4th and 2 from your own 28, you're up by 6 and there's less than 2 minutes to go...

[Esjay]

It's amazing how you are so thick to think that a Patriots fan (or any true fan of a team) would turn their opinons on a coach who has done so much for their team.


(cue belicheat jokes)

It takes 60 minutes to play a football game. Lets completely ignore the lengthy drives resulting in FG attempts and the Maroney fumble on the goalline, those had NOTHING to do with the end result yes? Lets chastise the coach for showing respect to one of the greatest players of the game and taking a risk by rolling the dice on another of the games great players of the decade. There was logical reasoning behind the move and it was extremely high risk but it didn't "cost" us the game, the 60 minutes of played football determined the winner, like it always does.

You're an idiot.

Who said anything about Pats fans turning on Belichick? Obviously no one with a brain is going to do that.

Still doesn't mean you couldn't say it was a bad call and give him a little shit for it. Not trying to argue with you just pointing that out.

 

[Bear Pand]

It's amazing how you are so thick to think that a Patriots fan (or any true fan of a team) would turn their opinons on a coach who has done so much for their team.

True, but not really the point. I don't expect Pats fans to start demanding for him to be fired or anything, just to admit the decision sucked. Instead we have to listen to people explain why it wasn't a bad move. It reminded me of other times when the Pats do something questionable and you get similar bizarre explanations of why it was a good idea. Larry Coyer (or Dungy) pulls that move and I'd be mad at him regardless of the outcome.

 

[Len B]

YouTube- belichick

Amazing how the hate makes people irrational. Belichick didn't knock the guy over, and had nothing to do with that yet he gets blamed for it. Blame the other guy if anything.

Terrible call by Belichick. He's scared of Peyton Manning. If this were JaMarcus Russell (or any other QB for that matter), he would have punted.

The ref's spot was correct. Think of it this way. Do you give credit to a catch that is bobbled out of bounds and then caught? Then why should "forward progress" count when he DIDN'T have possession and was bobbling?

Your logic on part #1 is awful.

Deion Sanders said twas a first and that's enough for me :shifty:

Who said anything about Pats fans turning on Belichick? Obviously no one with a brain is going to do that.

Still doesn't mean you couldn't say it was a bad call and give him a little shit for it. Not trying to argue with you just pointing that out.

All the polls I'm seeing on ESPN have it as "not that bad a call" at 35-42%, with a lot of non-New England states being up there in the 30-35% range.

The decision isn't as cut and paste as a lot of you are making it out to be. You don't agree with the call, that's fine, but there is a wide % of people out there who loved the call.

 

[killgod]

True, but not really the point. I don't expect Pats fans to start demanding for him to be fired or anything, just to admit the decision sucked. Instead we have to listen to people explain why it wasn't a bad move. It reminded me of other times when the Pats do something questionable and you get similar bizarre explanations of why it was a good idea. Larry Coyer (or Dungy) pulls that move and I'd be mad at him regardless of the outcome.

You can debate with 3/4 Around the Horn guys that sided with BB, or Hoge and Dilfer who also sided with him at the end of primetime...

There's plenty of professional opinion out there that believe the decision was legitimate.

It was a high risk move, but stepping back and looking at who is on the offence for both teams, considering the two 4th quarter scoring drives Manning already engineered....I can't see how it was as bizarrely insane as some of you suggest.

Brady torched them for 400+ yards and you don't believe he can get you two more? C'mon.


I'd love to see a legit breakdown of that play tho, but we won't get it. That spot was absolutely terrible and the whole suggestion that he was bobbling through to the ground is absurd.

 

[Len B]

How many possessions did the Colts have and how many TD did they score?

Clearly NE did stop and could stop the Colts. Your own 28 is not 4 down territory under last night's circumstances. Beli is still a great [SOB] coach and I respect his balls i must say.

There's quite a difference between drives in the 2nd/3rd quarter with lots of time left and the 4th quarter/game ending drive.

First of all, you have four downs to get a first in this situation, not three. That automatically makes both situations incomparable.

Secondly, there would not have been much of a pass rush on that final drive. On drives where the Colts got stopped, it was because of solid pressure forcing Manning to get rid of the throws quickly. The Patriots also could afford to cheat safeties up earlier in the game, where as in the final drive they'd have to prevent the long ball.

 

[TDAUG]

True, but not really the point. I don't expect Pats fans to start demanding for him to be fired or anything, just to admit the decision sucked. Instead we have to listen to people explain why it wasn't a bad move. It reminded me of other times when the Pats do something questionable and you get similar bizarre explanations of why it was a good idea. Larry Coyer (or Dungy) pulls that move and I'd be mad at him regardless of the outcome.

Personally I had no problem with the decision, only because I see the thought process behind it. That being said, I would not have the stones to do that.

To your point though, if roles were reverse, the Pats fans would be saying..."See Brady is the best, they are afraid of him."

I like Belichick as a head Coach...Yes, he is arrogant, but is that a bad thing? He always thinks he is making the best decision at the time.

 

[Len B]

You can debate with 3/4 Around the Horn guys that sided with BB, or Hoge and Dilfer who also sided with him at the end of primetime...

There's plenty of professional opinion out there that believe the decision was legitimate.

It was a high risk move, but stepping back and looking at who is on the offence for both teams, considering the two 4th quarter scoring drives Manning already engineered....I can't see how it was as bizarrely insane as some of you suggest.

Brady torched them for 400+ yards and you don't believe he can get you two more? C'mon.


I'd love to see a legit breakdown of that play tho, but we won't get it. That spot was absolutely terrible and the whole suggestion that he was bobbling through to the ground is absurd.

I do love how people are saying you have to put trust in a pile of shit defense that is tired (are we forgetting they spent a majority of the 4th quarter on the field?) vs. the games best or second best QB based on whom you ask and a sure fire Hall of Famer.

If I have the game in my hands, I want to keep it in my hands and let my HOF QB win us the game on plays that have been automatic all night. I don't want to put the ball into Manning's hands against a secondary that had been getting outplayed all night.

 

[Len B]

Personally I had no problem with the decision, only because I see the thought process behind it. That being said, I would not have the stones to do that.

Really good point. 99% of coaches "play by the book" and have to worry about being fired if they fuck up. BB isn't worried about that.

 

[MrBill]

There is an interesting article on ESPN.com showing that Belicheat actually played the smarter percentage play by going for it (78% probability of win) vs. punting to Manning (70% probability of win). It's very doubtful he knew those numbers when he decided to go for it but the statistics were in his favor.

This isn't the first time he made a 4th down call that backfired on him. He did the same thing in the Superbowl against the Giants a few years ago. He went for a 4th and 7 that would have been the difference in the game rather than kick a long FG and risk giving the other Manning great field position.

 

[Len B]

This isn't the first time he made a 4th down call that backfired on him. He did the same thing in the Superbowl against the Giants a few years ago. He went for a 4th and 7 that would have been the difference in the game rather than kick a long FG and risk giving the other Manning great field position.

He also did it vs. the Falcons this year and it won us the game, as it was 4th and inches on our own 30 in the third quarter. That went unnoticed though cause it wasn't THE GREATEST RIVALRY OF THE DECADE

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

I do love how people are saying you have to put trust in a pile of shit defense that is tired (are we forgetting they spent a majority of the 4th quarter on the field?) vs. the games best or second best QB based on whom you ask and a sure fire Hall of Famer.

If I have the game in my hands, I want to keep it in my hands and let my HOF QB win us the game on plays that have been automatic all night. I don't want to put the ball into Manning's hands against a secondary that had been getting outplayed all night.

Didnt I see you type 'wtf' like 10 times when you saw they were going for it? Why defend it now?

 

[Deviant]

Your logic on part #1 is awful.

Deion Sanders said twas a first and that's enough for me :shifty:

I have no other explanation as to why he would do that. A defense genius with no confidence in his defense? Was he just bored and was like: "Ok, let me go on 4th and 2 at my own 28 for shit and giggles."

 

[Len B]

wtf = shocked

It wasn't until after the play was over and they didn't get it that I said "I don't mind the call"

 

[Len B]

I have no other explanation as to why he would do that. A defense genius with no confidence in his defense? Was he just bored and was like: "Ok, let me go on 4th and 2 at my own 28 for shit and giggles."

I just meant that there's no reason to be worried about JaMarcus Russell going 70 yards on you when he's the worst QB in the league. Manning is the best, kind of different scenarios.

 

[Bear Pand]

lol at Ted Bruschi and Rodney Harrison both being mad about the call.

 

[Bear Pand]

To your point though, if roles were reverse, the Pats fans would be saying..."See Brady is the best, they are afraid of him."

I agree. For the call to be correct you either have to look at it individually while ignoring rest of the game situation, or you have to admit that Belichick was afraid of Manning. Scared play leads to a loss.

There is an interesting article on ESPN.com showing that Belicheat actually played the smarter percentage play by going for it (78% probability of win) vs. punting to Manning (70% probability of win). It's very doubtful he knew those numbers when he decided to go for it but the statistics were in his favor.

Those percentages are bullshit. I know I mentioned some earlier in the thread but you can't really predict what % of the time you win if you go compared to if you punt.

 

[celtsxpatsxsox]

He also did it vs. the Falcons this year and it won us the game, as it was 4th and inches on our own 30 in the third quarter. That went unnoticed though cause it wasn't THE GREATEST RIVALRY OF THE DECADE

There is a big difference between going for it on inches in the middle of the game where a QB sneak is pretty much a gimme to get the first than going for it on with 2-3 yards to go at the end of the game. If it was inches I would be all for it because of how successful the quick QB sneak is.

 

[Len B]

There is a big difference between going for it on inches in the middle of the game where a QB sneak is pretty much a gimme to get the first than going for it on with 2-3 yards to go at the end of the game. If it was inches I would be all for it because of how successful the quick QB sneak is.

It was a full back dive you alleged Pats fan :shifty:

And I'm not saying they were both the right calls -- all I said was he's done it before.

 

[padman59]

Would you bet against that?

Would I bet against Manning driving 70 yards for the game winning TD in two minutes? Yes given the other option which spots him over half that distance.

 

[Tailback U]

He also did it vs. the Falcons this year and it won us the game, as it was 4th and inches on our own 30 in the third quarter. That went unnoticed though cause it wasn't THE GREATEST RIVALRY OF THE DECADE

What was the score at the time?

4th and inches and 4th and 2 are just not comparable.

Not only that, but the Colts needed to get into the endzone to win the game. Pats D was playing fine, they had a chance to stop Manning if BB just gave them one.

BB is a great coach but that was a terrible decision, no matter how you slice it. Showed no confidence in his defense whatsoever. That can really hurt a team's demeanor and attitude.

As a head coach you can't risk losing the game unless you have to. Punt the ball and make the Colts earn 7. You aren't automatically giving them a win by punting but you are if you fail the conversion. Great teams do not need to take unnecessary risks like that when they are winning.

And whatever happened to "defense wins championships"?

Give your defense a shot at least. What are you paying those guys for? I really think that Belichick has let Brady, Moss, and Welker get to his head and he has forgotten the importance of running the football and playing defense.

It's pretty much the same thing that happens to me when I play Madden. If I use the Raiders then I make it a point to run the ball, control the clock, and put together drives while playing solid defense just to keep the game close. Then when I use the Patriots I throw 10 screens to Welker and 10 bombs to Moss and run shotgun 99% of the time and usually end up losing because I think I'm better than I actually am.