the chant itself, but it being done when a fighter was pummeling the other and actually seconds away from winning. It was the first time a crowd hated a fighter so much that they were willing to pervert the entire framework of what the sport is supposed to be – that a fighter should do what he can to finish a fight – simply because they wanted that fighter to lose so badly.

    Of all the pro wrestlers who have come into the sport, only two – Lesnar and non-UFC fighter Bobby Lashley – have ever been disrespected by fellow fighters for being a pro wrestler. In Lesnar's four UFC fights, only one opponent didn't throw some kind of variation on "It's not the WWE" at him before the fight. In hyping the match, Mir implied Lesnar was strong but clueless when it came to fighting. Heath Herring and his camp had complained behind the scenes to company officials that it was a joke he was even put in the ring with a fake pro wrestler and made public comments about how the punches were going to be real.

    The only opponent who didn't disrespect Lesnar before the fight was Couture. The only opponent Lesnar didn't trash talk afterward was Couture. Coincidence?

    And Mir probably won't be the last, given the fact that his potential next opponent, Shane Carwin, already has played the pro-wrestling card in starting the hype.

    "We have no scripts in this port, no predetermined earning amount and no predetermined outcomes," Carwin said.

    Saturday night's perfect storm was a moment that will be remembered in the sport's history. It marked the first time that a UFC fighter was the single most talked-about sports personality in the world, as pundits who spent years hyping the likes of Barry Bonds and Randy Moss suddenly found their moral compass and badmouthed Lesnar.

    Lesnar never asked to become the biggest villain the sport has ever seen, but he's also smart enough and experienced enough at it that he knows it's not all a bad thing. While running down Bud Light – UFC's leading sponsor – was not the best of judgment, he's turned out to be one of the greatest things for building the popularity of the sport.

    Just as tennis had John McEnroe and Jimmy Connors, and boxing had Muhammad Ali, and football has Terrell Owens, it is good for the sport to have a great villain. You don't want a sport where everyone is like him; but when push comes to shove, Lesnar is great for the sport, just as St. Pierre is in a very different way.

    The duality of the reaction of the crowds, in comparing the reactions to what Lesnar and Henderson said, and how Lesnar and St. Pierre formulated their winning game plans, says something pretty significant about the sport and its fan base.

    The history of fights which have garnered the most interest and drawn the most money in UFC history, matches built by inflammatory interviews fashioned out of pro wrestling, are what made the sport and saved the sport. The examples are endless – from Tito Ortiz's grudge with Ken Shamrock, to Couture spanking Ortiz at the end of their match, to Quinton Jackson and Rashad Evans nearly coming to blows in the crowd. It's a lesson very much worth examining for anyone arguing about what is good or bad for the future of the sport.

    That's not even a bad thing. But it's simply accepting the truth of what all of this is, as opposed to living in a world of pretend – and then complaining about somebody because he used to be a pro wrestler.

    Dave Meltzer covers mixed martial arts for Yahoo! Sports. This story originally appeared on Yahoo! Sports and is syndicated on MMAjunkie.com as part of a content-partnership deal between the two sites.

    So, metaphorically speaking, our physiology basically has the universe mapped out and you're thinking it needs to be taught addition & subtraction.

    -Alan Aragon
  • CrimsonGhost56
    True Blue
    • Feb 2009
    • 5981

    #2
    pretty good article. Lesnar is automatically vilified cause of his WWE past. Lesnar is the best thing to happen to MMA in a while. whether you like him or not hes brought a new audience to MMA. i cant imagine the number of people who have tuned into PPV's just cause of Lesnar and ended up becoming new fans of the sport.

    Comment

    • JeremyHight
      I wish I was Scrubs
      • Feb 2009
      • 4063

      #3
      If the UFC was smart, they would build upon the hype by doing a series of solid championship bouts on PPV. They cannot put out a weak PPV and have people walk away. Lesnar has gotten the most people talking about MMA since the UFC came onto the scene and people were screaming to have it banned.

      If UFC can bring in Fedor or even better, a marketable boxer, the media wouldn't be able to brush them off anymore.

      Comment

      • Liquidrob
        Izzy is a bum
        • Feb 2009
        • 11785

        #4
        Not really a double standard, pretty much all the other guys that were in pro wrestler were big from MMA first, not pro wrestling

        Even though ken did pro wrestling before MMA, he became a star in MMA before going to the WWE and all the other guys were big in MMA before Pro Wreslting, so its not really a double standard, Brock is really the only 1 to be in Pro Wrestling Star first before MMA in the US

        Its silly anyway, Brock is good because of his wrestling background and is a natural fighter, not his Pro Wrestling background so people shouldnt hold that against him, its just an easy way to hype a fight
        Last edited by Liquidrob; 07-18-2009, 08:02 PM.
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        • Warner2BruceTD
          2011 Poster Of The Year
          • Mar 2009
          • 26142

          #5
          Meltzer bringing the truth as usual, making many of the same points i've been making all week.

          Comment

          • Liquidrob
            Izzy is a bum
            • Feb 2009
            • 11785

            #6
            Originally posted by Warner2BruceTD
            Meltzer bringing the truth as usual, making many of the same points i've been making all week.
            yes, but Brock is not like the others, Brock was a Pro Wrestling star before a MMA star, big difference, but of course you were right about tito and the others using wrestler gimmicks, plus throw in Ken working right a long with tito and it was gold

            as ken said in the past to tito 'I put you over'
            Last edited by Liquidrob; 07-18-2009, 10:28 PM.
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            • Steel Mamba
              Nasty
              • Nov 2008
              • 2549

              #7
              You gotta earn your keep in MMA, respect isn't just handed out that easily. Of course guys are going to be skeptical about Lesnar given his background, he was brand new to MMA and essentially fresh out of the WWE. Thing is though he very well could have won fans over by proving them wrong, but instead he proved them right by acting like a complete clown. Remember Rampage was far from a fan favorite when he first entered the UFC as well, but he stayed humble and look at him now. Stop crying about Brock and the WWE bias, because once he learns to act like a pro he'll be treated like a pro and the wrestling days will be long forgotten. Until then the heat he gets shouldn't come as any surprise.
              Last edited by Steel Mamba; 07-18-2009, 11:00 PM.

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              • Liquidrob
                Izzy is a bum
                • Feb 2009
                • 11785

                #8
                also, I dont understand the problem, isnt this the reaction brock wants? its not like he isnt playing up the role

                also, like I said in the past, when a fight is over, call it 'fake' or whatever you want W2B, in MMA you usually show respect for the other fighter, this isnt scripited and setting up the for the show next week

                you train for months and months, bust your ass, trash talk back and forth and do all that stuff if you want, but when you just finished fighting someone for real, more than likely you have a new found respect for the guy and squash it after the fight
                Last edited by Liquidrob; 07-18-2009, 11:08 PM.
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                • Warner2BruceTD
                  2011 Poster Of The Year
                  • Mar 2009
                  • 26142

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Liquidrob
                  also, like I said in the past, when a fight is over, call it 'fake' or whatever you want W2B, in MMA you usually show respect for the other fighter, this isnt scripited and setting up the for the show next week

                  you train for months and months, bust your ass, trash talk back and forth and do all that stuff if you want, but when you just finished fighting someone for real, more than likely you have a new found respect for the guy and squash it after the fight
                  Right, all of that is part of the game, and I agree with all of it.

                  But that stuff is so much more "pro wrestling" than anything Lesnar did Saturday.

                  Obviously bringing up the WWE and using the lame "this isnt scripted" is something everyone is doing to Lesnar (and Lashley), and he's clearly offended by it, because he dosen't do the "kiss and make up" that guys like Nick Diaz are famous for after they are finished working the marks.

                  Lesnar & Lashley's opponents have played the wretling card much more than the two "phony" guys have.

                  And this was a GREAT point:

                  The only opponent who didn't disrespect Lesnar before the fight was Couture. The only opponent Lesnar didn't trash talk afterward was Couture. Coincidence?

                  I mean, what else needs to be said? He clearly has a bad temper, and it clearly motivates him, so why push his buttons?

                  But here you have Carwin doing the same thing now. Lesnar never brings it up, it's always his opponents.
                  Last edited by Warner2BruceTD; 07-18-2009, 11:20 PM.

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                  • Warner2BruceTD
                    2011 Poster Of The Year
                    • Mar 2009
                    • 26142

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Steel Mamba
                    You gotta earn your keep in MMA, respect isn't just handed out that easily. Of course guys are going to be skeptical about Lesnar given his background, he was brand new to MMA and essentially fresh out of the WWE. Thing is though he very well could have won fans over by proving them wrong, but instead he proved them right by acting like a complete clown. Remember Rampage was far from a fan favorite when he first entered the UFC as well, but he stayed humble and look at him now. Stop crying about Brock and the WWE bias, because once he learns to act like a pro he'll be treated like a pro and the wrestling days will be long forgotten. Until then the heat he gets shouldn't come as any surprise.
                    Dan Henderson knowingly and purposly dropped an elbow on an unconcious opponent. he is being treated like a hero, people think it's great because they hate Bisping.

                    All Lesnar did is get in Mir's face and talk some trash.

                    What's more disrespectful, potentially hurting a man badly, or words?

                    Let's say Hendo cuts the same exact promo Lesnar did....the Coors Light, the horseshoe, getting on top of my wife later....you know people would think it was great, nobody would be calling him a "complete clown".

                    Why? Because he has the MMA pedigree, and Brock is viewed a phony wrassler, a "sport" most elitists hate. Worse yet, he's dominating.

                    Brock USED to be a wrestler. Now he's a fighter, and he's doing the same thing fighters do. Get over it.

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                    • Steel Mamba
                      Nasty
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 2549

                      #11
                      Lesnar just gave Carwin reason to bring it up. There's nothing to bring up if he doesn't do what he did. Whatever way you cut it Lesnar is taking the easy route and nothing will change until he decides to take the harder route.

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                      • Steel Mamba
                        Nasty
                        • Nov 2008
                        • 2549

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Warner2BruceTD
                        Dan Henderson knowingly and purposly dropped an elbow on an unconcious opponent. he is being treated like a hero, people think it's great because they hate Bisping.

                        All Lesnar did is get in Mir's face and talk some trash.

                        What's more disrespectful, potentially hurting a man badly, or words?

                        Let's say Hendo cuts the same exact promo Lesnar did....the Coors Light, the horseshoe, getting on top of my wife later....you know people would think it was great, nobody would be calling him a "complete clown".

                        Why? Because he has the MMA pedigree, and Brock is viewed a phony wrassler, a "sport" most elitists hate. Worse yet, he's dominating.

                        Brock USED to be a wrestler. Now he's a fighter, and he's doing the same thing fighters do. Get over it.

                        Me get over it? I haven't made a single thread about Brock, it's all the wrestling fans that keep bringing the same subject back up. But, again you earn your keep in MMA, something Brock has yet to do. Hendo has a long legacy of being a great sportsman so of course everyone is not going to get on his back over one foul up. Plus, you fight until the ref stops the fight.

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                        • Steel Mamba
                          Nasty
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 2549

                          #13
                          It's like this, if you have a clean record and happen to run into one problem with the law you're going to get off a lot easier than someone that's starting to build a track record. That's just the way things work and the reason why the two can't even be compared. Brock started his shinanigans before he was even established in the sport.

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                          • Warner2BruceTD
                            2011 Poster Of The Year
                            • Mar 2009
                            • 26142

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Steel Mamba
                            Lesnar just gave Carwin reason to bring it up. There's nothing to bring up if he doesn't do what he did. Whatever way you cut it Lesnar is taking the easy route and nothing will change until he decides to take the harder route.
                            Explain to me how what Lesnar does in any different than what many other fighters do. And don't use the words "pro wrestling".

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                            • Warner2BruceTD
                              2011 Poster Of The Year
                              • Mar 2009
                              • 26142

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Steel Mamba
                              It's like this, if you have a clean record and happen to run into one problem with the law you're going to get off a lot easier than someone that's starting to build a track record. That's just the way things work and the reason why the two can't even be compared. Brock started his shinanigans before he was even established in the sport.
                              Examples, please.

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