Has the UFC/US MMA Jumped The Shark?

[Liquidrob]

This is not just my normal Zuffa bashing, just thinking out loud again

After the awful event that was UFC 119, it seems like US MMA, the UFC mostly just isnt delivering lately

The sport is at a crucial crossroads, you have wrestlers that do nothing on top and are riding out wins, than you have the stand and bang guys that have no desire to actually engage but would rather run around throwing combo's in the air to 'win'

Its getting harder and harder to find fighters now a days that actually want to fight!

A couple reasons for this IMO, everyone is afraid of a loss because they dont want to get cut, they get told to be 'exciting' but when they go all out and still loss they get cut

The rules, judging and reffing in the US just suck, no way around it, a bunch of uneducated people controlling the action and who 'wins', fighters and coaches are smart, they use the loop holes in the rules for easier ways to win instead of fighting

Fighters are stealing rounds with late takedowns that do nothing, or getting 1 or 2 takedowns where the other guy gets right back up and still winning rounds, refs not enforcing the rules where fighters can stall there way to victory by pressing people against the cage, 'cage control' is a joke and no one can even give an explanation of what it is

thoughts?

[Kuzzy Powers]

The game is evolving and fighters are realizing that winning trumps being exciting. When they're grinding out financially, a win bonus can be very important. Even when we get a case where both fighters are willing to trade (Serra/Lytle), it seemed as if neither wanted to take that extra step and risk losing. I do agree that this is bad for the sport, but its the ever developing culture of the sport.

[Liquidrob]

I mainly focus on the UFC here

Strikeforce has been putting on more exciting fights lately, I think the guys dont worry about getting cut as much for losing, kind of like in Pride, you can lose and still have a job the next day, plus match making as a whole has been better in producing better fights

Bellator has a tournament format, so it works for them, guys are looking to advance and know they are moving up the ladder, I love this format and it moves MMA more into how a sport should be

[SHOGUN]

Absolutely. Unified rules blow dick and the judges are idiots.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I thought this would be the year UFC saw negative growth in PPV business, but it looks like they will eek out growth for the 6th consecutive year.

However, where would they be without Lesnar? His second fight will put them over the top for year #6.

TUF was the golden goose, but nobody cares about TUF anymore, and it hasnt produced a star in many years. It's a star driven business, and they need a new way to create stars, because super charismatic guys like Lesnar, GSP, etc dont always fall in your lap, and even when they do (Sonnen), they still need to win and not self destruct (Sonnen).

It used to be Chuck, Tito, Randy, Ken, Hughes, you had many guys who could pop a number. Right now it's Brock & GSP, with the occassional Rampage or Penn chipping in.

[Steel Mamba]

Lately? How many great cards/fights has the UFC put on since they've purchased Pride? I can count them on one hand, fights in the UFC rarely turn out to be competitive and entertaining matches to watch. You get a lot of highlight reel material, but the Sherk/Dunham type fights are extremely rare.

Pride delivered on better fights through the course of a single year than the UFC has in 5+ years. It's pretty sad and what's even worse is that everyone automatically associates MMA with the UFC. MMA is no longer MMA, it's Ultimate Fighting.

Just had a conversation with my boy about the new EA MMA game that's coming out in which he asked what fighters were going to be on it. When I told him it's mainly StrikeForce guys his response was simply "ugh", and thus all interest in the game was killed for him.

The UFC has marketed their selves as the be all end all of MMA and they're definitely not coming through.

[SuperKevin]

I'll be honest. I lost pretty much all interest in MMA.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'll be honest. I lost pretty much all interest in MMA.

And this is why you are seeing 200k buyrates sneaking through these days. There are a lot of SuperKevin's who have jumped off the wagon.

This leveling off was going to come eventually, because there was some fad aspect to this. The question, is how many of those fans will they keep?

I discount the Brock numbers to some extent, because he's a mainstream attraction, much like Mayweather or Tyson for boxing. The real health/popularity of the UFC is something like Cro Cop/Muuur, and how far it bottoms out.

[SuperKevin]

My issue with the UFC is how they have seemed to run out of capable fighters. Do they really expect us to keep paying for rematches?

[Kuzzy Powers]

Strikeforce has been putting on more exciting fights lately, I think the guys dont worry about getting cut as much for losing, kind of like in Pride, you can lose and still have a job the next day, plus match making as a whole has been better in producing better fights

I disagree that Strikeforce has been putting on more exiting fights lately, the Houston card was a disaster. Fedor/Werdum card was decent, but the main event lasted 3 mins. The Lawler/Sobral card was average at best.. and that was with a couple of potentially really exciting fights on the card too. I did enjoy Heavy Artillery a lot tho.

I do agree that Strikeforce fighters are less inclined to "fight smart" in fear of being cut tho.

[Kuzzy Powers]

My issue with the UFC is how they have seemed to run out of capable fighters. Do they really expect us to keep paying for rematches?

Rematches are one of the biggest sellers in fighting tho. So, yes.

[Liquidrob]

I disagree that Strikeforce has been putting on more exiting fights lately, the Houston card was a disaster. Fedor/Werdum card was decent, but the main event lasted 3 mins. The Lawler/Sobral card was average at best.. and that was with a couple of potentially really exciting fights on the card too. I did enjoy Heavy Artillery a lot tho.

I do agree that Strikeforce fighters are less inclined to "fight smart" in fear of being cut tho.

The Houston card was a disaster? There were some good fights on that card, just because who they wanted to win didnt, doesnt mean the show wasnt good

Feijao vs King Mo was a big time fight, action all the way, KJ turned Gurgel's head into a pinata

I'm talking about good fun fights here to keep the fan interested in the sport, Strikeforce has done that besides maybe the Nashville card which played like the normal UFC card

[Liquidrob]

Lately? How many great cards/fights has the UFC put on since they've purchased Pride? I can count them on one hand, fights in the UFC rarely turn out to be competitive and entertaining matches to watch. You get a lot of highlight reel material, but the Sherk/Dunham type fights are extremely rare.

Pride delivered on better fights through the course of a single year than the UFC has in 5+ years. It's pretty sad and what's even worse is that everyone automatically associates MMA with the UFC. MMA is no longer MMA, it's Ultimate Fighting.

Just had a conversation with my boy about the new EA MMA game that's coming out in which he asked what fighters were going to be on it. When I told him it's mainly StrikeForce guys his response was simply "ugh", and thus all interest in the game was killed for him.

The UFC has marketed their selves as the be all end all of MMA and they're definitely not coming through.

I was being nice with the 'lately' comment, but you are 100% correct, the UFC has sold the public on being the top dog, the flagship of MMA and they have failed to deliver an exciting product, the fad fans they have picked up will soon be gone

Like Warner said, Brock is the x-factor and the UFC should kiss his feet, without him this would be considered a 'bad year'

Get ready for BROCKTOBER!

[Irish]

I was thinking this as I was leaving BWW after 119. I was reminiscing about recent UFC fights and I always remember how disappointed I have been by the cards. The most recent ones I really enjoyed are the Sonnen-Silva main event and Shogun-Machida fights. Recently I have started betting with my friends on fights in order to make things interesting.

I noticed when I watch that these guys dont look like they are in a fight. Everyone is too scared or too tactical to fight. They wait for either a perfect situation or just control the other guy and push the pace. They need guys who will go in and just fight the other guy. Thats what the majority of the new fans want to see and if that doesnt happen the huge increase in popularity will decrease.

Bellator usually has great fights but my lack of knowledge of the fighters makes it less interesting.

Also what W2BTD said about lack of stars, and Steel Mamba saying the UFC has replaced all of MMA in the general publics eyes hurts it.

I think the final nail in the coffin for MMA as we know it could end once ESPN and UFC agree to work together. Most of the littler orgs. wouldnt be able to compete with the exposure ESPN could bring (creating bigger stars, more eyes on UFC) and would probably go die out. And UFC in charge of everything MMA, I can only expect these boring fights to get worse and worse, since guys don't want to lose their jobs and not make good money.

[Kuzzy Powers]

The Houston card was a disaster? There were some good fights on that card, just because who they wanted to win didnt, doesnt mean the show wasnt good

Feijao vs King Mo was a big time fight, action all the way, KJ turned Gurgel's head into a pinata

I'm talking about good fun fights here to keep the fan interested in the sport, Strikeforce has done that besides maybe the Nashville card which played like the normal UFC card

Lashley/Griggs was absolutely abysmal.

Noons/Gurgel was pretty good, if you like dudes getting boxed the fuck up cause they refuse to use the strength of their game. @ Gurgel.

Kennedy/Souza was a huge let down.. they fought exactly how you dont want them to fight, not to lose.

King Mo/Feijao was pretty solid too.

Disaster may have been a bit strong, but the card was definitely a let down.