I feel bad for Brock

[Liquidrob]

I love how all the MMA guys are dismissing him after the loss because he was a pro wrestler.
You can hate on Lesnar all you want, but the guy gave UFC numbers they never could have gotten without him.

thats not even his point

Brock's fighting has little to do with pro wrestling, he was a NCAA champ, just like all the other who suceeded in college before him, brock doesnt represent pro wrestling at all

the pro wrestling fans seemed to use him to validate pro wrestling which is strange in itself

[dave]

the pro wrestling fans seemed to use him to validate pro wrestling which is strange in itself

I don't really think he validates pro wrestling.
No matter what he does in UFC/MMA, people are not going to validate pro wrestling.
And, in my opinion, the only WWE guy who could pull off what Lesnar did is Lesnar. The rest of the WWE entertainers are just that, entertainers.

[Liquidrob]

oh, and I'm not talking about you pro wrestling goofballs, the other one's

[Steel Mamba]

I love how all the MMA guys are dismissing him after the loss because he was a pro wrestler.
You can hate on Lesnar all you want, but the guy gave UFC numbers they never could have gotten without him.

After the loss? I dismissed him from the very start. I don't have anything against Lesnar, but he lost me when he brought the whole wrestling gimmick with him, unlike guys like Lashley who left the WWE stuff at the door. But, that's who he is tho so I have no place knocking the guy, the bottom line is that MMA is a whole other beast. Being athletically gifted and having a good wrestling background is not enough. Which gets back to another long debate we had here about wrestling pedigrees. Just because you have the better am wrestling accolades does not automatically make you the better wrestler in MMA. Point proven again when Brock failed to out-wrestle the smaller Cain.

So, like Rob said Brock had no business being in the position that the UFC put him in, at least not yet. The only reason why he was given such a great opportunity is due to his name. Just like Kimbo Slice, but unlike him Brock did not enter into the sport humbly so it is what it is.

Yeah he brought numbers, but why should that make any difference to me? That has nothing to do with fighting. I wouldn't say that he brought numbers that the UFC could never get either.

[Warner2BruceTD]

MINOWAMAN wants a piece of Brock, to defend the honor of prowres.

BOOK IT

[Steel Mamba]

thats not even his point

Brock's fighting has little to do with pro wrestling, he was a NCAA champ, just like all the other who suceeded in college before him, brock doesnt represent pro wrestling at all

the pro wrestling fans seemed to use him to validate pro wrestling which is strange in itself

def it was pretty ridiculous and all the talk about Brock being the #1 over Fedor when he first won the title was just insane. There was just too much hype and too many people billing this guy as unbeatable.

[dave]

oh, and I'm not talking about you pro wrestling goofballs, the other one's

Say what you will, but you love pro wrestling too.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Hype is great for gambling, because lost in all of this was the fact Cain was an underdog last night. I got him at +165, which is insane, and won a nice chunk of cash. Easiest bet I've ever made.

Look, Brock is a super athlete with crazy genetics, able to carry 265 on a massive frame with crazy strength. His weakness is now clear - hit him in the face. But he's still an upper echelon guy in his division and a handful for just about anyone to deal with. He may have been overhyped, but the people who were waiting for him to lose to say "I told you so!" Are going a bit too far in the critisms. He should retire? Go back to prowres? He's a bum? C'mon. Let's get some perspective. Everyone gets worked at some point in this sport.

And from the non elitist standpoint, his fights are fun to watch and he brings an energy few do. The guy is great for MMA. I had a shit ton of fun watching that fight at a movie theatre with a good mix of casuals and hardcores.

[Liquidrob]

He is not a bum, I don't think he should retire, not talking rankings, I say he is like the 8th to 10th best HW right now just off his wrestling and being a big time athlete, if he doesnt improve he will lose a lot more if they don't protect him and just feed him Frank Mir over and over

I think he might retire because he doesnt like to get hit and he can make money elsewhere, plus he doesnt even need money, guy lives off the land

[EmpireWF]

The only reason why he was given such a great opportunity is due to his name. Just like Kimbo Slice, but unlike him Brock did not enter into the sport humbly so it is what it is.

It's no secret the reason he was pushed so much was because he was a draw. So what? All the power to Brock for being able to cash in on his name and draw several 1 million buyrates in the UFC, helping to crush the rest of the PPV business.

And how can you say he didn't enter the sport humbly? He started out against an old Korean judo guy. He wanted to test himself against good competition so he went straight to the UFC. He didn't want to waste time fighting Jason Guida or Bob Sapp.

Fact is Brock is a good fighter. Just like everyone else, he has his own weakness. Think of it like this, minus the time off from the disease, he's been training for the better part of two-plus years. That's after taking about six years off from any legitimate combat sports training.


The ONLY reason I would say Brock is considering his future in the sport is because he has shown a history as an adult of walking away. When he realized his future in pro wrestling would consist of destroying his body and all that other shit, he walked away. When he could have pursued a career in the NFL, he walked away because there was no money in being a young NFL hopeful. Now we'll see whether he truly wants to be known as a great fighter or not.

I think after this calms down, they get him back in the cage by the summer against Mir for the payday. Whether Lesnar truly does whats best for his fight future and goes balls out to improve his striking, who knows.

I hope so because he's great for the sport.

Of course if for whatever reason he's thinking about stepping back into bed with McMahon and do a lighter schedule....I would say no fucking way he's doing it, but crazier things have happened.

[Steel Mamba]

It's no secret the reason he was pushed so much was because he was a draw. So what? All the power to Brock for being able to cash in on his name and draw several 1 million buyrates in the UFC, helping to crush the rest of the PPV business.

And how can you say he didn't enter the sport humbly? He started out against an old Korean judo guy. He wanted to test himself against good competition so he went straight to the UFC. He didn't want to waste time fighting Jason Guida or Bob Sapp.

Fact is Brock is a good fighter. Just like everyone else, he has his own weakness. Think of it like this, minus the time off from the disease, he's been training for the better part of two-plus years. That's after taking about six years off from any legitimate combat sports training.


The ONLY reason I would say Brock is considering his future in the sport is because he has shown a history as an adult of walking away. When he realized his future in pro wrestling would consist of destroying his body and all that other shit, he walked away. When he could have pursued a career in the NFL, he walked away because there was no money in being a young NFL hopeful. Now we'll see whether he truly wants to be known as a great fighter or not.

I think after this calms down, they get him back in the cage by the summer against Mir for the payday. Whether Lesnar truly does whats best for his fight future and goes balls out to improve his striking, who knows.

I hope so because he's great for the sport.

Of course if for whatever reason he's thinking about stepping back into bed with McMahon and do a lighter schedule....I would say no fucking way he's doing it, but crazier things have happened.

I defended Kimbo when everyone was trash talking him for being in the spotlight and I'll do the exact same for Brock. Obviously if those type of opportunities are available you go for it. That's not my complaint. The issue here is/was all the fans crowning this guy with less than 2 years training in the sport. There were tons of people putting a guy with 3 or 4 wins over the likes of Fedor. That's the problem. So when that's the public perception, yes I want someone like Cain to come along and knock people back into reality.

Yes he's an amazing athlete and has accomplished a lot in a short time, but that minimal training experience is also the reason as to why he's not ready to face the level of competition that he has. I agree that his fights are exciting, but I don't know if I want to pay $50 to see someone fight who responds to being punched the way he does. He has a lot of potential, but he needs more time.


edit:

Also, what's great for the sport are dedicated athletes with enough training and experience to represent the sport well. With that said I don't know if Brock barrel rolling across the cage or turning around and running are great for the sport. If he's questioning the WWE thing then it's time to move on. If he's serious and wants to continue to perfect his abilities then I'll have all the respect for him.

[Liquidrob]

Being athletically gifted and having a good wrestling background is not enough. Which gets back to another long debate we had here about wrestling pedigrees. Just because you have the better am wrestling accolades does not automatically make you the better wrestler in MMA. Point proven again when Brock failed to out-wrestle the smaller Cain.

Wrestling pedigree is still important, I said before though which most people didnt agree with, Cain is a better wrestler than Brock

Cain just couldnt get past Konrad a couple times in college in the finals, Brock and Cain both were great college wrestlers, but Cain went from college to training MMA

Brock hasnt wrestled for like 10 years, going to the WWE hurt him, it didnt help him, you just dont wrestler for 10 years and still wrestle at a national champion level right away, you have to train it, Brock would have been a monster coming out of college like Cain, Konrad, Bader, etc...but the money was to good in pro wrestling to pass up

[EmpireWF]

I defended Kimbo when everyone was trash talking him for being in the spotlight and I'll do the exact same for Brock. Obviously if those type of opportunities are available you go for it. That's not my complaint. The issue here is/was all the fans crowning this guy with less than 2 years training in the sport. There were tons of people putting a guy with 3 or 4 wins over the likes of Fedor. That's the problem. So when that's the public perception, yes I want someone like Cain to come along and knock people back into reality.

Yes he's an amazing athlete and has accomplished a lot in a short time, but that minimal training experience is also the reason as to why he's not ready to face the level of competition that he has. I agree that his fights are exciting, but I don't know if I want to pay $50 to see someone fight who responds to being punched the way he does. He has a lot of potential, but he needs more time.


edit:

Also, what's great for the sport are dedicated athletes with enough training and experience to represent the sport well. With that said I don't know if Brock barrel rolling across the cage or turning around and running are great for the sport. If he's questioning the WWE thing then it's time to move on. If he's serious and wants to continue to perfect his abilities then I'll have all the respect for him.

First, who had a problem with Kimbo? I assume the spotlight you mentioned was his EXC main events. I had no problem with that. They were against journeymen heavyweights and brought in tons of eyeballs to MMA. Whether it was the fights with Tank, Thompson or Tuf10, it was good for MMA.

There's no doubt Brock in MMA is good for the sport. Do you think the shows he was on do as good business wise? Who knows how many people ordered, watched their first MMA show because of Brock. No way to tell how many people became fans after watching UFC 81, UFC 87, UFC 91, UFC 100, UFC 116 or even 121. Hell, I'm sure some fans were created because Cain knocked him out.

I don't see one negative result of Brock becoming an MMA fighter like he did.



As for your issue with people proclaiming him #1. They only did after Fedor lost by tap out. Someone had to be #1. If you're ranking, who's #1? A guy who was a borderline top ten heavyweight who subbed Fedor, or the #2 heavyweight behind Fedor?

The UFC pushed him as the best thing since sliced bread because he appeared to be unstoppable. He beat the only man to beat him. He took a pounding from Carwin, didn't quit and ended up submitting him. Who knew he would come out like James Thompson and freak himself out at the first punch?


I will say my jaw was wide open when I saw Velasquez bounce up from those two takedowns like they were nothing. It was insane. There may not be any man alive who can take him down without knocking him loopy.

[Steel Mamba]

First, who had a problem with Kimbo? I assume the spotlight you mentioned was his EXC main events. I had no problem with that. They were against journeymen heavyweights and brought in tons of eyeballs to MMA. Whether it was the fights with Tank, Thompson or Tuf10, it was good for MMA.

There's no doubt Brock in MMA is good for the sport. Do you think the shows he was on do as good business wise? Who knows how many people ordered, watched their first MMA show because of Brock. No way to tell how many people became fans after watching UFC 81, UFC 87, UFC 91, UFC 100, UFC 116 or even 121. Hell, I'm sure some fans were created because Cain knocked him out.

I don't see one negative result of Brock becoming an MMA fighter like he did.



As for your issue with people proclaiming him #1. They only did after Fedor lost by tap out. Someone had to be #1. If you're ranking, who's #1? A guy who was a borderline top ten heavyweight who subbed Fedor, or the #2 heavyweight behind Fedor?

The UFC pushed him as the best thing since sliced bread because he appeared to be unstoppable. He beat the only man to beat him. He took a pounding from Carwin, didn't quit and ended up submitting him. Who knew he would come out like James Thompson and freak himself out at the first punch?


I will say my jaw was wide open when I saw Velasquez bounce up from those two takedowns like they were nothing. It was insane. There may not be any man alive who can take him down without knocking him loopy.

We all know about the criticism Kimbo took for all the pub he received so I won't go into that. Of course Brock brought in a lot of first time viewers, that's a safe assumption, but keep in mind that first impressions are often everything. So is it a good look to have your HW champion running and flipping around the cage? Especially a guy that's being pushed as the best HW fighter and someone who's suppose to be unstoppable. Do you want the guy who you say is the best HW the sport has to offer looking as raw as Brock looks in the cage? Personally I don't think so. I don't think Lesnar is the type of guy that's currently capable of showcasing the best of MMA. I really couldn't imagine the same scenario happening in boxing and that actually growing the sport. With the right marketing you can always bring in viewers, but in sports it takes top caliber talent to actually grow the sport.

You were surprised when Cain bounced back up? Why, when an older and smaller Randy Couture was able to do exactly the same?

[EmpireWF]

We all know about the criticism Kimbo took for all the pub he received so I won't go into that. Of course Brock brought in a lot of first time viewers, that's a safe assumption, but keep in mind that first impressions are often everything. So is it a good look to have your HW champion running and flipping around the cage? Especially a guy that's being pushed as the best HW fighter and someone who's suppose to be unstoppable. Do you want the guy who you say is the best HW the sport has to offer looking as raw as Brock looks in the cage? Personally I don't think so. I don't think Lesnar is the type of guy that's currently capable of showcasing the best of MMA. I really couldn't imagine the same scenario happening in boxing and that actually growing the sport. With the right marketing you can always bring in viewers, but in sports it takes top caliber talent to actually grow the sport.

You were surprised when Cain bounced back up? Why, when an older and smaller Randy Couture was able to do exactly the same?

Didn't say I was surprised. I was impressed by how effortless he made it look.

I don't think any first time PPV buyers or first time MMA watchers left the Cain/Brock fight thinking....damn the former champion looked like a goof rolling around the cage. I will never watch MMA again.

You're looking at his falling over because he was rocked. No big deal.

Everyone knew Brock was raw as a fighter. I don't think anyone said he was a finished product.