2004 USC > 2001 Miami according to Pat Forde.

[Woy]

I think 05 USC > 08 UF > 04 USC

05 USC over 04 USC?

Amazing offense/mediocre defense or damn good offense/great defense?

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

[BUCK3YE5]

USC had an offensive juggernaut in 05 and their D was fine...until VY. Forget the NCG's, and 05 USC is much more dominant. Oklahoma was a joke...

 

[NAHSTE]

I'd reason that it is because USC '05 only lost to Vince Young, and Florida lost to Ole Miss.

They blew everyone else out of the water.

If not for Vince Young, who is arguably the greatest college football player of all time, USC would have won 3 straight national championships with 2 heisman trophy winners in one backfield and one of the best offenses that has ever played.

The defense was obviously weak, but again, the only team that beat USC that year was Texas and it was solely because of Vince Young.

Florida lost to Ole Miss. That alone is enough reason to drop them below USC '05.

:jonesy:

 

[Tailback U]

:jonesy:

I was waiting for you to notice that.

Don't get mad at me, get mad at the AP.

 

[KNUBB]

I was waiting for you to notice that.

Don't get mad at me, get mad at the AP.

That is why the AP no longer matters when it comes to deciding a National Champion. They just make a list to feel good about themselves

 

[NAHSTE]

I was waiting for you to notice that.

Don't get mad at me, get mad at the AP.

Why would I be mad at an independent organization who has no say in who wins the BCS championship? I'm more concerned with delusional SC fans who think a Rose Bowl title and a 3rd party poll make them a national champion.

 

[KNUBB]

Why would I be mad at an independent organization who has no say in who wins the BCS championship? I'm more concerned with delusional SC fans who think a Rose Bowl title and a 3rd party poll make them a national champion.

Hey Let's make a poll and make LSU champs every year. It shouldn't take long to equal the "13" championships Bama claims to have :shifty:

 

[Tailback U]

Why would I be mad at an independent organization who has no say in who wins the BCS championship? I'm more concerned with delusional SC fans who think a Rose Bowl title and a 3rd party poll make them a national champion.

Well have fun being concerned for the rest of your life then.

USC would have crushed that Oklahoma team that LSU beat and I have little doubt in my mind that USC would have beaten LSU that year as well. Obviously we'll never know, but the AP recognized USC as the national champions so I have enough to do the same.

lol @ you acting like the BCS is more credible than the AP. BCS is just as much, if not more, of a sham. LSU didn't play or beat the best team in the country that year, period. I am upset that USC didn't get to play LSU, but the AP did what they could to make sure everyone knew that the BSC got the NC game wrong - which they did.

This is a dumb conversation, though. I know you're going to come back with the "BCS recognized LSU as the national champions" argument that we've all heard and been through 1,000 times so save your and my time and just back out of this thread so we don't have to get into this useless discussion.

 

[KNUBB]

Well have fun being concerned for the rest of your life then.

USC would have crushed that Oklahoma team that LSU beat and I have little doubt in my mind that USC would have beaten LSU that year as well. Obviously we'll never know, but the AP recognized USC as the national champions so I have enough to do the same.

lol @ you acting like the BCS is more credible than the AP. BCS is just as much, if not more, of a sham. LSU didn't play or beat the best team in the country that year, period. I am upset that USC didn't get to play LSU, but the AP did what they could to make sure everyone knew that the BSC got the NC game wrong - which they did.

This is a dumb conversation, though. I know you're going to come back with the "BCS recognized LSU as the national champions" argument that we've all heard and been through 1,000 times so save your and my time and just back out of this thread so we don't have to get into this useless discussion.

If the AP was "correct" then it would have some affiliation with the group that the NCAA recognizes as their National Champion. Since they don't then they literally have no credibility when it comes to naming a National Champion

 

[Tailback U]

If the AP was "correct" then it would have some affiliation with the group that the NCAA recognizes as their National Champion. Since they don't then they literally have no credibility when it comes to naming a National Champion

I don't care who the NCAA recognizes, I care about who the AP recognizes. :runaway:

 

[Sportsbuck]

If the AP was "correct" then it would have some affiliation with the group that the NCAA recognizes as their National Champion. Since they don't then they literally have no credibility when it comes to naming a National Champion

The NCAA doesn't recognize a national champion in FBS football. I support LSU as being the national champ in 2003, but at the time the AP poll was a component of the BCS rankings.

 

[Tailback U]

I think the entire BCS rankings are bullshit. I think anything based on computer rankings is bullshit.

Honestly, I've grown so tired of the BCS that I don't watch nearly as much college football as I used to.

 

[NAHSTE]

Well have fun being concerned for the rest of your life then.

USC would have crushed that Oklahoma team that LSU beat and I have little doubt in my mind that USC would have beaten LSU that year as well. Obviously we'll never know, but the AP recognized USC as the national champions so I have enough to do the same.

lol @ you acting like the BCS is more credible than the AP. BCS is just as much, if not more, of a sham. LSU didn't play or beat the best team in the country that year, period. I am upset that USC didn't get to play LSU, but the AP did what they could to make sure everyone knew that the BSC got the NC game wrong - which they did.

This is a dumb conversation, though. I know you're going to come back with the "BCS recognized LSU as the national champions" argument that we've all heard and been through 1,000 times so save your and my time and just back out of this thread so we don't have to get into this useless discussion.

Ok, then don't claim the 04 BCS Title for USC then, simple as that, because I can say everything about 04 Auburn that you said about 03 USC. I'm upset they didn't get to play either, but you can't agree with the system one year and not agree with it when it doesn't benefit you.

 

[KNUBB]

I don't care who the NCAA recognizes, I care about who the AP recognizes. :runaway:

AND here is an example of the word delusional

 

[Sportsbuck]

Call was for Pass Interference and not defensive holding. even at that it was not in any way effective to the play. Plus it was more a bump and there was a 5 yard cushion for contact at that time in NCAA football.

He held Gamble's left shoulder (you can see Gamble's jersey being tugged around his left shoulder) when Gamble drove for Sharpe's outside shoulder on his route, and thats what Porter saw to make the call. He originally made it for holding and then changed it to pass interference, for reasons unclear, but regardless it would be a first down for the Buckeyes.

Not a Miami fan. Not complaining so much as just flat out saying they got this wrong. Also if you notice in the aforementioned facemasking, it occured after the ball was passed the receiver and also, facemasking was also the wrong call. It would have been illegal hands to the face, had the player been in the play but the ball was passed the receiver and in an uncatchable position when said "facemasking"(that was actually illegal hands to the face if occured in the play and not after the ball had passed) was called.

It doesn't matter if the ball has passed the reciever, its a facemask regardless because the play is live and the ball is still in play. It's either 5 yards for incidental facemask or 15 for a personal foul because at the time that discretion was still up the official, but regardless its an Ohio State first down. By your logic, if the ball flew over the head of Andre Johnson when he was running over the middle, Mike Doss could've pulled Johnson down by his facemask with no penalty.

What sources do you get your information? I have absolutely never heard this called a good play unless it was from a buckeye fan.......oh wait looking at your sig, explains the entirety of the post.

Call was validated by the National Association for Sports Officials, and referee magazine ranked it as "One of the 18 best calls of all-time". The NCAA, Big 12 agree, as do numerous publications around the country that confirmed it as the right call. Dennis Dodd raged on about how bad of a call it was a week after the Fiesta Bowl.. 6 months later he changed his opinion and thought it was the right call.

In this thread alone, Hova (Georgia fan), Nahste (LSU fan), Firsttimer (Notre Dame fan), agree with me. I'd say that shoots a hole right through the logic of why I feel this way.

 

[NAHSTE]

Gotta love a thread where two age old arguments are brought back to life. But for the revisionists out there, here are the official rulings, according to the BCS (aka, who decides the champion)


Ohio State is your 2002 BCS Champion
LSU is your 2003 BCS Champion

Any attempt at arguing otherwise is pointless.

 

[Tailback U]

Ok, then don't claim the 04 BCS Title for USC then, simple as that, because I can say everything about 04 Auburn that you said about 03 USC. I'm upset they didn't get to play either, but you can't agree with the system one year and not agree with it when it doesn't benefit you.

Auburn could claim AP national champs of 04 all they want had they been credited so. But, they weren't. So they can't claim that.

If they were named National Champs by the AP, though, I'd have no problem with it at all because unlike you LSU fans, I'm not bitter about my team being overshadowed by another, and I hate the BCS and anything that causes controversy in college football and criticism towards the BCS is great in my mind.

Plus, we all know USC would have killed Auburn that year anyway. That's why nobody really brings it up or even tries to argue that Auburn should have been named AP national champs. Even despite the eastcoast/SEC bias, USC was still named National Champs by the AP in 03 because they were that good and everybody knows it.

Don't hate the player hate the game yo.

 

[FirstTimer]

I will say this much though. The play was a case where the refs chose to interject themselves into the final outcome of the game, and there was a time when in the final minutes a minor thing such as this would have went completely uncalled for the fact that penalties should not decide the end result and there was not enough in my opinion to warrant any penalty.

LOL at this line of thinking. If it was the other way around you'd be screaming that the refs should have interjected themselves into the game. The refs aren't out there to run around for 59 minutes and then in the last minute let anything and everything go. They are out there to call the game within the rules and make sure the players participate within the boundaries of the rules. The play was a clear violation of 3 rules. If the refs hadn't made the call they would not have been doing their jobs. I'm sorry but on a play that could crown the National Champion I want everything to be on the up and up. I don't want the refs to swallow their whistle just because they might "interject" themselves into the game. If OSU had scored and there was a blatant Offensive PI I know you'd be screaming for the refs to "interject" themselves into the game. So seriously STFU.

I love how this debate has turned from people thinking there was no penalty(when there clearly was) and now it's turned into whether the refs should have even made the call at all...which they should have..because it's their job.

Sorry but all in all, there was a little contact

Bull shit.

that shouldn't have warranted a game changing penalty as the receiver still had the ball pass right through his hands as the contact in no way interfered with his pass catching ability(evidenced by where he was positioned on the field, balll passing through his hands that he just happened to have out in the position one would to make a catch, ball goes through.)

I'm going to go out a limb and say it would have been WAY easier to catch the football if that defender hadn't been there or had not touched him at all....Just a hunch.

Point is that refs used a penalty that could arguably be called on every play, like holding, to affect the outcome from a Miami repeat of the NC.

Show me what happened on that play happening on "every play" in a football game and I will give you a million dollars.

Also you mention how the call has been said to have stated as a good call so I must ask this one question: Where in any sport EVER besides Hoculi(SP?) in the NFL and this past NCAAF season with the SEC refs has any organization ever stood up and said "Hey our refs got it wrong and now you have an bastard national champion." it just doesnt' happen, too much negative publicity.

So your argument is "Aside from three other instances, give me more of them where officials are pointed out on their bad calls". Nice. Also, check out the thread about the NFL admitting to missed calls in a game that happened last fucking weekend!

edit: also in researching the Big Ten Supervisor had the following words come out of his mouth: "I don’t think there was pass interference or, certainly, (there was) very thin pass interference. Unfortunately, that’s what they announced." He went on to calling it a mistake. Honestly I'd listen to what the Big Ten Supervisor at the time says rather than to bow down to what you and 3 other members agree to.

LOL. One dissenting opinion doesn't make him anymore relevant than the entire other mountain of people calling it a good call by the official. Did you ever consider that the ONE dissenting voice you found could be wrong? Seeing as he is the obvious exception to the rule concerning the opinion of the call?

 

[Sportsbuck]

So basically because 3 other people that I do not know in any way possible agrees with you I should drop my case? I think they got this play wrong. The facemask wasn't a continuous hold, but whatever, not arguing with a brick wall.

No, but to say the only reason that I believe it was a good call is because I'm a Buckeye fan is pretty dumb considering fans of other teams in this thread have agreed with the call as have others around the country.

How is it not a continuous hold of the facemask? Sharpe is pulling Gamble's helmet down by the facemask.

I will say this much though. The play was a case where the refs chose to interject themselves into the final outcome of the game, and there was a time when in the final minutes a minor thing such as this would have went completely uncalled for the fact that penalties should not decide the end result and there was not enough in my opinion to warrant any penalty.

And if they don't throw the flag then you have controversy of Miami winning a NC because of am uncalled pass interference.

And even at that I must also challenge the lateness of the flag as it would have seemed to have been done intentionally. Let Miami start celebrating, then take and crush all momentum whatsoever to a point beyond regaining.

LOL. I'm sure they threw it the flag late purely to crush any momentum that came from Miami's premature celebration.

Sorry but all in all, there was a little contact that shouldn't have warranted a game changing penalty as the receiver still had the ball pass right through his hands as the contact in no way interfered with his pass catching ability(evidenced by where he was positioned on the field, balll passing through his hands that he just happened to have out in the position one would to make a catch, ball goes through.) Point is that refs used a penalty that could arguably be called on every play, like holding, to affect the outcome from a Miami repeat of the NC.

Okay, so lets say hypothetically there wasn't a pass interference on the play. You've still got holding (a new set of downs for the Buckeyes from the 2 and a half yardline because it'd be half the distance to the goal), and facemask (either 5 yards for incidental or 15 for a personal foul, both a 1st down and half the distance to the goal).

Also you mention how the call has been said to have stated as a good call so I must ask this one question: Where in any sport EVER besides Hoculi(SP?) in the NFL and this past NCAAF season with the SEC refs has any organization ever stood up and said "Hey our refs got it wrong and now you have an bastard national champion." it just doesnt' happen, too much negative publicity.

Off the top of my head, the Big Ten ruled that a fumble in the Illinois upset of Ohio State should've been reviewed, this coming while the referees were under investigation for calls made a week before.

In 2006 the Pac-10 suspended officials for making a wrong call on an onside kick in a Oklahoma-Oregon game. These aren't the only instances, either, these are just off the top of my head.

edit: also in researching the Big Ten Supervisor had the following words come out of his mouth: "I don’t think there was pass interference or, certainly, (there was) very thin pass interference. Unfortunately, that’s what they announced." He went on to calling it a mistake. Honestly I'd listen to what the Big Ten Supervisor at the time says rather than to bow down to what you and 3 other members agree to.

And from the same article and same guy: "I really think what they had was defensive holding right at the line."

 

[Sportsbuck]

I must ask this question as I missed it the other day when I was looking through the topic. This is one of those things like the Ohio State fans don't like but albeit this was clear and not a rules violation so I must ask the question: How could Texas route Alabama when they would have to have 5 guys hanging on to an alabama runner and take the 5 guys 10 yards to drag any of the Bama runners down? Texas could not tackle at all that night. I don't see how you missed it, maybe it was the 3rd quarter where Bama pretty much downed the ball 3 times on 3 straight possessions to force whatever the little shit's name was(gilbert or something) to beat them. Regardless Bama's defense came up with stops several times and yet Texas looked like a Pee Wee football team out there hanging off Ingram, Richardson, and company. They could not have routed Bama when they couldn't tackle in the first place.

Would you care to explain how the 2009 Alabama offensive line somehow went the last 9 and a half games of the season without being called for a single holding penalty? See, I can play this game too.

And don't even think about saying I only made this post because I'm a Buckeye fan considering I've been accepted to Alabama and may end up going to college there.