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  • We have just launched a new VSN Amazon Store. This new store will allow you to order games (including PC downloads) and anything else you want from Amazon and help VSN out at the same time! You get the exact same deals and pre-order bonuses through our store front as you do from Amazon so please bookmark this link and use it when you are shopping at Amazon.com - [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/"][COLOR="#0000FF"][U]VSN Amazon Store[/U][/COLOR][/URL] Here are some direct links to pre-order the major upcoming titles- [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]PlayStation 4[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGA9WK2"]PlayStation 4 500GB Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HVBPRUO"]PlayStation 4 Gold Wireless Headset[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGA9X9W"]PlayStation 4 DualShock 4 Wireless Controller[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGAA3S2"]PlayStation 4 Camera[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DCBDNW6"]Final Fantasy XIV: A REALM REBORN[/URL] - April 14th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00J128FPA"]Final Fantasy XIV: A REALM REBORN Collectors Edition[/URL] - April 14th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IMVRVC4"]Trials Fusion[/URL] - April 15th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GG4BBUM"]MLB 14: The Show[/URL] - May 6th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DHF39KS"]Wolfenstein: The New Order[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BI83EVU"]Watch Dogs[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DYAQHTQ"]Watch Dogs Limited Edition[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00I0574EW"]Murdered Soul Suspect[/URL] - June 3rd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DHF39HQ"]The Elder Scrolls Online[/URL] - June 30th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGA9ZZ4"]Drive Club[/URL] - September 30th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GZ1GUSY"]Tomb Raider Definitive Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00H5V9S6E"]Rayman Legends - Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00C27SCC2"]Thief[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HD4R5YU"]Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGAA0SU"]inFAMOUS Second Son Limited Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FYIXMHQ"]inFAMOUS Second Son Collectors Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00D2ZK1IG"]Dying Light[/URL] [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]PlayStation 3[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00B0JALUE"]PlayStation 3 500GB Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00AEX81SG"]PlayStation 3 250GB Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GY4OAIE"]LEGO The Hobbit[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00I9UVY30"]FIFA 2014 World Cup Brazil[/URL] - April 15th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ICWO2ZW"]Darksiders Collection[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ICWO2P2"]Red Faction Collection[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HQY8LRM"]Rambo The Video Game[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FRESXSA"]The Amazing Spider-Man 2[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CPKUV98"]Wolfenstein: The New Order[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00J6DLPLK"]Drakengard 3[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGHUS58"]Watch Dogs[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DYAQHZ0"]Watch Dogs Collectors Edition[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BG6ZHK0"]Murdered: Soul Suspect[/URL] - June 3rd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IGHP28Y"]Transformers Rise of The Dark Spark[/URL] - June 24th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DNGQTFI"]Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Z[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00H4BBTCQ"]Tomb Raider - GOTY Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HNYWFMC"]Far Cry Compilation [/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00946FSIA"]Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HQY8LRM"]Rambo The Video Game[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FQFFPZO"]NASCAR '14[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DFT92MU"]Thief[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B0088MVP3S"]Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ECOBFCC"]The LEGO Movie Videogame[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B006IOAHPK"]South Park: The Stick of Truth[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FDQQD52"]South Park: The Stick of Truth Grand Wizard Edition [/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00F6YD2AK"]Dark Souls II Black Armor Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00F6YD2FK"]Dark Souls II Collectors Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GJSUUC0"]Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00E44EZYA"]Ultra Street Fighter IV[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00D2ZK2O4"]Dying Light[/URL] [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]Xbox One[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CMQTVUA"]Xbox One Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00MCLFZ1Y"]Xbox One Console Madden 15 Bundle[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IIHU44E"]Xbox One Console Titanfall Bundle[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HVPFGD8"]Titanfall Limited Edition Controller[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CMQTUSS"]Xbox One Wireless Controller[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IAVDQCK"]Xbox One Stereo Headset[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IAVDOS6"]Xbox One Stereo Headset Adapter[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GY4OB8S"]LEGO The Hobbit[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CMQTUCE"]KINECT Sports: Rivals[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IMVRVA6"]Trials Fusion[/URL] - April 15h [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FRESTZW"]The Amazing Spider-Man 2[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DHF39L2"]Wolfenstein: The New Order[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CX8VY4S"]Watch Dogs[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DYAQI0E"]Watch Dogs Limited Edition[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00I0574CO"]Murdered Soul Suspect[/URL] - June 3rd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IGH2HKU"]Transformers Rise of The Dark Spark[/URL] - June 24th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DHF39EO"]The Elder Scrolls Online[/URL] - June 30th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GZ1GUNO"]Tomb Raider Definitive Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DBCAS7E"]Zoo Tycoon[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00H5V9SLE"]Rayman Legends - Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CYNTHA0"]Thief[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DB9JYFY"]Titanfall[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00G2HSX86"]Titanfall Collectors Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HD4R5WC"]Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00D2ZK2MQ"]Dying Light[/URL] [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]Xbox 360[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FATRKOK"]Xbox 360 250GB Holiday Value Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GZ9ESEE"]Xbox 360 250GB Console w/Halo 4, Darksiders II, Tomb Raider and Batman: Arkham City[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B003ZSP0WW"]Xbox 360 Wireless Controller[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DC9SWWE"]Titanfall[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00G2HSWZU"]Titanfall Collectors Edition[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GY4OBB0"]LEGO The Hobbit[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00I9UVY7G"]FIFA 2014 World Cup Brazil[/URL] - April 15th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ICWO2G6"]Darksiders Collection[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FRESY6G"]The Amazing Spider-Man 2[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CPKUV7K"]Wolfenstein: The New Order[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGD6LMG"]Watch Dogs[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DYAQHNC"]Watch Dogs Limited Edition[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BG6ZHL4"]Murdered: Soul Suspect[/URL] - June 3rd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IGHY7LC"]Transformers Rise of The Dark Spark[/URL] - June 24th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DNGQQUQ"]Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Z[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00H4BBVZQ"]Tomb Raider - GOTY Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DBCAT3W"]Fable Anniversary[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00946FSJ4"]Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FQFFQ2Q"]NASCAR '14[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DFT92EI"]Thief[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B0088MVP2Y"]Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ECOBFA4"]The LEGO Movie Videogame[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B006IOAHTQ"]South Park: The Stick of Truth[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FDQQD6Q"]South Park: The Stick of Truth Grand Wizard Edition [/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00F6YD26Y"]Dark Souls II Black Armor Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00F6YD27I"]Dark Souls II Collectors Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GJSUXLS"]Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00E44EZPE"]Ultra Street Fighter IV[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00D2ZK2RQ"]Dying Light[/URL] [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]Wii U[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GY4OAM0"]LEGO The Hobbit[/URL] - April 22nd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FRESQKU"]The Amazing Spider-man 2[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DC7G2W8"]Mario Kart 8[/URL] - May 30th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IGH1LJ8"]Transformers Rise of the Dark Spark[/URL] - June 24th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DC7O77A"]Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ECOAX34"]The LEGO Movie Videogame[/URL]
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[ALL] Ads up, games down: The ugly, profitable details about Xbox Live advertising

Handleit_44

New member
Link: The Penny Arcade Report


Xbox Live is the online platform for the Xbox 360 that allows people to play against each other online, chat across games, and manage their friend list. Xbox Live is also a for-pay service, costing around $5 a month depending on where and how you purchased your subscription. Microsoft has successfully created a service that offers much of what other services like the PlayStation Network and Steam give away for free, but the company didn’t stop there. The other way Xbox Live is being monetized is the sale of advertising.

People who don’t play video games would be forgiven if they turned on an Xbox 360 and didn’t realize it was a device used to primarily play games. The first screen you see on the Xbox 360 Dashboard is often a mixture of ads for all sorts of goods and services, and many times games are in the minority of ad slots. The latest redesign increased the ad space that can be sold to advertisers, and that in turn increased this problem.

Let’s be clear, it is a problem. Game discovery is terrible in the current design of Xbox Live, and the usability of a system that used to be about games is suffering in order for Microsoft to make money on ads. Sadly, this issue isn’t going away: Ad sales simply bring in too much money to ignore, and revenue is growing. How much revenue does Microsoft bring in Xbox Live ad sales? Let’s find out… together.

Microsoft is selling eyeballs, not time

To understand how much money Microsoft makes from Xbox Live advertising, we need to take a step back and understand how advertising works with digital content. Magazines and newspapers sell ads by the page, and you can estimate how many people those physical ads will reach based on circulation numbers. When it comes to Xbox Live and your favorite web sites, advertising is sold in terms of how many people see the ad on the page, and the information can be tracked relatively accurately. These are called impressions.

Advertisers buy clumps of people who will see their advertisement, and the cost for these ads is measured by what’s called the “CPM.” The acronym means cost per thousand, with the M being the Roman Numeral for 1,000. If a site sells advertising space at a $5 CPM, the advertiser pays $5 for every 1,000 people who see the ad. I contacted Microsoft and asked for their ad rates for Xbox Live, but they were unwilling to share that data directly. Thankfully, a source who would like to remain anonymous leaked the ad sales data from October 2011 to June 2012.

Microsoft sells ads on the Xbox 360 Dashboard at a CPM of between $19 to $23, depending on the ad placement and the type of ad. You’ll pay an extra 20% for animated or video ads, and if you’d like to select specific demographics for those ads, you’ll pay an extra 15% per “targeting criteria,” with the maximum bump being 30%.

So if I’m running a video ad that I want to send to two specific and overlapping target markets, I’m paying between $28.50 and $34.50 to Microsoft for every 1,000 people who see my ad. The more money I pay, the more people who see in my ad, and the longer it runs. The amount of money spent on the ad also impacts where it’s placed, with better placement given to more extensive, and therefore expensive, ad campaigns.


xbl-ads-screen1.jpg



I tracked down someone who had purchased ads on Xbox Live to find out more about the process. This source also wanted to remain anonymous, for the obvious reasons. “The bigger your spend, the better placements your ad will appear in,” they said. “And they are pretty expensive; for every view I get on Xbox Live, for the same money I get twice that almost everywhere else.” The minimum spend to put your ad in the kind of rotation that might get someone’s attention, according to the source, is $40,000.

Many companies spend much more when they buy an ad for their product. “$250,000 will get you a good run for about three weeks,” my source stated. “If you do multiple campaigns like one for a trailer, one for a demo, etc., that’s where you start crossing the $500,000 mark.” Keep in mind this money simply puts your ad in rotation, as Microsoft sells multiple campaigns at a time and, if you aim your campaign at your target market, you’ll be increasing the amount you spend on your advertising.

Creating an ad campaign can be confusing, but Microsoft helps the process; you tell them how much you’d like to pay for ads, and they help you design your campaign on Xbox Live and explain what you’re getting for that money. I spoke to another source who spent $50,000 on an advertisement, and he had nothing but praise for Microsoft’s ad team. “They were super easy to work with and were great about getting back to us in a timely manner,” he said. “Some of the best interaction we had with MS was their Advertising division.”

It gets crazier: The data shared with the Penny Arcade Report shows that Microsoft estimates 16 million impressions for an ad during a holiday, so an ad with a $21.50 CPM would cost you a stunning $344,000 to control that spot for the day. You can also buy half-day increments. Microsoft estimates that ads during a normal weekday in the first part of the year enjoyed 9 million impressions, with 15 million impressions over the weekend. Based on these numbers, Microsoft estimates that it would cost $193,500 to control the entirety of an ad spot for your average Monday with what’s called a “road block” ad. Start layering on the features, however, and that price can begin to rise very quickly.

It would be hard for any company pass up this amount of revenue, and the number of ads being sold is only limited by the amount of ad space Microsoft can fit on your screen; the amount of marketing a design can deliver to the audience may trump both aesthetics and ease of use for gamers. “If you notice the dashboard redesign added in more spots for ads than were on the blades so they have more inventory to sell,” my source explained.

I contacted Microsoft and asked how much advertising revenue impacted the profitability of the Xbox 360. “We don’t share this information publicly but we can tell you that, since 2010, the advertising business has grown 142%,” I was told.

Where did all the games go?

This laser-like focus on advertising means that the space that used to be used to promote and share new games is gone. “Since the last big 360 Dashboard update, the presence of games, specifically unique XBLA has been severely demoted,” a developer who spoke on the condition of anonymity said. “This ain’t really cool, because promoting XBLA games is really difficult. Your audience is people who own an Xbox AND have it connected to the internet AND realize there are unique downloadable games on there (i.e. it isn’t just a Netflix and Madden machine) AND jump through the hurdles of adding MS moonbucks to their account AND can find actually your game on the console.”

Trying to get someone to jump through all those hoops is proving difficult, and it’s directly impacting the money developers can make on the system. “Unless there’s a link to your game on the front page, which is both tremendously expensive and will rarely last even a week, actually finding the games is a nightmare,” the developer explained. “Currently, you have to navigate past Home ... Social ... TV ... Video ... and finally to Games. Under Games, you need to select Games Marketplace. From there, you have to completely ignore everything under ‘Spotlight’ (which quizzically includes Games Showcase, Express Yourself, Most Wanted and New In Fun Labs, plus a giant ad right in the middle, and good luck figuring out what any of those things mean) and select a completely different submenu called simply ‘Games’ and then either select New or A-Z.”

Even describing the process is exasperating. “Can you imagine trying to explain that to someone who wants to buy your game? There isn’t even a simple search bar to just put in the title of something and find it that way!” (A quick note: as Microsoft points out below, you can use the Bing search bar on the Dashboard to do exactly that.)

He pointed out that the Dashboard layout seemed to be designed by committee, with no strong vision of how to make it work well. “Without a single really strong leader with a powerful vision of improving the Xbox content experience, I don’t see this improving much, if at all,” he said. “And as someone who basically relies on being able to sell XBLA games to, you know, pay rent and eat, that’s really disheartening.”

He also said that other services do better in terms of game discovery and promotion, including the PlayStation Network. “Steam is probably the best though, given its very searchable and is focused exclusively on games,” he said. “And at the very least, it’s clear Steam has a clear vision and objectives that put the developers and the audience at the fore. With the Xbox Dashboard, it seems Mazda ads rank above games of all stripes in prominence. Kinda sad, that.”

I asked Microsoft about the inability to find games, and was offered a pat answer. “A core principal for advertising on Xbox LIVE is to invite not interfere with the user experience and we diligently work with brands to ensure they deliver engaging experiences that are relevant and add value to the Xbox LIVE community,” a representative told me. “More broadly, we are also working very hard to make it easy for subscribers to find the entertainment they are looking for. One example of this is Bing Voice Search on Xbox, which is getting even easier to use. Now you can search for your favorite entertainment using simple voice commands.”

Microsoft is certainly enjoying an online service that brings in revenue in two ways, but imagine if the company were to actually promote unique games like Spelunky. It would be wonderful if you were exposed to a new game or experience every time you turned your gaming console on, versus being met with advertisements. Xbox Live, and the Xbox 360 Dashboard, aren’t services Microsoft is providing to help you find and enjoy new content, they’re a delivery mechanism that allows the company to sell its audience to advertisers in groups of 1,000.
 
the article sounds about right. but the game devs seems like they are crying because their game ads are no longer the priority....as to suggest that they should get their stuff promoted without paying. MS isnt obligated to provide game developers with free or reduced cost advertising on XBL. I am certain that MS makes alot more money by doing things the way they currently are. How can anyone fault them for trying to squeeze as much revenue as possible out of their product?

my thought it why doesnt steam of PSN advertise? especially since they are free services they could use ads to gain revenue to offset the cost of the free service. But their model seems to be built more for longevity. Maybe the thinking is to not use ads and build up a stronger long term base and use the service to market games that can yield more revenue in the long run....vs MS model of get the most bang for your buck now and worry about the long term later. Only time will tell is MS way of doing business will come back and bite them in the ass in the next gen....they certainly seem to know what they are doing

lucky for us we have choices when it comes to console/PC services.
 
The ads are absolutely out of control on Live. And it's only getting worse. I don't care what any Xbox defender says it's fucking ridiculous whether we're paying $10 or $60 a year for a service, but getting inundated with so many ads. And you don't see ANY of this shit on PSN. How does that even make sense?!? Fuck, now they are steering you towards downloading an app to see their pathetic game deals. Why, because then they can have more space on the actual dashboard for MORE ADS! Yes!

Wombat from CAG works in marketing and has been discussing this issue for well over a year. He was trying to explain all the "CPM" this and thats but I had no idea what he was really talking about. Now I know.

It's one thing if they want to force this shit down your throat of you're a silver member not paying anything but come the fuck on.

I was talking to my cousin yesterday, who is just as big a gamer as I am. Two years ago he was like JMS or Seth, pretty much buying any non-exclusive on 360. Over the past few years he has become more and more frustrated with how shitty Live is. And he's an IT guy so when he fires up his console and sees nothing but ads smacking him in the face he's had enough. He told me that he isn't going to renew Live when his subscription come up and I think I'm going to be right there with him.

M$ and their ads and bullshit Kinect everything can suck my dick. Each day they seem to be moving closer and closer to the Apple business model, which I despise. The only thing that seems different is that MS isn't just suing everyone left and right for made up patents.
 
it is a little ridiculous to pay for gold and still get that crazy amount of ads. silver i can see, but not gold. personally they never bothered me either way
 
it is a little ridiculous to pay for gold and still get that crazy amount of ads. silver i can see, but not gold. personally they never bothered me either way

They don't bother me either, but I have a feeling they will eventually create a second paying option, where you can pay more and have no ads, and possibly the ability to run a previous dashboard.
 
They don't bother me either, but I have a feeling they will eventually create a second paying option, where you can pay more and have no ads, and possibly the ability to run a previous dashboard.

I see that happening as well. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the next gen Xbox has a $100 Live subscription fee.

It's not that they are so bothersome I can't play my console obviously. But they are so obtrusive when looking for shit. When I get no ads, a free online service and way better deals with PS+, it's gotten to the point where I always turn my PS3 on first. Two to even one year ago I always turned on my 360 first. Now it's the other way around. The other strange thing I've noticed is that I seem to have a lot more friends online on PS3 at any given time. It was never like that a few years ago on Xbox. Granted, you could say it's because the lists are different but they really aren;t. I would say 80% of both lists are the same people that own both consoles. The other 20% are people that only own one or the other, and both lists are at capacity (100 friends).

I know that isn't any scientific test but it is something that I've taken notice of as of late.

I have so many friends that either got rid of Live or just sold their 360's outright and stuck with PS3. One of them rebought a 360 so his wife and kid could play Kinect. I had to basically give him a hand job to convince him to get NCAA on 360 because he hates the 360 and Live so much.
 
I don't really care about the ads. I don't look at them anyways. I just think the current dashboard is kinda ugly. I don't have any problems finding stuff, but I just really liked the previous dashboard.
 
Each day they seem to be moving closer and closer to the Apple business model, which I despise. The only thing that seems different is that MS isn't just suing everyone left and right for made up patents.
Please elaborate on this.


I actually dont have a problem with the ads per se. My problem comes that they arent just something thats there and if Im interested I click. They are essentially popup ads because they are adding a layer to my ability to discover content. When you do that and actually raise prices for service it just annoys me. Its not XBLs job to advertise for developers , but it is there responsibility to not put up so many walls between user and game. You make a big fuss over this for years then bury it under ad space and expect devs to be ok with that ?
My actual concern is given this direction just how bad and unintuitive will the next XBOX ui be ? Will Win8 "tiles" feature random ads on my desktop ?

Just my two cents but since the new dashupdate Ive only downloaded one demo I simply have no clue where to go to find them and no idea when theyre released.
 
I don't really care about the ads. I don't look at them anyways. I just think the current dashboard is kinda ugly. I don't have any problems finding stuff, but I just really liked the previous dashboard.

Yes, it's ugly as fuck. But most of that is because it's designed for ad apace, not games, which is what this whole article is about. That and it's supposed to be smoother with Kinect integration, even though the Kinect is a piece of shit that only works like 50% of the time, under perfect conditions.

I hate to sound like an old guy telling kids to get off his lawn, but damn do I miss the blades.
 
The bottom line is that a lot of people are apathetic about ads starting to dominate Live, and that's why Microsoft continues to shift their model in that direction.
 
Please elaborate on this.


I actually dont have a problem with the ads per se. My problem comes that they arent just something thats there and if Im interested I click. They are essentially popup ads because they are adding a layer to my ability to discover content. When you do that and actually raise prices for service it just annoys me. Its not XBLs job to advertise for developers , but it is there responsibility to not put up so many walls between user and game. You make a big fuss over this for years then bury it under ad space and expect devs to be ok with that ?
My actual concern is given this direction just how bad and unintuitive will the next XBOX ui be ? Will Win8 "tiles" feature random ads on my desktop ?

Just my two cents but since the new dashupdate Ive only downloaded one demo I simply have no clue where to go to find them and no idea when theyre released.
But, but, but, no one else has any problmes. It;s so easy to navigate. You and I must be the only idiots on this entire site taht can't figure it out.

As for the Apple comparison, I'm talking about how they basically roped all of these consumers in with overall solid products, good games and pleasant operating systems. Now that they have us (well, most of us) they feel like they can get us to do whatever they want us to do. Like Apple somehow has all of their mindless sheep convinced that they should only buy their phone, computers and tablet. MS has somehow convinced millions of people that the Kinect is amazing, yet even they don't support it, but GO BUY ONE ANYWAY! That paying for an online service is perfectly fine even if your direct competitor's is free and offers a ton of extra shit for $10 less if you do decide to pay. And then they do whatever they want both the Live service and ads and while you hear slight murmurs you never hear outright roars from their customers because for some reason they are just happy with whatever MS is fore feeding down their throats.
 
The bottom line is that a lot of people are apathetic about ads starting to dominate Live, and that's why Microsoft continues to shift their model in that direction.

Yes! Exactly. I'm one of the outspoken MINORITY and that's why they will continue to do whatever the fuck they want. There are way too many people like Swarley, JMS, Seth, Leaf and countless others from this site alone that just say "Meh, they don't bother me." But they SHOULD bother you!

But the only way it will ever change is if people speak with their wallets and stop paying for Live. But unfortunately that will probably never happen.

Back to the Apple comparison, it's like people are brainwashed just to think "Eh, my Live subscription is due. What's another $50 or $60 bucks. I have to have it, right?" At least it's not as bad as "The new iPhone just released. I NEED IT NOW!" Why? "Because it's an iPhone of course!
 
Its a fad, but with all three companies focused on it, it's not going to go away any time soon.

I'm not so sure. I know the Move sold well below Sony's expectations and the Wii really tanked in sales the past year or so. I don't think the Wii U is going to be as big a boom as Nintendo is expecting and even with that they are really focusing on the new tablet controller. The Kinect started out strong but because of MS's almsot complete lack of support has severaly fallen off as well.
 
Honestly....maybe I am contirbuting to this problem.....I simply don't have time to care about Xbox live and psn. I just play my games and that's it. What does annoy me is the fucking ads in games now....like NCAA.....fuck that.
 
The advertisements only bother me because the dashboard is ridiculously laggy and slow-loading, which I'd assume is from all the pics/vids from ads scattered all over the place. There is no absolutely reason for this, especially when paying $60 a year.
 
The advertisements only bother me because the dashboard is ridiculously laggy and slow-loading, which I'd assume is from all the pics/vids from ads scattered all over the place. There is no absolutely reason for this, especially when paying $60 a year.

This statement bothers me. You're paying to use a service that works very well and is pretty expensive to maintain. Just because your paying to use things doesn't mean your entitled to not be shown ads.
 
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