Burke: Concerned about the NHL's direction on Fighting

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  • FirstTimer
    Freeman Error

    • Feb 2009
    • 18729

    #16
    Originally posted by NAHSTE
    Yeah I don't know if goals are the best way to quantify the possible emotional effect it has on a team, or if you even can quantify it.
    I would figure though that it's the best way to try and correlate it since the generic tenor of the issue is that "fighting helps teams win"..the only way to win is to score more goals.... so if fighting helps a team win at some point in some way it has to correlate out to goal scoring. Whether a direct or indirect path it logically has to end up there eventually

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    • leaffan
      Colton Orr Fan
      • Feb 2009
      • 11082

      #17
      Originally posted by FirstTimer
      I would figure though that it's the best way to try and correlate it since the generic tenor of the issue is that "fighting helps teams win"..the only way to win is to score more goals.... so if fighting helps a team win at some point in some way it has to correlate out to goal scoring. Whether a direct or indirect path it logically has to end up there eventually
      The whole thought process of having more fighting = more goals or the other way around is not the point of it. In a sense fighting keeps things such as the "rats" Burke talks about in check. What happends when you take it out is players have more injuries. Major injuries to major players results in more then just a few goals lost. This is seen often in tournaments where fighting is disallowed and you more often then not get a lot of injuries that are a result of people taking liberties on others.

      Leafs offseason training!

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      • FirstTimer
        Freeman Error

        • Feb 2009
        • 18729

        #18
        Originally posted by leaffan
        The whole thought process of having more fighting = more goals or the other way around is not the point of it.
        Yes it is, partially. We've been told repeatedly here that fighting helps pump the team up etc etc, helps them win etc as well.

        Goal scoring or the prevention of it is how hockey games are won. It's also easier to score goals if the players are protected.


        As for keeping players in check..if the NHL FO wasn't so limp dicked they could do more about it.

        Comment

        • Fappin Raptor
          I literally know nothing.
          • Jul 2009
          • 6737

          #19
          Well, if one person instigates every one on the opposite team into a fight at the same time then you can win without scoring goals because they'd have to forfeit.


          Comment

          • FirstTimer
            Freeman Error

            • Feb 2009
            • 18729

            #20
            Originally posted by Fappin Raptor
            Well, if one person instigates every one on the opposite team into a fight at the same time then you can win without scoring goals because they'd have to forfeit.
            Come at me bro.......................s!

            Comment

            • Fappin Raptor
              I literally know nothing.
              • Jul 2009
              • 6737

              #21
              Originally posted by FirstTimer
              Come at me bro.......................s!

              Comment

              • leaffan
                Colton Orr Fan
                • Feb 2009
                • 11082

                #22
                Originally posted by FirstTimer
                Yes it is, partially. We've been told repeatedly here that fighting helps pump the team up etc etc, helps them win etc as well.

                Goal scoring or the prevention of it is how hockey games are won. It's also easier to score goals if the players are protected.


                As for keeping players in check..if the NHL FO wasn't so limp dicked they could do more about it.
                I've always held the opinion that fighting is around to keep players in check first and foremost and to prevent injuries that could be caused by it not being around.

                This will indirectly help you win.

                The NHL front office comment is what Burke was talking about in the article.

                Leafs offseason training!

                Comment

                • FirstTimer
                  Freeman Error

                  • Feb 2009
                  • 18729

                  #23
                  Originally posted by leaffan
                  This will indirectly help you win.
                  Like I said originally it all directly or indirectly ties back to goal scoring. Keeping the goal scorers protected obviously would help goal scoring. How much...is what the article was trying to dig for overall.

                  Comment

                  • leaffan
                    Colton Orr Fan
                    • Feb 2009
                    • 11082

                    #24
                    Originally posted by FirstTimer
                    Like I said originally it all directly or indirectly ties back to goal scoring. Keeping the goal scorers protected obviously would help goal scoring. How much...is what the article was trying to dig for overall.
                    The article like I've already said does a poor job at that though.

                    Leafs offseason training!

                    Comment

                    • FirstTimer
                      Freeman Error

                      • Feb 2009
                      • 18729

                      #25
                      The Burke situation is odd. Not that I trust the NHL FO to ever really do anything well...but one would think that if fighting, dirty play etc was punished more severely by the FO it would be drastically reduced. I think money and lots of it sends a clearer message rather than a fist to the face over the long term.

                      I don't think the NHL FO is doing nearly enough now to curtail fighting as "needed" in the sport..whether by design or ineptitude I'm not sure at this time. But the entire Bettman "we will have to see more research on brain injuries before we make a choice" sounds a lot like the idiotic BS that was coming out of the NFL commissioner 3 years ago.
                      Originally posted by leaffan
                      The article like I've already said does a poor job at that though.

                      I don't think it did a "poor job" I think it was trying to do the best it could with what information it had to work with. I don't for a second think it's conclusive but the method may be going down the right track to a certain extent.

                      Comment

                      • killgod
                        OHHHH WHEN THE REDSSSSS
                        • Oct 2008
                        • 4714

                        #26
                        The league isn't trying to curtail fighting though, so of course you aren't seeing them trying to punish fighters...


                        Dirty play is being punished more severely, guys are suspended almost daily right now...


                        ?????????

                        Comment

                        • leaffan
                          Colton Orr Fan
                          • Feb 2009
                          • 11082

                          #27
                          Originally posted by FirstTimer
                          The Burke situation is odd. Not that I trust the NHL FO to ever really do anything well...but one would think that if fighting, dirty play etc was punished more severely by the FO it would be drastically reduced. I think money and lots of it sends a clearer message rather than a fist to the face over the long term.

                          I don't think the NHL FO is doing nearly enough now to curtail fighting as "needed" in the sport..whether by design or ineptitude I'm not sure at this time. But the entire Bettman "we will have to see more research on brain injuries before we make a choice" sounds a lot like the idiotic BS that was coming out of the NFL commissioner 3 years ago.



                          I don't think it did a "poor job" I think it was trying to do the best it could with what information it had to work with. I don't for a second think it's conclusive but the method may be going down the right track to a certain extent.
                          It's funny because thats exactly what the NHL is doing but is also the most scrutinized by fans and the PA.

                          Leafs offseason training!

                          Comment

                          • FirstTimer
                            Freeman Error

                            • Feb 2009
                            • 18729

                            #28
                            Originally posted by killgod
                            The league isn't trying to curtail fighting though,
                            You misunderstood what I was saying.

                            I said "I don't think the NHL FO is doing nearly enough now to curtail fighting as "needed" in the sport".

                            Which is to say they aren't punishing dirty play, illegal/unsafe play etc enough to to the point help where fighting isn't a needed way of policing the on ice action.

                            I was somewhat agreeing with leafs idea that fighting is "needed" still at this point because the FO isn't doing enough...or taking it far enough at this point.

                            Comment

                            • FirstTimer
                              Freeman Error

                              • Feb 2009
                              • 18729

                              #29
                              Originally posted by leaffan
                              It's funny because thats exactly what the NHL is doing but is also the most scrutinized by fans and the PA.
                              The backlash will only get worse because I don't think they are doing it severely enough.

                              Backlash I am all too familair with with following the recent explosion of NFL player safety rules.

                              Comment

                              • Ravin
                                Dishing the Gino's
                                • Feb 2009
                                • 6994

                                #30
                                I'm fairly sure if the NFL had fighting, that MFer Harrison from Pittsburgh wouldn't be head hunting on hits because he would have got the fuck beat out of him by now.
                                All you need to know when thinking of the NHL vs Madden series is the two people involved in making the games.

                                "rammer" and "cummings"

                                The NHL series is a giver, Madden takes the load.

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