Calgary Flames avoid potential disaster lulz with Ryan O'Riley

[Kuzzy Powers]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=417108

 

The Calgary Flames could have paid a higher price than draft picks if the Colorado Avalanche didn't match the offer for restricted free agent forward Ryan O'Reilly - namely, Ryan O'Reilly.

According to the Kontinental Hockey League's website, O'Reilly - who was unsigned until Thursday night - played for Metallurg Magnitogorsk on Jan. 21 and Jan. 23 (written in the game sheets as 'Rayan O Rayli'). And as NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly told TSN on Friday, O'Reilly would have had to clear waivers to join the Flames if he actually played overseas after the start of the NHL season on Jan. 19.

The NHL's collective bargaining agreement prior to this season stipulated that any player who plays in Europe after start of the NHL regular season needs to clear waivers to play in the same season in the NHL. However, a different interpretation of a new CBA provision was what apparently confused the Flames organization.

"Prior to tendering the offer sheet for Ryan O'Reilly we, as a hockey operations department, examined whether there were any impediments to our successfully securing the services of the player including, but not limited to, his having played in the KHL after the start of the current NHL season," Flames GM Jay Feaster explained in a team statement on Friday.

"Our interpretation of the Article 13 transition rules governing restricted free agents and the applicability of Article 13.23 under the new Collective Bargaining Agreement to such RFA's was, and continues to be, different than the NHL's current interpretation as articulated to us this morning. Moreover, throughout our discussions, the player's representative shared our interpretation and position with respect to the non-applicability of Article 13.23.

While we were prepared to advance our position with the NHL, in light of Colorado's having matched the offer sheet it is now an academic point. As such, we will have no further comment on the matter, the player, or the offer sheet process."

The move isn't unfamiliar to NHL teams, as Evgeni Nabokov was claimed by the New York Islanders from the Detroit Red Wings under the same circumstances in 2011 and the Nashville Predators plucked Marek Svatos off waivers from St. Louis.

The Avalanche matched the Flames' offer sheet to O'Reilly just hours after Feaster announced the deal in a media statement on Thursday. Had the Avalanche not matched Calgary's offer, the club would have received the Flames' first and third-round picks in this year's draft.

O'Reilly's agent Pat Morris told TSN Radio 1050 that he was not aware of the waivers scenario. "I would not put any team in that kind of position," he said. "There were other teams that were speaking about offer sheets for a long time on Ryan O'Reilly and consulting with people at the league level on structure and format.

"We still haven't seen the CBA, the agreement is in place but I don't think the document is complete for anyone's eyes to read so that issue is the first I've heard of that. At the same time, one would have believed that Calgary doing what they did would have gotten the player if Colorado had made a decision not to match."

Morris added that he never got any indication from the Flames that they were aware of this provision in the CBA. "It wasn't discussed between the parties," he said.

The two-year offer carries an average annual value of $5 million. O'Reilly will make $1 million in base salary for this season with a signing bonus worth $2.5 million. His 2013-14 salary will be $6.5 million.

According to TSN Hockey Insider Bob McKenzie, the new collective bargaining agreement also allows the Avalanche to put O'Reilly back in their own lineup without clearing waivers.

While Article 13:23 in the pre-2012-13 CBA specified that any player who plays in Europe after start of NHL regular season needs to clear waivers to play in the same season in the NHL, the recent Memorandum of Understanding between the league and Players' Association says all players on a club's reserve list and RFA list will be exempt from the application of 13:23.

Therefore, teams can now sign their own restricted free agents or draft picks out of Europe in mid-season and get them into their NHL lineup without risking them being plucked off the wire.

Morris added that he expects both O'Reilly and the Avalanche to reunite under good terms upon his return to Denver.

"Business disagreements happen all the time in sports and other parts of life," he told TSN Radio 1050. "It's resolved now I'm sure all sides are happy with that and Ryan gets to play hockey again. There's no ill feeling from Ryan, I would expect given that Colorado has gotten a good young player back with their team is moving forward and what happened in the past can stay there."

To sum it up basically because O'Riley played overseas after the January 19th deadline, he would have to clear waivers before being able to sign with the Flames. So the Flames would've likely lost O'Riley thru waivers, and still had to give up a first and a third rounder to the Avs for nothing basically. This obviously would've been an epic goof on the Flames part. Pretty bad on O'Riley's agent part too to not know the situation and allow him to play after the cut off. This probably would've been one of the biggest blunders in the history of sports.. but cot damn it would've been hilarious.

[ssags11]

Fuck Ryan O'Reilly and fuck Av's GM Sherman for giving in. This kid better be the next Paul Coffey or he will live with this stain forever. I know no matter how good he is, I would never want a douche like O'Reilly on the Bruins. Don't need unproven punks acting like football players in this league. Look how great Lindros was and how much he has suffered for holding out, demanding money throughout his career, it has cost him a selection into the HoF.

[Ravin]

I tend to also look at this from another view. O'Reilly got his money, now it is put up or shut up time. And you know, the contract may be "high" but it isn't insane to a degree that the Avs are stuck with him for life, and it is only two years for a team who is near the bottom of the cap floor. I tend to think O'Reilly just fucked himself hard because now if he doesn't put up Matt Duchene numbers, he is going to be the goat on the team and in his next contract talks.

Compare the two

Ryan O'Reilly
2009-10: 81GP, 8G, 18A, 26pts
2010-11: 74GP, 13G, 13A, 26pts
2011-12: 81GP, 18G, 37A, 55pts

Matt Duchene
2009-10: 81GP, 24G, 31A, 55pts
2010-11: 80GP, 27G, 40A, 67pts
2011-12: 58GP, 14G, 14A, 28pts

O'Reilly has one 'breakout year', while Duchene's lowest full season and first season mind you, he covered that. Funny thing is, Duchene and O'Rielly's contracts will both be up at the same time. So if O'Rielly doesn't produce up to the standards of Duchene, it will be very easy for the Avs to say "umm, we pay this guy this amount, and he scores twice as much as you..but no, please explain to us why you think you are worth the same or more money."

[ssags11]

I think we basically said the same thing, however your statement is a little less harsh. He does need to put up or shut up like you said, the pressure is all on him now. It was a bad move on his agent and his part adding Sherman in the mix.

Lindros is the comparison for players holding out. O'Reilly is no where near that talent. Lindros will be forever locked out of HoF because his similar negotiation tactics like O'Reilly. Lindros is a top 100 player in the history of the game, lesser talents and non-HoFer (IMO) like Joe Nieuwendyk got in and Lindros is still out. O'Reilly is a stained player, it is going to take alot to shake this.

[leaffan]

I tend to think he was holding out cuz Colorado was really low balling him. They're original offer was said to be 2 years at 3.5per which imo is a little low for his talents.

People tend to look at him see his stats and say he's just a guy who had 55pts last season why does he think he deserves 5mil a season. His defensive play is why its worth it. He's effectively being compared to guys like Kesler (5mil a season), Backes (4.5mil a season), Bergeron (5mil a season) and Jordan Staal (6mil a year next season, 4mil a year on his old contract). So he's 22 years old, already having comparible traits towards a selke winner and the leagues top two way forwards, played the most mins against top lines in the entire league last year and still put up better numbers in takeaway and corsi numbers over the likes of Datsyuk and company. He's certaintly worth 5mil a year imo. If they would of given him a 5 year deal at 4.5 a year (something he might have taken) that contract would probably be one of the best moneyball contracts in the entire NHL.

[leaffan]

I think we basically said the same thing, however your statement is a little less harsh. He does need to put up or shut up like you said, the pressure is all on him now. It was a bad move on his agent and his part adding Sherman in the mix.

Lindros is the comparison for players holding out. O'Reilly is no where near that talent. Lindros will be forever locked out of HoF because his similar negotiation tactics like O'Reilly. Lindros is a top 100 player in the history of the game, lesser talents and non-HoFer (IMO) like Joe Nieuwendyk got in and Lindros is still out. O'Reilly is a stained player, it is going to take alot to shake this.

The Lindros hold out and O'Reillys hold out are two completely different situations and this statement is dumb imo.

[Ravin]

Lindros not in the Hall has more to do with his injuries and not winning the big one more then it does his stat line. He won the Hart trophy only once, and the Lester B once. He will always be one of those "what if" players, but I don't think he wins a cup, simply because he had the chance with the Flyers on a really good team, but they just ran into a even better Red Wings team, and he just never got them back.

He will probably get in at some point. Saying Joe Nieuwendyk is lesser of a talent then Lindros is a bit of a shot at Joe. The guy is a three time Cup Champion in three different decades (89, 99, 03), a Conn Smyth winner and was one of the games elite two-way players.

[ssags11]

The Lindros hold out and O'Reillys hold out are two completely different situations and this statement is dumb imo.

IMO Any player that holds out is held to that of Lindros's holdouts. Situations very different but the act of holding out is the same, is not an exact comparison, it's an overall comparison.

[ssags11]

Lindros not in the Hall has more to do with his injuries and not winning the big one more then it does his stat line. He won the Hart trophy only once, and the Lester B once. He will always be one of those "what if" players, but I don't think he wins a cup, simply because he had the chance with the Flyers on a really good team, but they just ran into a even better Red Wings team, and he just never got them back.

He will probably get in at some point. Saying Joe Nieuwendyk is lesser of a talent then Lindros is a bit of a shot at Joe. The guy is a three time Cup Champion in three different decades (89, 99, 03), a Conn Smyth winner and was one of the games elite two-way players.

Joe was above average, he was a star player, he was not a super star, he was never generational talent nor did he ever stand out against his peers. His induction brings the hall down, it's one of the worst inductions in history.

If the Conn Smythe is a measuring stick for you than here comes Tim Thomas, JS Giguere, Brad Richards, Mike Veron, Yvan Cournoyer and oddly enough since Butch Goring was just complaining about not being put in the Hall (and he has a point) will all be put in the Hall.

Nieuwendyk has ZERO first or second team selections, no other hardware to speak of, 1/2 of his career was played before the DPE which inflated his stats. The importance of ZERO 1st and 2nd team selections stand out to me the most,that to me means he was never the best player in the league or at his position at any time of his career, he was never even 2nd best at his position. Nieuwendyk got in because the writers, HoF voters liked him, not because he was one of the best to ever play. He has longevity in the league which also pads his stats.

Want a comparison to Lindros? Cam Neely. Lindros has a Hart, 1st and 2nd team selections, and he stood out in juniors winning awards down there too.

WHOOPS Lindros also has a Lester Pearson/Lindsey

[Ravin]

I need to go take back all my positive rep, because you clearly are an idiot. I stopped reading after you said Joe Nieuwendyk is one of the worst inductions in history. I guess we better get rid of a lot of players who were 'pre-dead puck era' in the hall then.

I guess Doug Gilmour was a shit Hall of Famer to you. No first or second team all star, only one award.
Better get rid of Adam Oates as well, only 1 second team All-Star, no cup, no other awards. Useless bum.

And of course the writers like him. Because there job is to look at what a player does in the game and not just the hype of the player, and get them in. Hence why Joe Nieuwendyk is in and Lindros is currently not. Nieuwendyk may not have a sexy name like Lindros with all the hype and story behind it, but you do have to recognize his play. I guess because he didn't put on a Bruins uniform you would not know about him.

[ssags11]

I need to go take back all my positive rep, because you clearly are an idiot. I stopped reading after you said Joe Nieuwendyk is one of the worst inductions in history. I guess we better get rid of a lot of players who were 'pre-dead puck era' in the hall then.

I guess Doug Gilmour was a shit Hall of Famer to you. No first or second team all star, only one award.
Better get rid of Adam Oates as well, only 1 second team All-Star, no cup, no other awards. Useless bum.

And of course the writers like him. Because there job is to look at what a player does in the game and not just the hype of the player, and get them in. Hence why Joe Nieuwendyk is in and Lindros is currently not. Nieuwendyk may not have a sexy name like Lindros with all the hype and story behind it, but you do have to recognize his play. I guess because he didn't put on a Bruins uniform you would not know about him.

Right...I get you now. If you don't agree, than that person is an idiot. I get it. Do you cry and take your puck home when you don't get your way too?

Well big guy, why not prove to me why Joey belongs instead of calling me an idiot. All you told me was he won a Conn Smythe, great ... I pointed out how many others have won a Conn Smythe and are not in. Fuck guy, even Butch Goring has more reasons to get in than Joey. It's Hall of Fame not Hall of Above Average. Show me at any point in Joey's career he was the best of the best! Longevity is not being the best.

Your examples are bad. Adam Oates was considered the best passer of his generation slightly under the Great One, but look at the struggle even Oates had to get in. Gilmour, is another one, at his peak he was one of the best, several Hart nominations,a Selke, and he has a ton of records on the NHL's most prolific franchise, over 1400 points, 450 goals, over a point per game, he is a no brainer.

Oh and fucking pussy...telling someone they are a Homer is not a defense or an argument, man the fuck up and prove Joey belongs. FYI- do you know how many people point to Nieuwendyk being one of the worst selections? MANY, so you man the fuck up for once instead of being a fuck nut.

[ssags11]

I'll add this for another reason for not putting Nieuwencyk in.

Claude Lemieux has 3 Cups and a Conn Symthe, does this make C Lemieux a shoe-in also?

Seriously, you need to come up with more than that to convince many people that believe he doesn't belong. And if you harp on this DPE more, I'll break out the adjusted stats to see where he lands.

This is the second time you came out swinging "stupid" over a topic that has honest debate. You act like I am the only one that thinks this, there are a lot of people unhappy with JN's selections, more than that are happy with it. I can tell you that.

[Ravin]

This coming from the guy who said he only got in because the writers like him. Yeah, I need to come up with a better argument.

[ssags11]

This coming from the guy who said he only got in because the writers like him. Yeah, I need to come up with a better argument.

Thats all you got? Do you even read, I have pointed to a whole lot fucking more than that. Prove it dude, I'm tired of your bullshit. I have put up plenty of reasons. I can even add thread after thread of people pointing to why he doesn't belong. Now you show us why he does.

All you said was Conn Smythe and 3 Cups, so I guess Claude Lemieux belongs too! Nieuwendyk was never the best of the best at any point of his career, not once, no selections, no Hart nominations or votes, so why does he belong or are you going to continue being a punk?

[Ravin]

I'm sorry, I didn't know you wanted a 1000 word article on the subject. I'm surprised you do since I'm one of those dumb hockey writers who like him and voted him in.