Herman: Jiu-Jitsu is Ineffective in MMA

[EmpireWF]

http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/06/14/dave-herman-on-ufc-131-fight-of-the-night-jiu-jitsus-ineffecti/

Thoughts?

[Kuzzy Powers]

I guess he missed BJJ saving Anderson Silva's title reign.

[Liquidrob]

hermans trolling and its working

sidenote: he won his last fight by omaplata

[Kuzzy Powers]

He actually changed his statement to "BJJ doesnt work on me" half way through the interview..

[Liquidrob]

He actually changed his statement to "BJJ doesnt work on me" half way through the interview..

he sent out a tweet or something before his fight, renzo got all pissed

[SHOGUN]

I disagree and I agree at the same time. He's right, the days of someone like Royce Gracie coming in and tapping people left and right off his back is over. MMA has evolved into a top man's game and even in submission grappling you need to learn how to wrestle effectively or you will get left behind.

What skews this line of thought is:

A) You have dozens accomplished wrestlers entering the sport every year while number of elite BJJ guys entering MMA annually could be count on one hand and the wrestlers are more often much better athletes than the BJJ uys.

B) The judging criteria gives almost zero credit for quality submission attempts and punishes you for being in guard despite it being a neutral position.

C) Those same wrestlers are also training BJJ - at the very least submission defense - to become more well-rounded and minimize the holes that a jiu-jitsu guy would try and take advantage of.

The ability to threaten and sweep is paramount, which gets increasingly hard to do in MMA because wrestlers know what to look for, their lifetime of being on the mats gives them excellent base and balance which makes them difficult to sweep, especially if they don't even try to do anything but maintain position/LNP (IE: Lil' Nog/Bader).

But BJJ is still very effective. There are countless recent examples that come to mind, but it's not all submissions.

[Blade]

I disagree and I agree at the same time. He's right, the days of someone like Royce Gracie coming in and tapping people left and right off his back is over. MMA has evolved into a top man's game and even in submission grappling you need to learn how to wrestle effectively or you will get left behind.

What skews this line of thought is:

A) You have dozens accomplished wrestlers entering the sport every year while number of elite BJJ guys entering MMA annually could be count on one hand and the wrestlers are more often much better athletes than the BJJ uys.

B) The judging criteria gives almost zero credit for quality submission attempts and punishes you for being in guard despite it being a neutral position.

C) Those same wrestlers are also training BJJ - at the very least submission defense - to become more well-rounded and minimize the holes that a jiu-jitsu guy would try and take advantage of.

The ability to threaten and sweep is paramount, which gets increasingly hard to do in MMA because wrestlers know what to look for, their lifetime of being on the mats gives them excellent base and balance which makes them difficult to sweep, especially if they don't even try to do anything but maintain position/LNP (IE: Lil' Nog/Bader).

But BJJ is still very effective. There are countless recent examples that come to mind, but it's not all submissions.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Bring back the gi.

[CrimsonGhost56]

:fedor:

[Liquidrob]

submission defense is a part of bjj/sub grappling, so without it you are screwed going to the ground, wrestling by itself does not lead to an end, besides a slam finish which is very rare, straight wrestling will not finish a fight, it's a means to an end, but not an end

boxing, kickboxing, bjj, judo, sambo, etc...all have finishes, wrestling doesnt have that, at least the wrestling these guys learned growing up

what sucks, is the rules have made bjj 'ineffective' in a judging sense, and wrestling is scored higher, which is strange because it's a fight and wrestling isnt the end game

I remember a baroni quote about before a lindland fight I believe 'whats he going to do, wrestle me to death?'