The General Wrestling Thread

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

RE: Luger.

Luger is like the Eddie George of wrestlers. Top 10 pick. A lot of productivity simply because he got the ball a LOT. But never elite or made a team better.

Is that a bust? I don't know.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Putting this here too because it shouldn't be buried in the Best of 2013 thread where four people will look.

If you are a WWE guy and will never watch another Dragon Gate match in your life, please just take a few minutes and watch this. You won't regret it.

[EmpireWF]

Raven.

[Guest]

LOL at H's saying TNA doesn't have anyone they need. I don't think they need anyone to be honest, but forget Taz. There are plenty of guys who could enhance the product if the chance became available for them to sign with the WWE.

[Warner2BruceTD]

LOL at H's saying TNA doesn't have anyone they need. I don't think they need anyone to be honest, but forget Taz. There are plenty of guys who could enhance the product if the chance became available for them to sign with the WWE.

Even if this is true (that there are plenty of guys who could come in and enhance the product), and i'm not sure it is honestly, there is no reason to put TNA over. If there is somebody that they like who becomes available, they can bring them in. No need to play your hand. Also, they've always treated TNA like it's irrelevant, which is strategically sound on many levels if not outright true.

You can pretty much count on one hand the number of people they've signed from TNA who weren't with the WWE previously. Chris Harris, Monty Brown, Awesome Kong, Low Ki (if you want to count him, not sure if he came directly from TNA), Lance Hoyt...now look at that track record of how those people did in WWE. You think they are foaming at the mouth to keep dipping into that pool?

[s@ppisgod]

They shouldn't even mention TNA right now, unless it's as a threat to send someone back to the minors. They're doing a fine job of sinking that ship themselves. Once they go under, guys like Styles, Roode, Aries, Joe, even Kaz should be no-brainers to begin a new class of NXT. Maybe the Dudleys for a little nostalgia.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Raiding the indies is the best thing WWE ever did in terms of restocking the roster. It's not like it we weren't screaming for it for years. They waited five years too long on these guys and didn't get some of them until they were 30+. Bryan, Cesaro, 2/3 of the Shield, 2/3 of the Wyatt's, these are some of the hottest acts in the company, and there are more in developmental ready to come up any time (PAC, Chris Hero) and even more waiting to start (Callihan, Del Sol).

Second gen works out a lot, Axel, Wyatt, Reigns, Rhodes, a million other, Steamboat, another Rotunda & Flair in developmental, etc. They grow up with the lifestyle which is always a hard adjustment for outsiders, plus they obviously get good advice and have a good understanding of the business before they ever take a bump.

International should be limited to Europe. Lucha guys can't adjust to the style and they have a stigma against Asians that pigeonhole them to racist comedy gimmicks most of the time. Euro's adjust best to the style and are taken seriously.

Seeking out models & bodybuilders is mostly a fail, and they are getting away from that. They will keep doing it for the women, but that doesn't really matter because the women will never draw serious WWE level money anyway and since the focus is looks, cycling in bikini models is probably the best strategy honestly, as long as you have a good worker or two in the mix so the matches aren't completely terrible.

[Warner2BruceTD]

They shouldn't even mention TNA right now, unless it's as a threat to send someone back to the minors. They're doing a fine job of sinking that ship themselves. Once they go under, guys like Styles, Roode, Aries, Joe, even Kaz should be no-brainers to begin a new class of NXT. Maybe the Dudleys for a little nostalgia.

Austin Aries is a no brainer, he's elite level at everything and they missed the boat badly when they passed on him. Roode would have no problems. I'd laugh if they sent Joe to Florida, but I bet they would those crazy fuckers. Kaz better hope Steph doesn't remember him, that dumbass.

I'd think they'd be all over Bully, assuming the homophobic thing blew over. Devon is well liked, so why not.

But it's like you say, why play that hand publicly? No reason to say anything nice.

[Guest]

But it's like you say, why play that hand publicly? No reason to say anything nice.

That wasn't my thinking. Knowing how things make it around in not just this business, but any other sports and entertainment thing, he should have said nothing at all. You don't want to alienate guys who are currently there who could come in for you.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Raiding the indies is the best thing WWE ever did in terms of restocking the roster. It's not like it we weren't screaming for it for years. They waited five years too long on these guys and didn't get some of them until they were 30+. Bryan, Cesaro, 2/3 of the Shield, 2/3 of the Wyatt's, these are some of the hottest acts in the company, and there are more in developmental ready to come up any time (PAC, Chris Hero) and even more waiting to start (Callihan, Del Sol).

Second gen works out a lot, Axel, Wyatt, Reigns, Rhodes, a million other, Steamboat, another Rotunda & Flair in developmental, etc. They grow up with the lifestyle which is always a hard adjustment for outsiders, plus they obviously get good advice and have a good understanding of the business before they ever take a bump.

International should be limited to Europe. Lucha guys can't adjust to the style and they have a stigma against Asians that pigeonhole them to racist comedy gimmicks most of the time. Euro's adjust best to the style and are taken seriously.

Seeking out models & bodybuilders is mostly a fail, and they are getting away from that. They will keep doing it for the women, but that doesn't really matter because the women will never draw serious WWE level money anyway and since the focus is looks, cycling in bikini models is probably the best strategy honestly, as long as you have a good worker or two in the mix so the matches aren't completely terrible.

Best place to find women...the Lingerie Football League or any incarnate of it since.

In-shape, athletic women, good looks, that they can develop their personality and in-ring stuff. The Indies have a good bunch of chicks, but lets keep it real, they rarely have the look the WWE wants.

They haven't locked in on bodybuilders in a long while. I like that the WWE is going back to old school scouting that is time honored...the Indies/Territories and Football players. You can bring in the occasional strong man or whatever, and by proxy, they'll get better because you have seasoned Indie performers that likely have trained numerous wrestlers already and football players who are superior athletes. The football players will help push the Indies guys in the gym while the Indie guys push the football players in the ring. Its a great relationship and will develop a really solid base for the future of the product.

[s@ppisgod]

What's different about luchas today? Guys like Mysterio, Psychosis, Juvy, etc made the transition and looked good and worked with the lower card gringos fine in WCW. But since then, there seems to be no pipeline between the luchas and bigger American promotions. With the exception of Sin Cara, who flopped hard.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Yeah, I forgot about football players & amateur wrestlers. That's the most fertile ground of all historically.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Austin Aries is a no brainer, he's elite level at everything and they missed the boat badly when they passed on him. Roode would have no problems. I'd laugh if they sent Joe to Florida, but I bet they would those crazy fuckers. Kaz better hope Steph doesn't remember him, that dumbass.

I'd think they'd be all over Bully, assuming the homophobic thing blew over. Devon is well liked, so why not.

But it's like you say, why play that hand publicly? No reason to say anything nice.

Anyone who has been in the WWE, I can see them having an open invitation to come back. Definitely The Dudleyz, especially with both being in the best shape of their careers. Include Sting in that, as he's had an open invite for almost two decades.

I am not sure the WWE takes a ton of talent otherwise. I mean, I can see Joe, but he's already gotten the Kevin Steen treatment of "we really like you...but...you're fat...you need to lose a lot of weight" despite both coming highly recommended by several people already in the company. Maybe they sign him, and basically throw him in a gym for 6 months before they even debut him and just have him work NXT house shows. The new facilities in Florida make scenarios like that a real reality. They've had numerous shots to bring in Aries and passed a few times.

I would think a guy like Bobby Roode fits right in, I'm just not sure anyone that matters is even aware of who he is. Daniels and Kaz I could see easily working ROH and PWG with the WWE not even giving each a look, sadly. I am not sure if anyone that matters has much of an opinion of Styles.

I am sure a ton of them will come recommended by people on the outside of the circle, say, Jamie Noble, Mick Foley, Jim Ross, etc, but how many of those guys would get signed?

[s@ppisgod]

Best place to find women...the Lingerie Football League or any incarnate of it since.

In-shape, athletic women, good looks, that they can develop their personality and in-ring stuff. The Indies have a good bunch of chicks, but lets keep it real, they rarely have the look the WWE wants.

They haven't locked in on bodybuilders in a long while. I like that the WWE is going back to old school scouting that is time honored...the Indies/Territories and Football players. You can bring in the occasional strong man or whatever, and by proxy, they'll get better because you have seasoned Indie performers that likely have trained numerous wrestlers already and football players who are superior athletes. The football players will help push the Indies guys in the gym while the Indie guys push the football players in the ring. Its a great relationship and will develop a really solid base for the future of the product.

Yeah, we've long had the "why isn't wrestler X in WWE?" talk for a long, long time about the guys who are currently tearing it up. It took entirely too long for them to come to the change. Their scouting and developmental was atrocious in the 00's, and they seemingly kept things the same as if the results weren't terrible. With Claudio especially. He wasn't the biggest talent, but he was a no-brainer. Someone like Black got in kinda early, Danielson always had offers on the table IIRC, but Claudio seemed like a guy destined to be over-looked forever.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

What's different about luchas today? Guys like Mysterio, Psychosis, Juvy, etc made the transition and looked good and worked with the lower card gringos fine in WCW. But since then, there seems to be no pipeline between the luchas and bigger American promotions. With the exception of Sin Cara, who flopped hard.

Mysterio is an American. He's a true outlier. Same with Eddie, for example. They both spoke great English.

Alberto Del Rio is a real Mexican...but again, speaks great English.

The other guys...they didn't speak very good English and also got their start in the US in a totally different landscape. They were slow to warm. They debuted in ECW where...who cared about their ability to talk? They just featured their in-ring work. For the most part, same in WCW. Throw in characters like LA Parka in there, too, but he was obviously more charismatic.

In the WWE though, its imperative you talk...unless you're The Undertaker or Brock Lesnar or something. If you can't, you're way behind. Sin Cara's whole gimmick revolves around not being able to talk, but his charisma just does not translate at all in the States. The Great Khali barely speaks audible English, but he's 7'10" and quickly dissolved into a comedy act...so, it works for him. But if you're a 5'4" flippy spic...what is the WWE going to do with you, really?

Plus, it seems as though the WWE feels they can put anyone in a mask if they need to. They have Epico in a mask in developmental. Hunico, too. Once it got time to actually be in the WWE, the masks came off quickly. They could have debuted El Generico in a mask and he's so good, it would have worked great. But, you take the mask off, he's the same guy, and they can take him to the moon. They put Ricardo Rodriguez under a mask for obvious reasons to do job duty occasionally.

Masks could sell hand over fist for the WWE, but they still get plenty of burn on Sin Cara and Rey Mysterio masks and they either don't work or are bums...so, I am sure they are content with that.