The General Wrestling Thread

[Warner2BruceTD]

I would say Samoa Joe had a damn good run in TNA before they completely destroyed him. Now he's over 30, probably starting to hurt, and just doesnt give a fuck.

Christopher Daniels had a good run in TNA as well, even though he never had a sustained run on top.

Punk is on the cusp of being a mega star, and he somehow managed to keep his gimmick. Winner.

I think when all is said and done, Danielson will be a big success, if he chooses to wait it out. Right now, he is in the "we wont push him even if he's over because we have to prove a point" phase of his WWE career.

AJ Styles was never really an indy darling, he was TNA from day 1.

Tyler Black will never go anywhere with those shitty promos.

Davey might as well be a midget as far as WWE is concerned, he's way to short and unlike Bourne, doesnt have the underdog charisma, so he has no chance. He wouldnt survive being jobbed out because his whole deal is based on being a serious ass kicker.

The rest I could have told you wouldnt be big stars, for various reasons (size, mostly).

sidenote-Danielson has officially MADE IT:

[EmpireWF]

Can't remember the last figure I bought, but damn if I ever saw one of those in the store...I'd have to fight myself to keep the $10.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I would say Samoa Joe had a damn good run in TNA before they completely destroyed him. Now he's over 30, probably starting to hurt, and just doesnt give a fuck.

Christopher Daniels had a good run in TNA as well, even though he never had a sustained run on top.

Punk is on the cusp of being a mega star, and he somehow managed to keep his gimmick. Winner.

I think when all is said and done, Danielson will be a big success, if he chooses to wait it out. Right now, he is in the "we wont push him even if he's over because we have to prove a point" phase of his WWE career.

AJ Styles was never really an indy darling, he was TNA from day 1.

Tyler Black will never go anywhere with those shitty promos.

Davey might as well be a midget as far as WWE is concerned, he's way to short and unlike Bourne, doesnt have the underdog charisma, so he has no chance. He wouldnt survive being jobbed out because his whole deal is based on being a serious ass kicker.

The rest I could have told you wouldnt be big stars, for various reasons (size, mostly).

sidenote-Danielson has officially MADE IT:

Most of those guys would be higher up the ladder than they are if TNA was anything more than terrible.

I don't watch TNA, but I have no idea what happened to Nigel Wolfe. He was bad ass when I was watching, then suddenly was dropped to the bottom of the card and was doing vignettes in a mall with his chick.

Joe had one nice run with TNA, then stopped giving a fuck. Now he is just fat, and sloppy in the ring, and and an uninteresting performer at this point.

[SHOGUN]

Desmond Wolfe had a shitty feud with Abyss over Chelsea, had a long ass losing streak, lost to Jay Lethal and got kicked out of Flair's posse, got squashed by Samoa Joe and seemingly disappeared. Later he reappeared on Explosion and formed a tag team with Magnus called London Brawling on Explosion, but before that got rolling he was apparently suffering from some concussion-like symptoms and TNA gave him some time off.

He was at the latest taping so he should be appearing on TV again really soon.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Desmond Wolfe had a shitty feud with Abyss over Chelsea, had a long ass losing streak, lost to Jay Lethal and got kicked out of Flair's posse, got squashed by Samoa Joe and seemingly disappeared. Later he reappeared on Explosion and formed a tag team with Magnus called London Brawling on Explosion, but before that got rolling he was apparently suffering from some concussion-like symptoms and TNA gave him some time off.

He was at the latest taping so he should be appearing on TV again really soon.

You know how when I write the Top 100 profiles, I usually end the story when the guy shows up in TNA?

See above.

[EmpireWF]

Court Bauer was on F4W Daily the other day (he was the MLW Promoter and a former writer in WWE) and told a great story about the origins of the horrible Punjabi Prison match. He said they were looking at some gimmick to make the Bash PPV that month. Bauer showed Vince pictures and footage of one of the FMW exploding bomb cage matches and Vince loved it. They sent whatever info to Kevin Dunn.....the week of the PPV they get the concept artwork for the gimmick and voila, the Punjabi Prison Match was born.

It was suppose to be Khali and Taker, they were baffled at how Khali would work it. Ended up being the show where a bunch of guys were pulled b/c of health issues and it was Big Show and Taker.



Intriguing...he also said WWE recently dropped the ball in bringing in someone who was "fresh off TV of a major MMA company" and wanted to come in. He didn't say directly but joked that Johnny Ace fucked it up, but wouldn't say the fighters name because he's still has a job with whomever.

Josh Koscheck? Although depending on the time, it could have been Quinton Jackson since he was a wrestling fan as a kid.

[SHOGUN]

Question: Is it more impressive to be a 8-time champion with short reigns or say a 3-time champion with lengthy title reigns?

I ask this because Jay Lethal's whole gimmick is that he wins the X-Division belt, someone new feuds with him and takes the belt a month later, then he spends the next month getting it back. Rinse and repeat.

[FedEx227]

Court Bauer was on F4W Daily the other day (he was the MLW Promoter and a former writer in WWE) and told a great story about the origins of the horrible Punjabi Prison match. He said they were looking at some gimmick to make the Bash PPV that month. Bauer showed Vince pictures and footage of one of the FMW exploding bomb cage matches and Vince loved it. They sent whatever info to Kevin Dunn.....the week of the PPV they get the concept artwork for the gimmick and voila, the Punjabi Prison Match was born.

It was suppose to be Khali and Taker, they were baffled at how Khali would work it. Ended up being the show where a bunch of guys were pulled b/c of health issues and it was Big Show and Taker.



Intriguing...he also said WWE recently dropped the ball in bringing in someone who was "fresh off TV of a major MMA company" and wanted to come in. He didn't say directly but joked that Johnny Ace fucked it up, but wouldn't say the fighters name because he's still has a job with whomever.

Josh Koscheck? Although depending on the time, it could have been Quinton Jackson since he was a wrestling fan as a kid.

I think it was Rampage.

[Warner2BruceTD]

It was Roy Nelson.

[FedEx227]

Oh... nobody would've given a shit about that.

As a pretty minimal MMA fan I can tell you I know very little about Nelson.

[Bigpapa42]

Question: Is it more impressive to be a 8-time champion with short reigns or say a 3-time champion with lengthy title reigns?

I ask this because Jay Lethal's whole gimmick is that he wins the X-Division belt, someone new feuds with him and takes the belt a month later, then he spends the next month getting it back. Rinse and repeat.

More reigns always looks more impressive on paper. But clearly not every reign is equal in terms of value. Just like Triple H being a 13-time world champion or Edge being a 10-time champion is not as impressive as Ric Flair's 16 reigns, for various reasons.

BTW, Jay Lethal is Reason # 9471 that TNA fucking sucks. They spend how much time last year building him up into a legit fan favorite by having him feud with Flair, allowing him to segue perfectly away from the "mimmicking" gimmick and how do they have it pay off? By shoving him right back into the X Division so he can feud with a pop culture ripoff gimmick that no one seems to give a shit about.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Question: Is it more impressive to be a 8-time champion with short reigns or say a 3-time champion with lengthy title reigns?

I ask this because Jay Lethal's whole gimmick is that he wins the X-Division belt, someone new feuds with him and takes the belt a month later, then he spends the next month getting it back. Rinse and repeat.

Very few titles mean anything in pro wrestling these days.

In the US, I would say that ROH has protected their titles well, and ROH title changes still mean something.

TNA titles are utterly worthless, abused beyond repair.

The two WWE world titles have been protected better lately, but all of the secondary titles are worthless, because the various champions aren't slotted any better than non champions, and are in many cases jobbers themselves.

Title reigns pre Monday Night Wars meant something, because even the secondary titles were put on people expected to draw. WWE would have three tours at once, all headlined by the three champions (World, IC, Tag), so the secondary belts were tools used to draw. World champions were chosen because they were the legitimate biggest star in the territory and the best draws. When the champ stopped drawing, they moved on to the next guy. That obviously isn't the case anymore. Now title changes are all about being used for tv angles and less about passing the torch or maximizing your best draw.

Japan has seen more frequent title changes, but that's more because they have had ttrouble finding/creating new stars, and promotions have been impatient when champs don't move the needle right away. But generally, title changes are still a big deal, and things like length of title reigns and number of successful defenses still matter and are pushed.

Mexico is a clusterfuck, always has been, and always will. They have a million titles, and none of them mean a thing for business or otherwise. That's just the culture. Its about characters and masks/hair, not chasing titles.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

As we spoke about before...titles are now just props, they aren't actually deserved items for recognizing how good you are to and for the company, they are props to try and get you over...in the E, anyway.

[Warner2BruceTD]

The "title chase", and title matches in general, are the easiest and most simplistic way to draw money in wrestling, yet WWE & TNA have even managed to destroy that time tested method of easy booking. It's mind boggling.

For example, not so long ago, title belts were protected in ways that people don't even think about today. The title holder would handle the belt gently, treating it like it really was worth tens of thousands of dollars and was a precious commodity. Before a title defense, often times the champion would pause, hold the belt, and cautiously hand it to a ring attendant, with a look on his face that said "I hope this isnt the last time I hand it over". The only time this is done today, is when a guy is about to lose the title, and this always gives the result away (the famous "im losing the belt tonight" face that pouty mark bitches like HBK & Batista always do).

Attacking an opponent with the belt was unheard of, or a gimmick used so sparingly, it would get over like a mothefucker. Now guys use title belts as weapons just as frequently as chairs or tables.

Champions would proudly wear a title at all times, either around their waist, or over their shoulder. Now, you often see guys dragging the belt by the strap, like a leash. Or Giant Bernard, who wears the IWGP tag title around his fucking neck like a collar.

All of these things seem small, but years of disrespecting the physical title belt educates the audience that the titles arent important just as much as the frequent title changes and champions treated as jobbers. It's these subtle mannerisms and details that make all the difference. Watch how Harley Race or Ric Flair (in the 70's and 80's) or Ricky Steamboat or Jack Briscoe or Mitsuhara Misawa or Tatsumi Fujinami held their title belts like they were holding a baby. Do you think Misawa would ever strike an opponent with his title, or nonchalantly drag it to the ring, and toss it to the outside like a piece of garbage? This stuff matters.

[Warner2BruceTD]

double post