Better Worker - Hulk Hogan or John Cena

[Warner2BruceTD]

Not who is better right now, because that's obvious. Overall.

There is a heated debate going on at another board. I think we have a small but very savvy group of wrestling posters here. I want your opinions.

Use whatever criteria you see fit. I will step away and come back when the thread fattens a bit. I'm curious how you guys will size this one up, because the other thread has gotten pretty interesting.

[Leftwich]

Before you run away, what do you mean? Who is better at cutting promos, putting together a match or being the face of wrestling?

I will answer when you clarify.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Worker. Workrate.

To your individual qualifiers:

-Promos should count for nothing.

-Putting together a match would be an important factor.

-Being the face of wrestling should mean nothing, although you could argue that being over leads to better crown reactions, which bumps up the quality of the match.

I will say that people are bringing all of these types of arguments into this, to varying degrees, which is why the debate has gotten so heated.

Maybe I should pose the question this way...Who is the better worker, Hogan or Cena, and please tell me what "worker" means to you.

Let's dig deep here. larry, fed, bigpopa, empire, all you fuckers, let's go.

[Kuzzy Powers]

Cena, I dont think its even close. When Cena wants to go he can put on some decent matches. Hogan was a little better in his younger days then what he would go on to be, but I dont think there was many guys more stiff in the ring then Hogan. He was god awful. I really dont even think there should be a debate on this one.

[Bigpapa42]

Cena.

I started to write up something to argue Hogan. His Japan stuff shows he's not limited to that formula, and I was trying to consider the context of what the "standard WWF in-ring product was" during a given era. But really, Cena's best is on the level of what is amongst the best for his period, while even Hogan's best really isn't for his period.

[JayDizzle]

Cena.

He can carry (see his series of 'vs. Monster Heels' matches with Umaga, Khali and Big Show) or be carried (Michaels, Edge, Eddie) without the match looking too much like shit.

He's formulaic but given his body type, the time given to him for most Main Events (4-15 usually) and the non-need for him to learn a new moveset, it still works.

Hogan, on the other hand, squashes everybody.

If they get a win because they cheated and/or a monster heel, they give it back later on.

[EmpireWF]

At first, I thought Hogan. Then I said that's probably not true...but this is a toughie.

Are we talking Japan Hogan because that mfer could go if he was motivated to.

Cena gets a lot of shit (from me, it's because of his promos and that stupid shit) but you can't say anything about his in-ring stuff. Considering his limitations, the guy busts his ass. He's add very good/great matches with a wide array of guys (Edge, HBK, HHH, Brock, Rock, Umaga, Batista easily come to mind).

Hogan, in America, got away with taking so many shortcuts but he could.

I didn't see a ton of Hogan's Japan work, only know he worked harder there.

So I'll have to go with Cena by default.

[Berowsk]

Hogans only in this discussion because he was in his prime during the days that wrestling was huge. No doubt it's Cena. I've never seen Hogan shoulder press a 7 ft, 441 lb wrestler before.

[JayDizzle]

I'd think it'd be a given that Hogan would attempt to bust his ass when he performed in Japan... mostly because back then (and I'm sure they still uphold the same code today), they'd either kill'im in the ring hardway or banish him out to the streets and blacklist him from gigs.

Vince wasn't about to get one of his guys to break Hogan's leg so he'd learn some respect but you damn well now he getting that wheel tooled up overseas.

I'd love to see if Cena (in his prime, if he's past it considering he's been around for a decade and some change now) could go with a Japanese star some day.*

*If he's done a match outside of the 'E and OVW with somebody overseas, I haven't seen/heard of it.

[EmpireWF]

*If he's done a match outside of the 'E and OVW with somebody overseas, I haven't seen/heard of it.

Nope. He started in UPW before signing with the E, going from OVW to WWE.

[Bigpapa42]

I'd think it'd be a given that Hogan would attempt to bust his ass when he performed in Japan... mostly because back then (and I'm sure they still uphold the same code today), they'd either kill'im in the ring hardway or banish him out to the streets and blacklist him from gigs.

Vince wasn't about to get one of his guys to break Hogan's leg so he'd learn some respect but you damn well now he getting that wheel tooled up overseas.

I'd love to see if Cena (in his prime, if he's past it considering he's been around for a decade and some change now) could go with a Japanese star some day.*

*If he's done a match outside of the 'E and OVW with somebody overseas, I haven't seen/heard of it.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that guys relying on a "formula" won't work in Japan. Inoki is proof that it does. He was a really good technical worker in the 1970s. By the 80s, he was an icon who worked pretty crappy formula matches that don't hold up, but the fans absolutely loved him. Plus New Japan through the 80s was somewhat more diverse than many people realize.

Seen little of Hogan's very earliest stuff in New Japan, which started in 1980 during his first WWWF run. But from what I know, he got over really quickly based on his look. So he probably could have gotten away with keeping to what worked in the States. Certainly during his mid-90s return to Japan, but he still put the work in. Don't know that he absolutely had to, but he did it.

[st lickem]

100% Hogan. In the 80s Hogan could tell a 20 minute story with some of the worst big guys ever. He made fans believe that he was going to finally get defeated by huge plodding guys like king Kong Bundy, kamala one man gang etc. Cena has had the luxury of being paired up with some of the most athletically gifted people in the world. And still made them look like the shits.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I think it's Cena, and really I don't even think it's close.

For starters, I think Cena is vastly underrated. I don't think he's good, but he's not nearly as bad as people make him out to be. He's got a pretty long list of really good matches on his resume, probably more than people realize. He has his share of shit, don't get me wrong. When he is having one of his rough nights, his matches can be cringe worthy, especially against shit opponents. But he can definitely be carried to a great match by good workers.

You would be hard pressed to find a single Hogan match as good as three recent Cena matches (CM Punk @ MITB, Rock @ WM, Lesnar @ Extreme Rules). Hogan largely had the same match every night for about 6 years during his big run. That's not to say he was wrong for working that match every night, because that's what the people wanted and he gave it to them. Doesn't mean we have to pretend they were good. Meanwhile, during the same era, people like Flair, Steamboat, Savage, Windham, etc were having tremendous matches that still hold up today.

Anything past 1991, and Hogan was pure shit, and it had nothing to do with "the Hulkamania formula". He was just physically shot. And in 1991, Hogan was the same age as Cena is today, and Cena is having the best run of matches of his career.

Hogan's best work was in the early 80's. He moved surprisingly well in those days, and his stuff from Japan is eye opening if you haven't seen it. But it's only eye opening because he was so horrendous from 1984-2012. It's not like he was considered a great worker by any stretch. He was considered pretty good for a man his size.

People also have selective memories when it comes to Hogan's opponents. Yes, he faced tons shitty of monsters like Bundy, Kamala, Andre, Killer Khan, zombie Undertaker etc. But he also faced some of the best workers of the era, like Terry Funk, Ric Flair, Harley Race, Curt Hennig, etc. And even against those guys, he never produced a classic match. I'm fairly confident that if John Cena worked with Terry Funk in 1986 or Curt Hennig in 1991, that he would have had far better matches than Hogan did.

Anyway, the basis of the argument on the Hogan side on the other board I was talking about, was that Hogan was a better worker because his matches got over better and he was a better draw. Nobody here attempted to make that argument, which is an argument I find ridiculous. That may make Hogan a smarter worker than Cena, for saving his body and not killing himself and doing the easy 8 minute match all those years, but it doesn't make him better. The people ate it up because he was charismatic, not because the match structure was fantastic. Great matches do not draw, stars draw. They are mutually exclusive. Brad Armstrong is a better worker than both of these guys and he never drew a penny.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

At their best...Hogan. Most charismatic in-ring performer, ever. He got his matches over like a million bucks and all of his matches had "big match feel" which, IMO, made for better, more entertaining, matches.
Overall...Cena, over the long haul has put together a more consistent body of match work with an array of performers.

Will get to this thread with more detail...got married this past weekend...not much time for posting.

[FedEx227]

Definitely Cena. There's a number of things you can judge it by. There's no doubt that Hogan had a bigger impact on the world of wrestling but I think Cena is a far better in-ring guy. It's not even close. Hogan had ONE style, ever, no matter who he was against or what type of match (ignoring his Japan stuff). Cena, on the other hand, can hit to all-fields. He can hold his own (when carried) in a technical match, can do hardcore, can do squash, can do big man match, etc.