Hockey Hall of Fame

[Warner2BruceTD]

I know nothing about the Hockey Hall of Fame. Are there vicious yearly debates, like with the Baseball (and to a lesser extent, Football) Hall of Fame? Are the standards high, like football, or is it more of a "Hall of Very Good", like baseball?

[killgod]

I don't know if I'd say they get too vicious, but it's certainly debated for who should go in. I would say the standards are high, I don't think any HOF has players people may question inducted, but generally the players who get into the HHOF were extremely quality players in their time.

[Ravin]

The biggest debate right now with the HHOF is actually putting women into it. That was this years small under headline about the induction about how no female players who many thought should have got in, didn't get it, and no woman has been inducted since 2010, and since then it has been a very long time.

Hockey doesn't seem to have the baseball issue, but also take into account that one baseball team has enough players on the field as both teams first lines, so that is a lot more players to look at.

Next years list looks like this:
(First timers)
Chris Chelios
Scott Niedermayer
Rob Blake
Rod Brind'Amour
Keith Tkachuk
Paul Kariya
Owen Nolan

(Second year)
Brendan Shanahan, Eric Lindros, Dave Andreychuk, Jeremy Roenick, Theoren Fleury, Markus Naslund, Curtis Joseph, Tom Barrasso, Phil Housley, Mike Vernon, John LeClair, Sergei Makarov and Guy Carbonneau

Chelios has got to be a lock, as does Niedermayer. Niedermayer has multiple cups and gold medals, so he will for sure make it in on the first try. Chelios I just can't see them saying no since he played till he was 50, and funny enough, if he would have retired at a normal 40, he would probably already be in. Then from there you really have to start looking and comparing at who is left. Of the second year guys, IMO only Shanahan, Lindros and Andreychuk have a legit shot at it. I am one of the people who thinks Lindros isn't, and needs a weak year, because he didn't win a cup, had an amazing junior career and yes, his career was cut short by concussions, but still. Rob Blake might get in, but might need to wait a year.

[calgaryballer]

I'd agree with you on those. I don't think Lindros is a HoFer. At first glance, I thought maybe Leclair. But he didn't rack up as many points as I thought he did on those mid 90s Flyers teams.

Chelios and Niedermeyer would be my only two. Everyone else was very good, but never the best.

CuJo has the most wins of a goalie never to play in the Stanley Cup finals. I will always have soft spot for him from those late 90s Oilers teams

I'd be open to Blake. He has a Cup, and was a Second Team All Star in that season (LOL, Roman Cechmanek was the second team goalie that season)

[killgod]

Curtis Joseph carried alot of bad teams further than deserved to be. That angle might get him somewhere.

Put CuJo in Marty's defensive setup in NJ and I think he wins himself a cup.

[calgaryballer]

Looking back, here are the entrees from recent years

2011 - Ed Belfour, Doug Gilmour, Mark Howe, Joe Nieuendyk - no real qualms. I don't know enough about Howe, but he's probably the weakest
2010 - Dino Cicarelli, IMO this is a bit weak. Some women and builders etc, whatevves
2009 - Hull, Leetch, Yzerman, Robitalle. Absolutely no bones to pick. Great class
2008 - Glenn Anderson, Igor Larionov. Anderson racked up the points playing on the 80s Oilers and Larionov was a very good player on the Wings + had a good career for the USSR

Anyways. You get the point. Going back to 2003, the only one I'd argue with is Pat Lafontaine. He always struck me as good, but nothing special. Got 1000 points, which is a big marker, but overall I was always meh.

Also, the Hockey Hall of Fame page feels like it was made on GeoCities. Images maps and terribly formatted blocks of text

[Guest]

I agree with the list that Ravin put down for possibilities this year, but I would sub out Lindros for Roenick. Both don't have Cups, but Roenick's longer career and openness (hell, the guy didn't have a filter) will get him some points with voters. CuJo probably also gets in on a down year like Lindros as well.

[Ravin]

I'd go Chelios, Niedermayer, Shanahan and Andreychuk.

I picked Andreychuk because he has the stats to back it up, more so then I would say Lindros, plus a cup. Though again, Lindros' career was cut short. He has the 5th most game played in NHL history, 14th on the list of goals scored and has the record for most PPG.

[ssags11]

Looking back, here are the entrees from recent years

2011 - Ed Belfour, Doug Gilmour, Mark Howe, Joe Nieuendyk - no real qualms. I don't know enough about Howe, but he's probably the weakest
2010 - Dino Cicarelli, IMO this is a bit weak. Some women and builders etc, whatevves
2009 - Hull, Leetch, Yzerman, Robitalle. Absolutely no bones to pick. Great class
2008 - Glenn Anderson, Igor Larionov. Anderson racked up the points playing on the 80s Oilers and Larionov was a very good player on the Wings + had a good career for the USSR

Anyways. You get the point. Going back to 2003, the only one I'd argue with is Pat Lafontaine. He always struck me as good, but nothing special. Got 1000 points, which is a big marker, but overall I was always meh.

Also, the Hockey Hall of Fame page feels like it was made on GeoCities. Images maps and terribly formatted blocks of text

Just a few observations. Anyone who saw Mark Howe play would disagree with you that he doesn't belong. Howe had a fantastic international career to go along with his outstanding WHA and NHL career. Add in before he became a Flyer he had almost had a career ending injury and was traded to the Flyers because of it but instead he took off again to post some of his best seasons. He had some incredibly outstanding seasons but much like Brad Park playing during Orrs era, Howe played behind Paul Coffey record breaking seasons. 4 time first team selections, Memorial Cup MVP, Silver Medalist for Team USA and ROY.

If anything Joey Nieuendyk is the guy that probably should not have made it in and I still disagree with him getting in there. Never broke 100 points in a season, had 2 50 goal season but that was during the the days when anyone could score. Only one NHL award and that was the Conn Symthe, no first or second team selections. If you look at his stats after 7 years in the league, Nieuendyk becomes nothing special and only an above average player. Being apart of 3 Stanley Cup teams and captaining one, is the only reason he makes it in. And to me, he was not a great among his peers. Nieuendyk is probably one of the weakest picks the HoF has ever seen.

[ssags11]

Anyways. You get the point. Going back to 2003, the only one I'd argue with is Pat Lafontaine. He always struck me as good, but nothing special. Got 1000 points, which is a big marker, but overall I was always meh.

Also, the Hockey Hall of Fame page feels like it was made on GeoCities. Images maps and terribly formatted blocks of text

Patty gets in because he reached the milestones of being a 1000 point player plus over 300 goals and at the time when he reached that milestone there were only 50 other players to hit the big 1000. There still only 79 players to get that high. And he did it on 15 seasons and after being Mr Concussion for the last 5 years of his career. It's realistic to think he could have put 500 more points if it wasn't for that hit that basically ruined his career. He has a 1.17 point per game career, that's outstanding and very few come close to that mark and if you look at the list of players that are around that average points per game, you understand why Patty belongs.

[ssags11]

This quote is taken from the HoF:

According to their criteria, the key criteria for forwards and defensemen selected for the Hall of Fame are All-Star game appearances, assists, goals and (to a lesser extent) plus/minus and Stanley Cup wins.

To a lesser extent they also use shot percentage (goalies excluded) but that is what they use and they use it in that order. Meaning All Star game appearances is their number one criteria for admission.

[ssags11]

The biggest debate right now with the HHOF is actually putting women into it. That was this years small under headline about the induction about how no female players who many thought should have got in, didn't get it, and no woman has been inducted since 2010, and since then it has been a very long time.

Hockey doesn't seem to have the baseball issue, but also take into account that one baseball team has enough players on the field as both teams first lines, so that is a lot more players to look at.

Next years list looks like this:
(First timers)
Chris Chelios
Scott Niedermayer
Rob Blake
Rod Brind'Amour
Keith Tkachuk
Paul Kariya
Owen Nolan

(Second year)
Brendan Shanahan, Eric Lindros, Dave Andreychuk, Jeremy Roenick, Theoren Fleury, Markus Naslund, Curtis Joseph, Tom Barrasso, Phil Housley, Mike Vernon, John LeClair, Sergei Makarov and Guy Carbonneau

Chelios has got to be a lock, as does Niedermayer. Niedermayer has multiple cups and gold medals, so he will for sure make it in on the first try. Chelios I just can't see them saying no since he played till he was 50, and funny enough, if he would have retired at a normal 40, he would probably already be in. Then from there you really have to start looking and comparing at who is left. Of the second year guys, IMO only Shanahan, Lindros and Andreychuk have a legit shot at it. I am one of the people who thinks Lindros isn't, and needs a weak year, because he didn't win a cup, had an amazing junior career and yes, his career was cut short by concussions, but still. Rob Blake might get in, but might need to wait a year.

Good analysis. Yes, Chelios and Niedermeyer are locks.

You missed a few that are up for votes. Mark Recchi, Peter Forsberg, Sergi Federov, Chris Osgood and Dominik Hasek.

Recchi - will be interesting, but if they put Nicholls and Ciccarelli in, doesn't that mean Recchi has to go in? He did amass over 1500 points and almost 150 playoff points, three Cups and might have been one of the most durable players to ever play, he was an ironman. Prediction - borderline but he will wait a few years on a down year for selections.

Forsberg - injuries injuries injuries and it's a shame because he could have been one of the greats. Prediction - Gets in

Hasak - He has to go in, he has more awards than any goalie to ever play. 2 Harts, 6 Vezinas, 2 Cups and the record for goalies with a .922 saving percentage. Prediction- in and it's not even close.

Osgood - He is closer than you think. There are not any 400 game winners and 3 Cup champion goalies that are not in the Hall already. But, is Osgood really top of his class? I don't think so. Prediction- not this year but maybe eventually he sneaks in like Recchi will.

Federov- Tough one, but he does have an MVP, several Cups and maybe the best two way forward to play the game. I think he gets in but not this year. Prediction- 2014 class.

So I am thinking the 2013 HOF class will be Hasak, Chelios, Neidermayer and Shannahan.

[Ravin]

Hasak is a for sure, not even a question.

I'll lump Forsberg and Federov in the same, as I think they both get in, just it may take a year or so when the front class isn't some tough. When you look at the list of first timers, its is hard not to put in Chelios, Neider and Hasak first try, and the fourth guy will be between Shannahan, Forsberg and Federov. I say Recchi gets in but it may take 1-4 years.

[ssags11]

Hasak is a for sure, not even a question.

I'll lump Forsberg and Federov in the same, as I think they both get in, just it may take a year or so when the front class isn't some tough. When you look at the list of first timers, its is hard not to put in Chelios, Neider and Hasak first try, and the fourth guy will be between Shannahan, Forsberg and Federov. I say Recchi gets in but it may take 1-4 years.

I just looked into Hasak to see when he retired, turns out I was wrong, he is not a first timer this year. I guess he just retired again back in Oct 2012.

So, I revise my list to Chelios, Neidermayer, Shannahan and I am going to go out on a limp and say Roenick.

He gets in because of NHL 1996 he was just unstoppable in that video game