2014 WON Hall of Fame ballot

**Warner2BruceTD** · 09-05-2014, 05:23 PM

The big news is the added wrinkle of eliminating candidates who have been on the ballot for 15 years and who do not receive 50% of the vote. Every single person on that list is in danger of being tossed off the ballot. Some, like Murdoch, Ventura, & Rock 'n Roll Express, could either be voted in, or get tossed. Lots of talk among voters of voting for people on that list to "save" them for another year. I won't do that. I'm voting for who I feel deserves it, and then i'm letting the chips fall where they may.

Meltzer added lucha trios this year. Junkyard Dog is back, as is Ultimate Warrior.

CM Punk, Jun Akiyama, Minoru Suzuki are new to the ballot.

"TenKoji" has been added to the Japan category as a team (I believe both have fallen off the ballot as singles), I guess based on the last few years of adding to the resume by getting back together and winning a bunch of IWGP & NWA tag titles.

George Scott is an interesting addition. He was the booker of the early Hulkamania era before he butted heads with Hogan and was let go. Vince & Patterson took over from there. Scott also booked in other places like the Carolinas for Corckett, etc.

I think i'm directly responsible for King Kong Czaja being added. I suggested him last year on the Observer board. Drew a bunch of largely undocumented monster gates (100,000+) in India vs Dara Singh (a first ballot HOF'er), and Japan in the early days vs Rikidozan and others in the 40's, 50's, and 60's.

Jan Wilkens is the first African candidate, from South Africa. Ryan Clingman (who is a South African), who publishes Cubed Circle Newsletter, got him on the ballot. I know nothing about him.

Von Brauners & Saul Weingeroff were added as an American based trio. Brute Bernard (the basis for the Giant Bernard gimmick Lord Tensai portrayed in Japan, because he looked like him) & Skull Murphy were added as an Australian tag team.

Mexico is loaded and the Mexican voters are annoyed because most feel they can fill their entire 10-person ballot from Mexico alone. This is why it's probably a good idea to drop guys after 15 years. The ballot is just too cluttered.

**MrBill** · 09-05-2014, 05:30 PM

Well done on getting a vote to help decide this years HOF inductees

**Warner2BruceTD** · 09-05-2014, 05:31 PM

My ballot last year. I vote US & Japan only, plus non-wrestlers.

1. Rock & Roll Express - Fell a few votes short. I will vote for them again, and lobby hard for others to do so. Criminal that they aren't in yet, and disturbing that they may fall of the ballot entirely.

2. Hiroshi Tanahashi - He got in.

3. Kensuke Sasaki - He got in.

4. Pedro Morales - Has been moved to the Historical category, which I do not vote for. So I won't be voting for him this year. He's not getting 50%, so adios Pedro.

5. Brock Lesnar - I regret voting for Brock. I have changed my stance and no longer consider drawing in UFC to be meaningful in a pro wrestling HOF, even if he drew in UFC due to being a pro wrestler. I won't be voting for him unless Network subscription numbers come in from SummerSlam and there is a very significant jump. Otherwise, his resume is far too thin as a draw and as a worker.

1. Jimmy Hart - Will be voting for him again, and every year, until he gets in. Should be in on Memphis work alone.

2. Jerry Jarrett - See above.

3. Takashi Matsunaga - He got in.

4. Don Owen - He's never getting in, but I will keep plugging away. Anybody who lasted as long as he did, kept his nose clean, and doesn't have a single person who ever worked for him dislike him has my support.

**Warner2BruceTD** · 09-05-2014, 05:40 PM

For this year, i'm off the fence when it comes to Gene Okerlund. I'm voting for Mean Gene for sure. The best hype man ever. Realistically he probably drew more money than a lot of these people on the ballot with the WCW 900 Hotline alone, which was the end of his career and well after his best work (which was AWA & early WWF) was long in the rear view.

Will consider Gary Hart, George Scott, & Jesse Ventura for the 5th non-wrestler spot. Maybe Monsoon too, if I see good research of him as a promoter in P.R. & WWWF.

Considering CM Punk, Jun Akiyama, Akira Taue (who is back on the ballot), Junkyard Dog (researching his Mid South drawing record), Mike & Ben Sharpe, and maybe Slaughter & Gran Hamada.

Because I got Czaja on the ballot, I may vote for him just to give me an excuse to vote in the Australia/PR/Africa category, which will allow me to vote for Carlos Colon, who missed by ONE VOTE last year, and who I had typed into my Lesnar slot before changing my mind literally at 11:59 at the deadline when I felt guilty about voting for a region I wasn't very knowledgeable in. If Colon was in the US/Canada region where he belongs, i'd 100% vote for him.

**Guest** · 09-06-2014, 12:52 AM

There is nothing to worry about politically about any involvement in this process

Is that really a concern for this? I would think not, but you never know.

I also expect Mean Gene to get in based off all the exposure from the WCW PPVs on the Network relating to the 1-800 number. Just something about nostalgia being brought back.

**Warner2BruceTD** · 09-06-2014, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by ThomasTomasz

Is that really a concern for this? I would think not, but you never know.

Well, not so much for a guy like me who votes as a reporter, but you have wrestlers voting for their bosses and vice versa in some cases, not to mention other wrestlers that they share locker rooms with. You are talking about a business where people get buried for forgetting to shake somebodies hand or thanking their opponent for a match.

Just voting at all would probably be frowned upon in WWE if outed, even though plenty of those guys do.

Wrestlers are super petty. Colt Cabana said publicly that he won't vote for Rock n Roll Express because he lost respect for Ricky Morton because Morton didn't know the proper name for an O'Conner Roll at a seminar they were conducting. I mean, think about that and let it sink in. COLT CABANA, who hasn't drawn 1% of the money Ricky Morton has drawn, or ever worked in front of a crowd a third of the size of what Morton probably drew on an average night vs the Midnights in the 80's unless it was as a prelim guy in Japan or something.

**EmpireWF** · 09-06-2014, 01:30 PM

1. Gene Okerlund - a no brainer
2. George Scott - booker during Mid-Atlantic's big period and during the initial WWF expansion
3. Gary Hart - how is he not in? Booked WCCW's white hot Freebirds/Von Erichs feud & was one of the classic managers of all time
4. Jim Crockett Jr. - Promoted MACW and while the promotion crashed and burned, when it was hot there were few like it. The Greensboro Coliseum is still considered one of the historic mecas of pro wrestling because of what they did.
5. Howard Finkel - There are others who meant more to drawing money, but there's no doubt that Fink added a lot to the WWF production as a ring announcer. They've never had anyone like him before or after, much like Okerlund and elite talent should be included.

1. Rock & Roll Express - heavily influenced workers who came after and drew well enough to where that shouldn't be a reason they're not in
2. El Signo & El Texano & Negro Navarro (Los Misioneros de la Muerte) - one of or THE best drawing trios ever & popularized trios matches
3. Edge - was a perennial upper card WWE guy for years, very good worker, very good promos
4. Ivan Koloff - How is he not in? A top worker in the 70s, drew well and had one of the most historic matches ever in beating Bruno at MSG
5. Villano III - Great worker, top star in the 80s, his mask vs. mask match with Atlantis (inducted last year) is legendary
6. CM Punk - Great worker (on indies & on big WWE stage), headlined in WWE, great promos
7. Dick Murdoch - Feel he should make it…he's also at a big risk of being taken off future ballots

Future first time candidates:

2015 - Randy Orton & Shinsuke Nakamura (no & yes)
2016 - Daniel Bryan & KENTA (yes & I lean yes, was KENTA much of a draw for NOAH? Because my memories always had him underneath Marufuji/Morishima/Misawa until NOAH was hanging on by a thread.)
2017 - Mistico/original Sin Cara (yes)

**Warner2BruceTD** · 09-06-2014, 01:48 PM

I don't vote lucha, but if I did I would probably vote for about seven of the candidates. Mexico is loaded.

I'm cold on Edge.

I'm still researching Crockett Jr & Sr, trying to figure out which is responsible for what. Jr lost the war, that's a big knock, but at least he tried when everybody else folded the tent.

Glad you brought up the next three years.

2015 - Orton is a no, FedEx research piece showing him as an absolute non draw is the hammer I will drop on people who are leaning yes. Unless you absolutely love his work like Meltzer does, I just can't see it. Pushed as a bigger star than he ever really was.

I would love to say yes to Nak, but I think he needs to beef up the resume a bit more. He obviously has time (as does Orton, to be fair). A long, successful IWGP Title run might cement him. His previous runs were not box office successes, but he hasn't had one with the revamped gimmick. He's underrated as a draw during this hot period. This year alone he headlined Dome, headlined a sold out New Beginning. Granted, both vs Tanahashi but Nak is hardly "just a guy" and had something to do with it, and if you think otherwise, explain drawing vs Bad Luck Fale! Tanahashi & Okada get all of the credit, but Nak is right there with them in terms of being responsible for modern post 2011 New Japan success.

2016 - Daniel Bryan is a stone cold mortal lock. I would have voted for him based on workrate before he ever stepped in a WWE ring. Everything since, including headlining Mania, is just gravy.

KENTA, and it pains me to say this because he's my favorite wrestler ever, is probably a no. Wasn't on top until NOAH was essentially dying, which isn't his fault, but it is what it is. Work is not an issue. The other problem, is unless he main events in WWE, people will use that against him. I want to say yes. Give me a reason. A hot WWE run (and it looks like they will give him every chance) will get him in.

2017 - Mistico was the biggest star in the world for two years, and should get in. But the WWE run is going to KILL him, and he isnt close to the same level of star in AAA as he was in CMLL before he went to WWE. If he gets back close to his previous level, he's a lock. As it stands, failing in WWE is a killer, whether fair or not.

**Guest** · 09-06-2014, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by Warner2BruceTD

Well, not so much for a guy like me who votes as a reporter, but you have wrestlers voting for their bosses and vice versa in some cases, not to mention other wrestlers that they share locker rooms with. You are talking about a business where people get buried for forgetting to shake somebodies hand or thanking their opponent for a match.

Just voting at all would probably be frowned upon in WWE if outed, even though plenty of those guys do.

Wrestlers are super petty. Colt Cabana said publicly that he won't vote for Rock n Roll Express because he lost respect for Ricky Morton because Morton didn't know the proper name for an O'Conner Roll at a seminar they were conducting. I mean, think about that and let it sink in. COLT CABANA, who hasn't drawn 1% of the money Ricky Morton has drawn, or ever worked in front of a crowd a third of the size of what Morton probably drew on an average night vs the Midnights in the 80's unless it was as a prelim guy in Japan or something.

Understood. I didnt even know they let current wrestlers vote, anonymously or not. Is there a ballpark number on invites sent out per year?

**EmpireWF** · 09-06-2014, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by ThomasTomasz

Is there a ballpark number on invites sent out per year?

Last year, the leading U.S. vote getter were the Rock & Roll Express with 194 votes (only 55%), so assuming the U.S. represents the place where the most ballots are sent.....500-700, including all the foreigners, may be too high but in that range.

**Warner2BruceTD** · 09-06-2014, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by ThomasTomasz

Understood. I didnt even know they let current wrestlers vote, anonymously or not. Is there a ballpark number on invites sent out per year?

Active wrestlers, retired wrestlers, promoters/owners/bookers, writers, historians.

**Warner2BruceTD** · 09-06-2014, 11:21 PM

Meltzer on RnRE:

Strengths: Top babyface tag team during the high point of both Bill Watts’ and Jim Crockett’s promotion. Although the Fabulous Ones were really the ones that sparked the genre in Memphis, it was the success of the Rock & Roll Express in 1984 in Mid South that caused numerous territories to come up with copies. While the gimmick made them stars, Morton is lauded as one of the great workers of his era, who turned the babyface in peril role into an art form. Not the top, but one of the stronger drawing tag teams in history and in their heyday had consistently good matches with anyone, and great matches when given top heel workers. For years, Rock & Roll Express vs. Midnight Express tapes were used to teach younger wrestlers how to work a tag team match.

Weaknesses: While the two started teaming in 1983, and still team on occasion on the independent scene, the reality was they were the kind of an act that would be super hot for a year or two in a territory and start to burn out, similar to a teen heartthrob. They were together a long time, but longevity at the big-time level was relatively short, one year with Watts and a couple of years with Crockett. While they carried Smoky Mountain Wrestling for two years in the 90s, that was a small promotion. Their act was better for the territorial era where they probably would have been a hot act everywhere they went for years, and then could double back later in their career. They had the working ability and the influence, were draws, but the longevity as a top act is their main stumbling block. Some argue that because they were around during JCP’s national television era, they are remembered as the best babyface team, but arguments are they were never hotter nor lasted as long on top as Ricky Steamboat & Jay Youngblood.

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Slam dunk, imo. What do they lack? The three components are workrate, drawing, influence. They tick work in a big way, influence in a HUGE way, and if the didn't draw at a HOF level, it was a slight notch below, which is enough when you have the other two components covered like a fucking blanket.

**LiquidLarry2GhostWF** · 09-07-2014, 01:15 AM

Non-Wrestlers
Don Owen - Ridiculous that he isn't in.
Jimmy Hart - He isn't in yet?
Bill Apter - You can't tell story of wrestling and its place in Americana without the Mag boom.
Jerry Jarrett - He isn't in yet?

Other Categories
CM Punk - Gets in on workrate alone. Best big match wrestler in the North America in the past 15 years. The fact that he is a mild draw only adds icing to the cake.
RocknRoll Express - No brainer.
Carlos Colon - No brainer.
Akira Taue - No brainer.
Brock Lesnar - I count his MMA career. He should qualify as a "special attraction" type. I think a Network uptick in buys only adds icing.

oh...and...

**EmpireWF** · 09-07-2014, 08:12 AM

Sting? pfft

2014 WON Hall of Fame ballot

2014 WON Hall of Fame ballot

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