Good read on why JMMA has declined

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  • SHOGUN
    4 WR 1 RB 0 TE. 24/7/365.
    • Jul 2009
    • 11416

    Good read on why JMMA has declined



    There's an ongoing pattern with how MMA writers respond to Japanese MMA. When Takanori Gomi lost to Nate Diaz, pieces went up exclaiming the "end of Japanese MMA's relevance". The same thing happened to Maximo Blanco, and it's been the story everytime a fighter cutting his teeth in Japan comes to the US, and loses. So what's the real narrative here? Are their North American counterparts just better? Or are other factors at play?

    Obviously, you can't talk about the decline in Japanese MMA without first looking at how the major shows burst into political flames. For Pride, it all started with rumors filed against Pride's then parent company, Dream Stage Entertainment, of being connected with the Yakuza. The pressure that came from these allegations in print forced FujiTV to drop DSE-related programming, and the rest was history.

    Japanese MMA isn't what it once was, but what has happened to all the ranked fighters? To Kid Yamamoto? Michihiro Omigawa? Takanori Gomi? Etc. In two of these cases, it should be pointed out that they were given title contenders right out the gate. Which is a bit much. On top of that neither Gomi nor Kid entered the UFC in their primes. Omigawa's stuck plummeted after losing to Darren Elkins (despite receiving a win bonus for a bogus decision).

    Already there's clearly more beneath the surface. And If Hatsu Hioki loses to George Roop, you can guarantee writers will be at it again proclaiming the death of Japanese MMA. "JMMA" may not be worthwhile to many writers, but their tone suggests it is worthless. However, there clearly is a gap between the type of MMA offered in Japan, and the type of MMA offered in North America.

    When it comes to knowledge of the Japanese MMA scene, it doesn't get much better than MMAFighting's Daniel Herbertson, and Sherdog's Tony Loiseleur. With the former doing brilliant work covering the unique journey of Enson Inoue, and the latter doing work on Shooto's tax scandal like an actual journalist, it doesn't get much better than these two. So why is Japanese MMA lacking? It turns out there's more to the equation than arbitrarily pointing fingers.

    When you think about what makes American MMA different, you have to also think about its wide, intimately linked network. The Greg Jackson's of the world aren't a dime a dozen, but there are enough facsimiles to emphasize how well MMA is understood, and how seriously it's taken in North America when it comes to understanding what makes for effective fighting. Many trainers understand concepts like "phase-shifting", and the ability to transition between disciplines.

    "A typical Japanese MMA training session would be an exhausting "warmup" that can sometimes take up to an hour, followed by one or two techniques repeated only a few times, then hours of sparring", Daniel Herbertson notes. "There are specialty coaches (striking, wrestling, and sub wrestling coaches at most good places) at gyms but they really aren't utilized to their full potential as the focus is so much on sparring and less on acquiring new skills"

    Tony Loiseleur expands on this, citing the anomaly that is Yushin Okami. "I've lost track of how many times I've interviewed a fighter off the record about their gameplan for an upcoming opponent, only to receive the answer 'I'm just training really hard and am prepared to react to what my opponent does....only within the last year or so have fighters realized that YouTube exists for more than just killing time...In the last interview I did with Okami, he brought up another important point in how training in the US differs from Japan:
    In Japan, we tend to be more more regimented between disciplines when we train; we do have MMA training, but boxing is boxing, wrestling is wrestling, and grappling is grappling. It's all separated and doesn't always flow into each other", explains Okami. Okami continues, "When you learn from an American MMA sensei, you learn MMA...Disciplines aren't so separated, everything flows into each other and you're able to understand what exactly MMA is.
    The role of geography is also something else Loiseleur highlights. This may seem like an irrelevant point on the surface, but geography ultimately speaks to the phenomenon that there are simply less resources available in Japan. "As Japan is a country that piles its best, brightest, and most commerically viable into its capital city of Tokyo, Japan's MMA industry is wholly located in this one city where space is naturally at a premium. It may sound strange, but having the space in which to train freely without bumping into the next guy, as well as the space to place the proper equipment is impossible to find here. Missing are the enormous warehouse-style all-in-one training centers that populate North America, where you can find a cage and a ring, workout equipment, mat space, and a large staff of specialized instructors working together to perfect their unique style of MMA"

    In addition, "Tokyo is one of the most expensive cities in the world, (making it) harder for fighters to maintain the kind of lifestyles that North American's top fighters might take for granted...Further, the monthly cost of training, a diet appropriate for sports, supplements, equipment, even clothing is fairly expensive here. One pound of whey protein, for example, goes for about $60 to $70 depending on the current rate of exchange, and it's not rare to see fighters being awarded a bag for winning a bout on the grassroots level...naturally, some things get left out and stay left out in a fighter's career"

    As observers of sports, we've never more critical of athletes then when they fail mentally. I would never argue that some sort of emerging pattern exists in the way Japanese fighters falter mentally. Quite the opposite: when you consider that their debut fights were against the reigning champion across the Pacific, Yoshihiro Maeda and Takeya Mizugaki put in gutsy, respectable performances against Miguel Torres (Torres may be forgotten, but it's not hard to imagine Torres fighting Cruz this weekend if the decision goes his way against Johnson).

    But an element of "culture shock" is worth reflecting on. Loiseleur continues, "In traveling to a country where everyone looks physically different from yourself, speaks a different language, and acts and reacts in different ways (it) can provide for a very jarring experience. The culture shock alone is enough to put one's mind off of training, let alone performing one's best in a fight. Case in point: when I had my first sit-down interview with Tatsuya Kawajiri, one thing he made abundantly clear was that while he liked the idea of fighting in a cage and using elbows, he absolutely dreaded fighting in the US and disliked Western fight culture. He was unsettled by the rudeness of the fans, particularly their readiness to boo"

    When you look at the UK, you might say they've picked on quick given the lack of MMA history. And yet Japan, with its very rich history, continues to lag. What explains that? Might the role of language be a factor? "Go "Shiroobi" Yamamoto wrote a short blog piece that touches upon this idea of exchange at his Skill MMA Blog. He notes in one segment how UK-based mixed martial artists have improved a lot in the past few years owning to the simple fact that they speak English, and thus have access to vast resources of MMA information, most of which is arguably in English. It took grappling nerds like Shinya Aoki to introduce the rubber guard to Japan a few years after Eddie Bravo was marketing it and witing books about it, mostly because Japanese fighters besides Aoki (at the time) had zero interest in what was going on across the Pacific", notes Loiseleur.

    Loiseleur and and Herbertson help illuminate what makes Japanese MMA so different, and more importantly, help explain how those differences affect performance. These are not meant to be excuses. Instead they're explanations for why where once Japan was a veritable Mecca for mixed martial arts, it has now become a punchline among MMA writers and observers. However, Japan has a nice amateur infrastructure: an infrastructure far removed from the types that have plagued North America. This was a big, but largely ignored story highlighted by Jake Rossen in the West Virginia scene a couple of years ago (Virginia being the place involving what is MMA's most heinous decision ever in awarding Mike Easton a split decision win over Chase Beebe).

    According to Herbertson, "The amatuer and rookie pro systems are easily the best in the world. The amateur Shooto, Pancrase, and ZST tournaments consistently turn out the best fighters in Japan....Nothing in Western countries can compare to the structure and support system in amateur Shooto. Once a fighter goes through the amateur system, the rookie pro tournaments in these promotions are also outstanding."

    Despite the state of Japanese MMA, it can't get any worse. And in some ways, it feels like it's beginning to grow again. Perhaps there's no hope for JMMA on a scale comparable to Pride in its heyday, but with real interest from fighters to travel abroad, and the UFC providing a nice payoff, it'll be interesting to see how this affects fighters coming from Japan long term. I can't imagine why MMA fans wouldn't be excited. If you don't like the prospect of fighters like Kyoji Horiguchi getting proper support with real training from real trainers, then you're watching the wrong sport.

     
    "Sometimes I just want to be with my family and watch movie and eat some popcorn. But when I step on the mat I know there is no other place I'd rather be." - Marcelo Garcia
  • Rip
    Junior Member
    • Aug 2011
    • 584

    #2
    I was going to send a private message, but I thought making a post in here would be more appropriate.

    Could you give me a list of Japanese/Asian MMA fighters to watch highlights of? I forget if it's Liquid or Shogan who's a huge Japanese MMA fan. Thanks in advance.

    Comment

    • SHOGUN
      4 WR 1 RB 0 TE. 24/7/365.
      • Jul 2009
      • 11416

      #3
      Originally posted by Rip
      I was going to send a private message, but I thought making a post in here would be more appropriate.

      Could you give me a list of Japanese/Asian MMA fighters to watch highlights of? I forget if it's Liquid or Shogan who's a huge Japanese MMA fan. Thanks in advance.
      Kazushi Sakuraba
      Hayato Sakurai
      KID Yamamoto
      Rumina Sato
      Takanori Gomi
      Caol Uno
      Tatsuya Kawajiri
      Shinya Aoki
      Masakazu Imanari
      Genki Sudo
      Hatsu Hioki
      Daisuke Nakamura
      Hideo Tokoro
      Mamoru Yamaguchi
      Rambaa Somdet M16
      Hiroyuki Takaya
      Hatsu Hioki

       
      "Sometimes I just want to be with my family and watch movie and eat some popcorn. But when I step on the mat I know there is no other place I'd rather be." - Marcelo Garcia

      Comment

      • Liquidrob
        Izzy is a bum
        • Feb 2009
        • 11785

        #4
        Great list by Shogun, pretty much covered it, mayve throw in Minowa for the freak factor, he has some sowrks though, but still fun

        One of my favorite HL's, Saku

        [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44E-lW3aYhM"]Best of Kazushi Sakuraba - YouTube[/ame]

        Greatest Flying armbar ever, Sato

        [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37RFjrs07oc"]Flying Armbar by Rumina Sato - YouTube[/ame]
        Liquidrob's Top 10 Fighters Rankings


        The 10 Fighters Who Changed The Game

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        • EmpireWF
          Giants in the Super Bowl
          • Mar 2009
          • 24082

          #5
          If a great Japanese fighter emerged over there, wouldn't JMMA pick up? They haven't had a major star in ages.


          Comment

          • Liquidrob
            Izzy is a bum
            • Feb 2009
            • 11785

            #6
            The fans dont care about MMA anymore, at least on the casual level, it was more of a fad

            Now with no money you're not going to get the non japanese draw, The Reem was there last chance, but he isnt even getting paid, so you'r pretty much screwed, I dont see a Bob Sapp type ever happen again
            Liquidrob's Top 10 Fighters Rankings


            The 10 Fighters Who Changed The Game

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            • SHOGUN
              4 WR 1 RB 0 TE. 24/7/365.
              • Jul 2009
              • 11416

              #7
              Originally posted by EmpireWF
              If a great Japanese fighter emerged over there, wouldn't JMMA pick up? They haven't had a major star in ages.
              Doubtful. The economy is too weak to see some immediate benefits and since the combat bubble has burst (and the corruption()), it's been hard to secure a good TV deal. No TV, no big business.

              Having a great fighter helps, but is not the answer. Hioki is pretty much a nobody in Japan. Aoki draws somewhat since he's heavily pushed, but he's a prick and people want to see him lose. Kawajiri is a fan favorite, but not so much where he could be face of things on the upswing.

              I'd love to see the US adopt a Shooto system for amateur fighters.

               
              "Sometimes I just want to be with my family and watch movie and eat some popcorn. But when I step on the mat I know there is no other place I'd rather be." - Marcelo Garcia

              Comment

              • Warner2BruceTD
                2011 Poster Of The Year
                • Mar 2009
                • 26142

                #8
                Originally posted by EmpireWF
                If a great Japanese fighter emerged over there, wouldn't JMMA pick up? They haven't had a major star in ages.
                If a great Japanese fighter emerged, he'd be in the UFC.

                It's over.

                Comment

                • SHOGUN
                  4 WR 1 RB 0 TE. 24/7/365.
                  • Jul 2009
                  • 11416

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Warner2BruceTD
                  If a great Japanese fighter emerged, he'd be in the UFC.

                   
                  "Sometimes I just want to be with my family and watch movie and eat some popcorn. But when I step on the mat I know there is no other place I'd rather be." - Marcelo Garcia

                  Comment

                  • Liquidrob
                    Izzy is a bum
                    • Feb 2009
                    • 11785

                    #10
                    tough to gauge a place like japan, you never know what they will hop on next, the sell used womens panties in vending machines for fucks sake
                    Liquidrob's Top 10 Fighters Rankings


                    The 10 Fighters Who Changed The Game

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                    • Warner2BruceTD
                      2011 Poster Of The Year
                      • Mar 2009
                      • 26142

                      #11
                      I do this every couple of years. Here is my take of the current landscape in baseball terms:

                      UFC: MLB - the Yankees

                      Strikeforce: MLB - the Pirates. Playing in the majors, but UFC would be the Yankees. Like a small market baseball team, the UFC eventually pillages the top talent.

                      DREAM: AAA - Top guys will get the occasional call up (Aoki, Crusher), but for the most part, it's career minor leaguers (ex: Hideo Tokoro) or former major leaguers holding on (Cael Uno, Saku).

                      Bellator: AA - Some top prospects who won't be there for long (Alvarez, Warren, Konrad, etc). Most of the roster could never compete in the majors or even hang with the top prospects here (everyone tonight).

                      M1: A - low level minors, long term prospects, some diamonds in the rough. Fedor is on a rehab assignment.

                      Titan, KotK, Cage Rage, etc: Independent League - an odd hodgepodge of has beens (Ricco Rodriguez, Pete Spratt, Jeremy Horn) never will be's, and free agent major leaguers (Sokodjou, Lashley, Paul Daley) trying to get back in the game.

                      Comment

                      • Liquidrob
                        Izzy is a bum
                        • Feb 2009
                        • 11785

                        #12
                        UFC - Kimbo, Junie, James Toney, all top of the food chain talent, they would smoke anyone from another org

                        The worst UFC fighter is better than the top guy from another org - FACT
                        Liquidrob's Top 10 Fighters Rankings


                        The 10 Fighters Who Changed The Game

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