MF'in Dan Hardy speakin the truth

[Steel Mamba]

Dan Hardy backing what I said not along ago about wrestling & MMA. The big thing that frustrates me about some of the wrestlers in the UFC is that they don't want to fight, all they want to do is wrestle, and as such they're not doing anything significant from an MMA perspective since wrestling is not a direct offensive tool.

Here's what Dan Hardy recently said about this same topic

"In interviews this week, I've been asked if another two losses in addition to my loss to George St-Pierre and Paul Daley's defeat to Josh Koscheck, shows that the Rough House needs to bring in new wrestling coaches in order to be successful in the UFC ... Rather than saying 'oh, these guys can't wrestle', I think the problem is there's beginning to be too much wrestling in UFC Octagon, not too little of it in the gym. There are a lot of people out there calling themselves 'UFC fighters' who are nothing of the kind. In the UFC, you should go for finishes. You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either. But there's guys out there who just want to use wrestling to hold a stalemate for 15 minutes, without ever risking going for ground and pounds or attempting submissions. This isn't 'cheating within the rules' – it is actually against the rules. 'Timidity' is outlawed in the Unified MMA rules and what better describes the act of holding on to an opponent and waiting for the clock to tick down with no attempt or inclination to do any damage? And that's not the same as saying all UFC bouts have to be kickboxing or Thai boxing matches in order to be entertaining. That's not what I am saying. One of the best fights of the year was George [Sotiropoulos] – who is a friend of mine and a guy I am tipping to win the Lightweight Title next year – beating Joe Stevenson at UFC 110 ... The Athletic Commissions need to look at the scoring and refereeing to stop this from becoming a problem. If a guy is in a dominant position, but not actually doing anything offensive – stand 'em back up. If he is consistently trying to tie the other guy up to avoid actual fighting – warn him and then start taking points. It is supposed to be a fight."

Couldn't agree more, these type of wrestlers are going to ruin MMA. Perfect example, Rashad Evans vs Rampage. Outside of one punch what type of damage does Evans score in that fight? How can a fighter be allowed to hold someone against the cage for such a long period of time without landing any significant damage? The UFC, if they want to be legit, needs to get a hold of this situation and start enforcing stricter rules against clinching with no action. Judging also needs to be adjusted, this isn't a wrestling exhibition, holding someone against the cage for 5 minutes shouldn't count towards anything if no significant damage is being dealt. Those type of rounds should be a draw at best. Right now the judging encourages fighters to clinch and stall which doesn't make any sense. After all it is a fight, so fighting should be expected, right?

[SHOGUN]

I agree with Hardy. There has to be pressure on changing how the judges score fights in the US. With MMA being the new sport of choice for amateur wrestlers, I expect more of this continue.

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

A- FUCKING-MEN.

Fight after fight card after card Im getting sick of it. Refs need to get up in these guys asses much much quicker. These guys are doing the least possible thing they can do to score points and win. Why not just bring in Ricardo Arona and giveaway pillows while theyre at it.

The first takedown of a round..fine.. but after that a takedown with no damage = no points. Tosses, slams etc should still score points but not weak press up against the fence takedown attempts.

Like mentioned I like good ground matches. Sotoropolous and Nate Diaz both had great ground fights against Stephenson.

Refs need to start yellow carding dudes and judges need to start deducting points for stagnation.

[Liquidrob]

The judges are not educated, they think being on top equals winning, pushing someone into a cage equals winning, just brutal

Refs need to step in with the 'wall and stall' cage tactics, Randy Couture lost that fight to Vera, Fancy Pants held Shaolin against the cage for almost the entire fight, the list goes on and on

Its ok if this guys want to wrestler, but rewarding them makes them keep doing it

I hate when a guy shoots a takedown with 10 seconds left and the commentator says 'well, that probably won him the round'

I loved when Bas beat Randleman from the bottom back in the day, you rarely ever see that in the US, in Japan you can still do it because they see it as a fight, this sport is becoming tough to watch because of certain fighters not wanting to fight

Its funny when a guy goes for 10 takedowns and gets stopped every time, but gets 1 at the end of a round and 'wins' the round, its point fighting, not fighting

[Kuzzy Powers]

While I do agree with him its impossible to limit how much of one discipline a fighter can perform in the octagon.. if we were going to do that it really wouldnt be MMA. Its just a crock, because when good wrestlers go away from their craft and decide to bang, they're ridiculed for not using the most effective game plans for their skillset. So wheres the middle ground there? I dont think there is any.

[Kuzzy Powers]

The judges are not educated, they think being on top equals winning, pushing someone into a cage equals winning, just brutal

Refs need to step in with the 'wall and stall' cage tactics, Randy Couture lost that fight to Vera, Fancy Pants held Shaolin against the cage for almost the entire fight, the list goes on and on

Its ok if this guys want to wrestler, but rewarding them makes them keep doing it

I hate when a guy shoots a takedown with 10 seconds left and the commentator says 'well, that probably won him the round'

I loved when Bas beat Randleman from the bottom back in the day, you rarely ever see that in the US, in Japan you can still do it because they see it as a fight, this sport is becoming tough to watch because of certain fighters not wanting to fight

Its funny when a guy goes for 10 takedowns and gets stopped every time, but gets 1 at the end of a round and 'wins' the round, its point fighting, not fighting

Judges just have no clue whats going on. This is a new, fresh sport being judged by old men who just arent educated enough in the sport to really know how to judge it. It seems to me fighters are not rewarded AT ALL for stuffing take downs or throwing leg kicks.. 2 very important factors in any MMA fight.

[Liquidrob]

There needs to be more draws, I know most fans hate it, but some fights are just draws

Also, yellow cards or real point deductions for doing nothing, control with no damage shouldnt be winning

[Liquidrob]

While I do agree with him its impossible to limit how much of one discipline a fighter can perform in the octagon.. if we were going to do that it really wouldnt be MMA. Its just a crock, because when good wrestlers go away from their craft and decide to bang, they're ridiculed for not using the most effective game plans for their skillset. So wheres the middle ground there? I dont think there is any.

its not really telling wrestlers to 'stand and bang', its a question of finishing fights or trying to finish, same can be said for strikers who run away and throw a couple jabs and never engage, those guys are just as bad IMO, fighters who dont fight take away from the spirit of what the sport is about, fighting

[Kuzzy Powers]

There needs to be more draws, I know most fans hate it, but some fights are just draws

Also, yellow cards or real point deductions for doing nothing, control with no damage shouldnt be winning

Even if it doesnt always result in a draw... judges need to stop pussyfooting around 10-10 rounds. My only problem is once it starts happening judges will be too quick to use it as a cop out in close rounds and just throw out too many 10-10's.

Judging is a tricky subject.. I fear its an issue that will never be fixed in MMA.

[Kuzzy Powers]

its not really telling wrestlers to 'stand and bang', its a question of finishing fights or trying to finish, same can be said for strikers who run away and throw a couple jabs and never engage, those guys are just as bad IMO, fighters who dont fight take away from the spirit of what the sport is about, fighting

What is the best way for a wrestler to finish a fight tho? Essentially their sport is based on a points system.. finishing isnt really a factor.

[Liquidrob]

What is the best way for a wrestler to finish a fight tho? Essentially their sport is based on a points system.. finishing isnt really a factor.

ground and pound, slams, learn subs, etc...

this isnt wrestling, it is MMA, you don't reward someone for control, I don't blame these guys though because they are 'winning' with the way it is judged and the rules enforced

If a wrestler takes down a guys and holds him without doing damage you dont score the round for him, its simple, once people start losing they stop doing it, right now there is no reason for them to

If the guy on the bottom is doing more damage and attempting subs he should get the round like Bas vs Randleman

If someone is holding a guy against the cage and can't get the takedown than it will be a 10-10 round or if the guy on the cage is doing more work with knees and elbows he can get the round, plus the ref needs to step in

Chael is a good example of a wrestler doing work instead of holding, there are a bunch of guys also, but if Hardy is talking about the GSP fight than he is off some because GSP was going for finishes and being active

Look at the Randy vs Vera fight, Vera won that fight, no way he won the fight IMO

[Liquidrob]

Also, Pitbull vs Joe Warren should have been a draw at the worst

Pitbull should have had a 10-8 first round, Warren could have been giving two 10-9 rounds for the 2nd and 3rd

[Kuzzy Powers]

ground and pound, slams, learn subs, etc...

this isnt wrestling, it is MMA, you don't reward someone for control, I don't blame these guys though because they are 'winning' with the way it is judged and the rules enforced

If a wrestler takes down a guys and holds him without doing damage you dont score the round for him, its simple, once people start losing they stop doing it, right now there is no reason for them to

If the guy on the bottom is doing more damage and attempting subs he should get the round like Bas vs Randleman

If someone is holding a guy against the cage and can't get the takedown than it will be a 10-10 round or if the guy on the cage is doing more work with knees and elbows he can get the round, plus the ref needs to step in

Chael is a good example of a wrestler doing work instead of holding, there are a bunch of guys also, but if Hardy is talking about the GSP fight than he is off some because GSP was going for finishes and being active

Look at the Randy vs Vera fight, Vera won that fight, no way he won the fight IMO

But theres no way you can score the round for opposite way.. and its also going to become difficult for wrestlers to come to grips with the idea of essentially "dominating" a round and not winning it. The only real way is to set some kind of standard in standing fighters up.. if you're unactive for more then a 10 seconds the fight must go back to its feet. But a lot of the time its going to come down to refs discretion, which is tough.

And to be fair, I dont really see Chael trying to finish fights either.. he seemed pretty content and go to a decision in each of his last 5 wins.

[Liquidrob]

But theres no way you can score the round for opposite way.. and its also going to become difficult for wrestlers to come to grips with the idea of essentially "dominating" a round and not winning it. The only real way is to set some kind of standard in standing fighters up.. if you're unactive for more then a 10 seconds the fight must go back to its feet. But a lot of the time its going to come down to refs discretion, which is tough.

And to be fair, I dont really see Chael trying to finish fights either.. he seemed pretty content and go to a decision in each of his last 5 wins.

This is not about stand ups, I love ground fighting, but some guys are there not to fight

This doesnt happen in Japan, even with dominate wrestlers because they don't allow it, they don't reward non-active fighters

Just because Chael can't finish Anderson doesnt mean he wasnt trying to hurt him or work, if you watched that fight you know who won those rounds, you can just see it

It wasnt like Mousasi and Mo in a couple of the rounds were Mousasi was clearly out working King Mo from the bottom and won some rounds, the other rounds were Mo though

Its a tough issue to deal with, but MMA in the US is going this way because of the crap judging, the refs and the scoring system

A couple fights off the top of my head that should have gone the other way or a draw at worst and would really set the trend and show fighters what winning are would be

Shaolin vs Fancy Pants
Vera vs Randy
Pit Bull vs Warren

[Liquidrob]

I think the guys who push against the cage are some of the worst offenders, the ref needs to step in when guys are just grinding you against the cage and doing nothing with it

Some fights the ref seperates them and they guy goes right back and pushes him into the cage and does nothing for the entire round, the ref needs to say 'hey asshole, you push him into the cage again and not work you get a point', take that point

Look at guys who grab the cage to stop the takedown, take that point away, it has only happened once in history, Tito vs Rashad