The Historical Significance of Brock at #1 (by whistleblower from the UG)

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  • Liquidrob
    Izzy is a bum
    • Feb 2009
    • 11785

    The Historical Significance of Brock at #1 (by whistleblower from the UG)

    Check it out, this is a thread from a poster on the UG named whistleblower

    Brock was the first UFC fighter in over 12.5 years to become the consensus #1 HW in MMA. In fact, since the end of 1997, the UFC had not had a single HW fighting in its octagon who was either ranked #1 or generally recognized as the absolute best (i.e., the one who would have been favored to beat every other HW, or fighter, in the sport at that point).

    After 1997, both the reigning UFC HW Champion in Randy and the reigning 2-time HW Tournament Champion in Mark Kerr (who was generally considered the best HW in NHB then) left the UFC during their reigns for Japan - and since then, no UFC HW titleholder, and no UFC HW at all, had ever reclaimed that top spot (whether in terms of rankings or being considered the best), until 2010.

    It wasn't just Randy and Kerr, either. In fact, after the end of '97, EVERY single current and previous UFC HW/Open-weight champion had left the UFC, mostly for Japan - Randy, Kerr, Mo Smith, Coleman, Severn, Ken, and Royce - which highlighted an overall exodus of top talent from the U.S. NHB scene, especially at HW, and marked the beginning of an increasing shift of NHB's epicenter to Japan (especially with the emergence of Pride).

    The end of 1997 was the last time that being a UFC HW champion of any kind had meant any kind of singular supremacy in the sport.

    The UFC's HW titleholders since Randy and Kerr, and up until Brock-Carwin, had been Bas, Randleman, Randy, Barnett, Ricco, Sylvia, Mir, Arlovski, Sylvia, Randy, Nog, and Mir - and none of them were #1 or considered the best at that time. Actually, the most highly ranked and regarded UFC HW titleholders in that 12-year stretch had been ranked #2 at best and considered second-best at best (e.g., Barnett and Nog), while most were not even as high as that.

    It took the combination of Brock Lesnar, a suddenly revitalized UFC HW division, the UFC's expanded brand prestige and influence, and ultimately, perennial #1 Fedor's decisive upset loss - who had previously monopolized the top spot for over 7 years straight as the universal #1 - to finally reverse over 12 years of accumulated history against HW supremacy in the UFC.

    The UFC's recent HW revival has not been limited to just #1, though.

    In the last couple of years, the UFC has also reversed the trend of most of the previous decade where, in addition to not having the #1 HW, the UFC perennially did not have most of the top-10 HW's in MMA - where the majority had instead perennially been in Pride up until 2007 (and the #1 HW in Pride had also been the universally #1 HW in MMA for the entire decade up to that point). Meanwhile, the UFC's own HW class was still not one of its premier divisions until 2008-2009, with the emergence of new monsters like Brock, Carwin, Cain, and Dos Santos.

    The Brock-Carwin fight formally finalized an historic shift in the division in that, in the wake of Fedor's loss (and with an improved UFC HW division), it was now known that - for the first time since the end of '97 - the winner of a HW fight in the UFC, the UFC HW champion, would be the consensus #1 HW in MMA.

    With Brock becoming #1, this was now also the first time in Zuffa history - again the first time in over 12 years, and the first time since the UFC had more than 2 weight classes - that the UFC has the consensus #1's in every single one of its weight classes.

    (Where HW had been the longest hold-out - while 205 had now been consolidated in the UFC after the Pride purchase, and an undisputed #1 crowned there since 2007-2008 - Anderson has been the dominant #1 at 185 since 2006, 170 has been the UFC's domain with the #1 spot monopolized since Hughes-Sakurai, and LW was claimed after the UFC brought the division back and BJ Penn came back down to it and became the consensus #1 in 2008.)

    Another historic milestone that Brock represents is that he was also the first HW in over a decade, since Kerr, to become the new consensus #1 without having to face and beat - or at least beat up (a la Igor over Kerr) - anyone who was even arguably #1 or considered the single absolute best at the time.

    (Where, unlike Brock - before him, Fedor, Nog, Coleman, and Igor had all had to face, outfight, and go through the previous #1 to become #1 themselves.)

    Another very telling fact is that Brock was already named #1 at HW on some rankings, including arguably the two most prominent ones in MMAWeekly and Sherdog - immediately in the week following Fedor's loss, even BEFORE his fight with Carwin. Which was the first time in MMA history that a fighter - in any weight class - had ever ascended to the top spot without fighting, let alone winning, a single fight in virtually a year.

    That in itself speaks to the power and influence of the UFC brand name now - and even just the sheer nominal force of its title. (Even though the UFC's title at HW had not signified being #1 or the best in over 12 years.) The rankings just could not wait to crown the official UFC champion as their new #1.

    (Where, while most fighters usually drop in the rankings after that kind of inactivity, Brock not only did not drop, but rose - and not only rose, but rose as high as a fighter could possibly go - which was completely unprecedented. So not only did Brock not have to fight the previous #1 to become #1 - Brock did not even have to fight at all for a year to rise to #1, because of his formally retained position as the champion of the preeminent brand.)

    Another interesting fact to note, however, is that when Brock first became UFC champion after beating Randy - going into 2009, he was not even generally ranked top-5 yet, and not ranked as high as #2 on even a SINGLE major ranking, despite already being UFC champion. Which goes to show just how far the perception of the UFC's HW division and its title had come in just a year and a half, and even during Brock's reign itself.

    (Where even up through the beginning of Brock's own reign, the UFC HW title had not traditionally defined any preeminent status in the division.)

    But in any case, regardless of the history and the established precedent it has defied - Brock becoming #1 reflected the new reality that just being the UFC HW champion in itself will almost automatically be enough to make someone the consensus #1 from now on, with Brock serving as the new starting-point - following the Fedor loss and cemented with his win over Carwin - which will then follow on to whoever beats Brock, and so on.

    Brock has made history, reversed history, and been a significant historical exception in more ways than one. But ultimately, in addition to embodying the ultimate brand power and influence of the UFC now, the most lastingly significant consequence of all will be that - after over a 12-year absence during its 17-year history - Brock has finally brought the ultimate symbol of HW supremacy back to where it originated: To the UFC and its title.
    Liquidrob's Top 10 Fighters Rankings


    The 10 Fighters Who Changed The Game

  • SHOGUN
    4 WR 1 RB 0 TE. 24/7/365.
    • Jul 2009
    • 11416

    #2
    Good read.

     
    "Sometimes I just want to be with my family and watch movie and eat some popcorn. But when I step on the mat I know there is no other place I'd rather be." - Marcelo Garcia

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    • Primetime
      Thank You Prince
      • Nov 2008
      • 17526

      #3
      Great read. Good insight from whistleblower.

      Comment

      • Warner2BruceTD
        2011 Poster Of The Year
        • Mar 2009
        • 26142

        #4
        Oregon just went to #1 by not playing, too.

        I don't understand the point of this. Fedor lost to a bum, so of course the #2 guy would naturally move to #1. If Fedor had lost to Overeem, Overeem would be the concensus #1 right now. Werdum wasnt even a top 10 guy when he beat Fedor.

        To top it off, Brock ended up winning his next fight anyway.

        Brock is #1 be default. I don't think anyone thinks he's a dominant heavy like Fedor was. There is no dominant heavy right now. But you cant make an argument for anyone else. It has nothing to do with Zuffa mind control, it has everything to do with process of elimination. The author writes a lot of words to get to the same bottom line I can get to in one sentance:

        Brock is #1 because nobody else can be.

        Big fucking deal.

        Comment

        • Liquidrob
          Izzy is a bum
          • Feb 2009
          • 11785

          #5
          Umm, Werdum was in the top 10
          Liquidrob's Top 10 Fighters Rankings


          The 10 Fighters Who Changed The Game

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          • Warner2BruceTD
            2011 Poster Of The Year
            • Mar 2009
            • 26142

            #6
            But in any case, regardless of the history and the established precedent it has defied - Brock becoming #1 reflected the new reality that just being the UFC HW champion in itself will almost automatically be enough to make someone the consensus #1 from now on, with Brock serving as the new starting-point - following the Fedor loss and cemented with his win over Carwin - which will then follow on to whoever beats Brock, and so on.
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

            I also disagree with the above.

            If Fedor were to avenge his Werdum loss, and then beat Overeem, he would be the undisputed #1 regardless of what Brock or anyone else in the UFC does.

            Comment

            • Warner2BruceTD
              2011 Poster Of The Year
              • Mar 2009
              • 26142

              #7
              Originally posted by Liquidrob
              Umm, Werdum was in the top 10
              C'mon rob, he was coming off getting humiliated by Dos Santos, a win over a jobber (Mike Kyle) and a decision over Bigfoot.

              He may have been a fringe top 10 guy at the time, but you get the point. Nobody thought of Werdum as a top level guy.

              Comment

              • Warner2BruceTD
                2011 Poster Of The Year
                • Mar 2009
                • 26142

                #8
                Werdum was 9th in the last sherdog ranking before he beat Fedor. Ahead of Bigfoot (who he just beat), AA, Barnett, Nelson, Rogers, Rothwell.

                Aside from Barnett who was downgraded for being inactive, check out that neighborhood of fighter he was ranked near.

                Like I said, fringe top 10 guy. I'm sure he was on the outside looking in on a few other lists at the time.

                So again, Fedor lost to a fringe guy, so of course #2 moves up to #1. That's just logical. Has nothing to do with this insinuation of Zuffa media bias.

                Comment

                • Liquidrob
                  Izzy is a bum
                  • Feb 2009
                  • 11785

                  #9
                  You're naive Warner which is surprising, just like when Matt Serra beat GSP, he went to number 1, he wasnt even a in the top 10, probably not even top 20 back than

                  Also, you went from, Werdum is a bum who wasn't in the top 10, to now a 'fringe' top 10 guy which he wasnt, he was top 10, fringe means nothing, in the top 10 means in the top 10 if every major site had him there

                  Edgar was in that range also like Werdum, not going to look to hard, but he was around 7 or 8, went right to 1 after beating Penn, Gil beat Aoki who was 2, Penn only drops to 2 with a loss and Gil only goes to 3

                  Penn has lost 2 in a row and still is in the 3 and 4 spots
                  Liquidrob's Top 10 Fighters Rankings


                  The 10 Fighters Who Changed The Game

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                  • Warner2BruceTD
                    2011 Poster Of The Year
                    • Mar 2009
                    • 26142

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Liquidrob
                    You're naive Warner which is surprising, just like when Matt Serra beat GSP, he went to number 1, he wasnt even a in the top 10, probably not even top 20 back than

                    Also, you went from, Werdum is a bum who wasn't in the top 10, to now a 'fringe' top 10 guy which he wasnt, he was top 10, fringe means nothing, in the top 10 means in the top 10 if every major site had him there

                    Edgar was in that range also like Werdum, not going to look to hard, but he was around 7 or 8, went right to 1 after beating Penn, Gil beat Aoki who was 2, Penn only drops to 2 with a loss and Gil only goes to 3

                    Penn has lost 2 in a row and still is in the 3 and 4 spots
                    So are you suggesting that Werdum should be #1? That's crazy. I can accept Fedor staying at #1 more than Werdum. And if Serra moved up to #1 after that upset, that was wrong, too.

                    But that would be my next question to either you or this whistleblower guy:

                    If not Lesnar, than who? It has to be Lesnar by default. There is nobody else. Has nothing to do with Zuffa media bias. If Overeem wasnt opening cans, and Werdum had a better resume and wasnt a back of the pack heavy when he beat Fedor, then maybe you could argue someone else. But you can't. Nobody stands out, so if #1 loses, obviously you bump up #2. Just like Oregon this week. Werdum is Wisconsin.

                    Comment

                    • Liquidrob
                      Izzy is a bum
                      • Feb 2009
                      • 11785

                      #11
                      Wedum needs a better resume?

                      He has some the of the better wins at HW besides Fedor and Nog, Werdum should be ranked number 1
                      Liquidrob's Top 10 Fighters Rankings


                      The 10 Fighters Who Changed The Game

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                      • Liquidrob
                        Izzy is a bum
                        • Feb 2009
                        • 11785

                        #12
                        It will be very hard for a non UFC HW to get the number 1 spot again

                        If Brock keeps winning he will remain number 1, if Cain wins he will be number 1 and is undefeated, if JDS wins he has never lost in the UFC and only 1 loss a long time ago, if Carwin comes back strong and beats any of these guys he will be number 1, the only way a UFC HW wouldnt be ranked number 1 if a guy like Nelson or Mir win it, but I doubt they will even get the shot, it will be in a rotation of Lesnar, Cain, JDS and Carwin, or a undefeated HW prospect that came up

                        Some outside shots would be Fedor of course, but the loss to Werdum will always sit with people and is its Cain they will say Cain is undefeated, maybe beating Werdum, Overeem and Barnett he can do it if a UFC HW losses to someone like Mir, but I don't see Fedor winning or even taking all those fights

                        Overeem could win K-1 (it shouldnt, but it has some influence), beats Werdum, Fedor and Big Foot or Barnett, The Reem hype will be out of control and he might split the vote and create some debate because the majority of his losses were at LHW, plus that was Overeem, not Ubereem
                        Liquidrob's Top 10 Fighters Rankings


                        The 10 Fighters Who Changed The Game

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                        • SuperKevin
                          War Hero
                          • Dec 2009
                          • 8759

                          #13
                          If someone posted something like that on here he'd be blasted with at least 10 :didntread:

                          Comment

                          • EmpireWF
                            Giants in the Super Bowl
                            • Mar 2009
                            • 24082

                            #14
                            Some of the better wins at heavyweight? He has wins over Gonzaga (2x), Overeem, Vera, Big Foot and Fedor.

                            JDS has wins over Roy Nelson, Gonzaga, Yvel and Cro Cop.

                            Brock has wins over Couture, Mir and Carwin.

                            Velasquez has wins over Big Nog, Rothwell and Kongo.

                            ---------------

                            I'm a believer in a man off a loss cannot be #1 so Fedor is 2 at best.

                            Let's be honest...record wise, none of these guys is head and shoulders above the others. There is no more Fedor or Big Nog crushing every legit top heavyweight. They're scattered.

                            After Saturday, the undisputed #1 heavyweight will be crowned though.

                            If Overeem does fight and beat Werdum and Fedor...there's no doubt he splits the votes for 1 with Brock/Cain/JDS


                            Comment

                            • KINGOFOOTBALL
                              Junior Member
                              • Feb 2009
                              • 10343

                              #15
                              I can see Brock beating Fedor and Overeem.

                              I see Cain getting ass raped by Overeem or Fedor.

                              Yet I can see Cain beating Brock.

                              Therefore Werdum is no.1
                              Best reason to have a license.

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