HOF poll on Observer site

[Warner2BruceTD]

WHAT ACTIVE WRESTLER NOT IN THE HALL OF FAME IS THE BEST CANDIDATE?
Sting 43.1%
C.M. Punk 16.9%
Hiroshi Tanahashi 14.2%
L.A. Park 5.3%
A.J. Styles 4.9%
Randy Orton 3.3%
Jun Akiyama 3.3%
Kensuke Sasaki 2.5%
Yuji Nagata 2.3%
Dr. Wagner Jr. 2.1%
Minoru Suzuki 1.1%
Atlantis 1.1%

Here's how i'd rank them. I'd put in the bold:

Sasaki - I'm baffled at the fact he still isn't in. Sold out the Tokyo Dome multiple times, genuine top star for 20 years, only man to hold IWGP, Triple Crown, & GHC titles, successful trainer and runs his own promotion (Diamond Ring).

Tanahashi - Last year or so gets him in. Workrate he has few equals, ever. Proven draw whose latest run on top helped take his promotion to a new level of international popularity. One of the greatest big match performers of all time. A legend in our midst.

Sting - Some days, I put him in. Others, I don't. Today, I do. Check back tomorrow. Best argument is his longevity at or near the top. Lack of WWE run or strong track record of drawing hurts him with voters and always will.

CM Punk - Not yet. Would not be offended if he got in, however. Hard to quantify as a draw due to his era. 'Summer of Punk' & the MITB/pipe bomb run are legendary moments of his era. Match quality is not an issue. Has he ever truly been the top guy?

Dr. Wagner Jr - Same boat as Punk. Put him in, I dont care. Still building the resume, but it's already probably good enough or really close.

Jun Akiyama - Same question as Punk - was he ever really the top guy? Match quality is no issue, but then again, what are his classics? None that pop up immediately. This guy is Ken Anderson (the football QB) - in other words, he is the line. If you're better than Akiyama, you're in.

Atlantis - see above. Best known for his classic mask vs mask match where he took the mask of Villano III (2000 Wrestling Observer 'Match of the Year')

Minoru Suzuki - Don't forget his Pancrase days. He's probably closer than you think, thanks to his fantastic late career run as the top heel in New Japan during what is a renaissance period for the company. Underrated worker who works a style that is unique to him. Charisma for days. Never the top guy, even in Pancrase.

LA Park - WCW run as a mid carder doesn't help. Bounces around too much to truly be a top guy anywhere, even though he's considered a top lucha star overall. Has gotten better with age.

Yuji Nagata - Running theme - was he ever truly the top guy, even as IWGP champ? Work isn't the issue.

Randy Orton - Broken record. Never the top guy. Even in modern WWE, safe to say he isn't a HOF level draw. Classic matches? Eh. Works to the level of his opponent. Too many stinkers, not enough classics. Classic upper mid carder who is pushed at a higher level than he really is. What makes him any better than a guy like Scott Hall? Curt Hennig? Nagata or Akiyama? None of those guys are in, and probably never will be.

AJ Styles - I am a huge AJ Styles fan. Not even close or even worthy of discussion.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I would say that Sasaki killing that kid in training is what's keeping him out, but it's his own region not voting him in, and the Japanese have a totally different attitude towards what the rest of the planet would consider abusive training practices.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I should also note that the poll results always skew American because the polls are public and not restricted to paying members of the site.

[Aso]

Isn't Sting in the TNA HOF? Nothing else matters!

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I really have a problem when you start using the word "top guy" because unless you are one of maybe 10 guys post-territory era, you weren't really a top guy in the United States, which makes for a really shitty and small Hall of Fame.

[EmpireWF]

In WWE, since 2005, do you count guys like Batista, Edge and Punk? If you do, you may have to count Orton, and I'm not much of a fan of his so I'd be inclined to say no.

But, they all took a back seat to Cena.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I really have a problem when you start using the word "top guy" because unless you are one of maybe 10 guys post-territory era, you weren't really a top guy in the United States, which makes for a really shitty and small Hall of Fame.

That's the standards the voters use, so that's how I use it.

Let's take Akiyama, for example. He left All Japan on the way up, never the top guy there. In NOAH, it was always Misawa & Kobashi. Even when Akiyama was champion, he wasn't THE guy. He's kinda sorta the top guy now, back in All Japan. But SUWAMA is the native ace.

If you were the top guy and you drew real money, you're in. So it becomes easy. If you are other worldly as a worker, you're in (Angle, Benoit, soon to be Daniel Bryan, etc). What we see with the majority of the guys above, are a bunch of dudes who are on the cusp of being elite in both areas, but probably aren't in either. Punk, for example, really rides the line. But he has other intangibles. Akiyama really rides both lines.

If this is the W2B HOF, i'm probably drawing the line at Akiyama instead of Sting. But i'm analyzing this from the basis of how they will really be broken down.

[Warner2BruceTD]

In WWE, since 2005, do you count guys like Batista, Edge and Punk? If you do, you may have to count Orton, and I'm not much of a fan of his so I'd be inclined to say no.

But, they all took a back seat to Cena.

I think all three of those guys were bigger stars than Orton. Especially Batista. But all of them, really. Quite easily, in fact.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

That's the standards the voters use, so that's how I use it.

Let's take Akiyama, for example. He left All Japan on the way up, never the top guy there. In NOAH, it was always Misawa & Kobashi. Even when Akiyama was champion, he wasn't THE guy. He's kinda sorta the top guy now, back in All Japan. But SUWAMA is the native ace.

If you were the top guy and you drew real money, you're in. So it becomes easy. If you are other worldly as a worker, you're in (Angle, Benoit, soon to be Daniel Bryan, etc). What we see with the majority of the guys above, are a bunch of dudes who are on the cusp of being elite in both areas, but probably aren't in either. Punk, for example, really rides the line. But he has other intangibles. Akiyama really rides both lines.

If this is the W2B HOF, i'm probably drawing the line at Akiyama instead of Sting. But i'm analyzing this from the basis of how they will really be broken down.

My problem with it is...there really isn't a standard...its extremely loose, "top guy" is a very loose interpretation.

Sting was a top guy...really by any definition...the argument of the semantics of it, is why the term "top guy" is silly.

[s@ppisgod]

Alls I'm sayin is, if Foley is in, Sting should be in.

[EmpireWF]

Alls I'm sayin is, if Foley is in, Sting should be in.

Foley was more influential than Sting ever was.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Foley elevated more people he worked with than any wrestler I could possibly think of.

If you were a major player in the 90's, odds are, Mick Foley took you to another level working with him. A very rare trait, and one that not many can compete with.

Whether it was Sting himself, Vader, the entire ECW brand, Austin, Rock, H's, Mr. McMahon, Edge, Orton, Michaels, Undertaker...the list goes on and on, its really ridiculous.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Foley was more influential than Sting ever was.

Foley was more influential and was a better worker, IMO...but Sting was a better draw, given the ball to be a star, and was a bigger star.

[Warner2BruceTD]

..but Sting was a better draw, given the ball to be a star, and was a bigger star.

Not even close. We've been over this.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Not even close. We've been over this.

Foley has never actually been a draw or really been given the ball to draw, so Sting being even a loss would conclude him being a better draw and star.

And, we have been over it...but it seems you don't remember some of the facts presented, like some of Sting's main evented or "featured" event PPVs actually had higher buyrates than the previous year, and Sting being the feature performer of the biggest buyrate PPV up until WrestleMania X7.

You can mention house show gates until you're blue in the face, but the factors that go into that make those numbers often skewed.

I'm not saying Sting is a big draw, but you mooks over at the Observer have bashed his drawing power so much, its actually an underrated attribute at this point. He's not some blackhole of money, he also wasn't Hogan or Cena...but, he had his moments where he was the top guy and drew in some metric, if even a little.