AI in contract talks with Grizz

[Herm]

Allen Iverson In Contract Talks with Grizzlies

By Andrew Katz

Allen Iverson

Chris Wallace should have gotten a cut from Mitch Kupchak for helping construct the Lakers’ championship team. And if he’s able to get Allen Iverson to Memphis next season, he should also get a chunk from HBO after they create a spin-off of their hit boxing series “24/7″ about the 2009-10 Memphis Grizzlies.

It may even be difficult for Iverson to find a team willing to give him the full mid-level exception for next season, starting at $5.854 million. But Iverson has been linked by various reports to both the Grizzlies and Miami Heat, and the Memphis Commercial Appeal reported Wednesday that Heisley was giving serious consideration to giving Iverson a one-year, $5 million deal.

Heisley didn’t say that the Grizzlies wouldn’t ultimately sign Iverson only that such a decision has yet to be made.

“More or less, we’re going to have discussions initially with his agent,” Heisley said. “But it’s very, very early. I don’t want people to think there’s more to it than that. It’s very, very early and it’s nothing more than exploratory.”

While Heisley contemplates whether he should use the $4 million he made by sending Greg Buckner away as part of the Shawn Marion trade on Iverson, he should also spend some time thinking about how this team will work on the court. Compile the shots attempted per game last season by Iverson, Mayo, Gay, Randolph, and Gasol, and you’re at 71.6 shots. That’s a drop under the 76 shots that the Bobcats took as an entire squad last year. Yikes.

Even if Wallace is assembling a roster less interested in playing defense than any other team in NBA history, this could be a great business decision. Who cares if defense wins championships - offense sells tickets. And internal team strife creates drama, which could sell some more tickets.

This could be a hybrid between “Hard Knocks” and “24/7″:

Episode 1: AI and Z-Bo stroll to camp to find a locker room already unified behind O.J. and Rudy. The two newcomers decide to create their own clique - and they come up with a nickname for themselves. Smash and Dash.

Episode 2: Z-Bo, O.J., AI, and Rudy get over their differences when they all storm off the court after Marc Gasol decides to take a jumpshot.

Episode 3: The Grizzlies find their groove. They rattle off five straight wins, and the media touts Chris Wallace as a visionary for bringing together players who were originally pegged as a “toxic” combination.

Episode 4: Just as Memphis prepares for a playoff run, Wallace pulls the trigger on his latest genius concoction, trading O.J. and Rudy to the Lakers in exchange Adam Morrison, Sasha Vujacic, and next year’s No. 1 pick.

I’d tune in. But even if HBO can’t get the NBA’s permission to make that show, the Iverson-to-Memphis move will still be fun to watch. And thankfully there won’t be enough shots to go around for Hasheem Thabeet.

 

[ralaw]

LOL, a team with AI, Mayo, Gay and Randolph.......4 guys who like to take 15+ shots a night while playing no defense. Other than for marketing purposes I don't understand this move for the Grizzlies. You already have a young nucleus that will need some time, but could be good and you bring in AI and Randolph? I can party understand Randolph, but I don't see how AI is going to make this team better.

 

[FlawLeSs]

dont see how this will work at all..

if anything iverson should go to a contender

 

[Archer]

dont see how this will work at all..

if anything iverson should go to a contender

How would he do that? Sign as the teams gatorade boy?

Cause as of right now , no contenders would touch him

 

[Lanteri]

Makes sense. The Grizzlies are in no place to compete in the Western Conference. They might as well put out an exciting offensive team to keep the fans semi-interested.

 

[Herm]

I agree with the article its going to be interesting to see how ZBo and AI react to coming into a locker room where its clearly Rudy and OJ's team.

 

[Herm]

Im a grizz fan and definitely am not thrilled with this signing. AI and OJ fistfights over shots FTL!

 

[The Messenger]

LOL, a team with AI, Mayo, Gay and Randolph.......4 guys who like to take 15+ shots a night while playing no defense. Other than for marketing purposes I don't understand this move for the Grizzlies. You already have a young nucleus that will need some time, but could be good and you bring in AI and Randolph? I can party understand Randolph, but I don't see how AI is going to make this team better.

Mayo and Gay play defense. Mayo came in as one of the rookies last year who actually prided himself on the defensive end. Mayo drew comparisons during the draft to Kobe because he's a lights out scorer, but he also brings it on defense.

Gay's not a horrible defender, but he's not the great defender a lot of people think he is just because they look at his stats. He's average, but he plays defense and he tries on the defensive end.

Randolph and AI, well of course they don't, but I can't see AI starting. He'd be the 6th man off the bench who is gonna run the second unit. And if he does start, it's just going to be for show. He'll play 3-5 minutes, then get out until Rudy and Mayo need a break.

We were an average defensive team and a horrible rebounding team. We got hustle and defense through the draft with Thabeet, Sam Young, and DaMarre Carroll. We got rebounding with Thabeet and Randolph.

 

[The Messenger]

mark my words. rudy gay is going to be all-but-ignored with z-bo around - he regressed last season as it was. if they add AI, they risk alienating all three of gay, mayo, and conley. are you really saying that marketing rent-a-player AI would sell appreciably more tickets as a than watching o.j. mayo in his second season? that's who you are taking minutes and shots from with this signing

Tell me how Rudy regressed last season. Please, I am anxiously awaiting this.

 

[The Messenger]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Allen Iverson, on and off the court, is a more exciting player than OJ Mayo (who has Allen Iverson - in his prime - potential)

I don't see how getting a sixth man is going to affect your chemistry within the starters. Sure, Z-bo might, but an off-the-bench player is going to kill your three starters' chemistry...?

OJ Mayo isn't Allen Iverson and he doesn't have "Allen Iverson potential". Holy shit, where do you people come up with this stuff?

 

[Justo]

lol at Messenger cleanin up Grizzlie facts :thumbsup:

 

[The Messenger]

Did you watch the melt down of Detroit last year when he was a 6th man?

A.I. wants to Memphis to be a starter.. that means your up & coming talent like Mayo and Conley are going to be effected.

Recipe for disaster when it comes to chemistry.. even though you say it wouldn't effect them.

No. Everyone needs to quit throwing the shit storm in Detroit all on AI's shoulders. It was a horrible move to trade the captain of your fucking defense and offense for a guy who expects to be the offense and doesn't give a shit on defense. That's Dumars' fault. They knew what they were getting with him and every person with a fucking brain knew that wasn't going to work. You also had Rasheed Wallace who didn't care. You've got your top 2 stars as players who just don't give a shit, and then your third guy is Rip Hamilton who needs to get the ball in the right spots off of screens to be very effective on offense, something Stuckey doesn't know how to do at this point and something Iverson has never done (getting Rip the ball in the right spots).

Detroit took it's best player and the entire core of it's team and traded it away for a piece that didn't fit in the puzzle.

 

[The Messenger]

The way he plays...

He's quick, small for a SG (yes I know, he has like 3 inches on Iverson, whatever), has a great mid-range that he seems to hit while moving (a lot like AI) and I think has potential to one day lead the league in scoring and be an MVP (like AI did)

What am I saying that's so crazy? lol

Except he's about 4-5 inches taller than AI (same size as D-Wade) which isn't undersized for a SG. Yes, he can put up points like AI, but he's not like AI. He's a worker on the defensive end of the ball and he doesn't care if he doesn't get his shots as long as he's playing in the offense.

I bet you guys don't even know that Mayo had multiple games last year where he didn't even score in double digits and they weren't bad shooting nights.

 

[The Messenger]

You are missing the whole point... A.I. doesn't want to come of the fucking bench.

Does Manu Ginobili come off the bench? Yes. But does he really? No. He's a starter. Same thing with Terry when he was coming off the bench. And the same thing can be said for a guy who you put in the starting lineup that plays maybe 3-5 minutes to start, and then comes back off the bench as a spark.

How many games did Julius Jones start for the Cowboys, but Marion Barber would get the majority of the carries?

 

[The Messenger]

Two completely different situations.. Manu & Terry are team guys, and Manu was also recovering from injury.

A.I. has been a Me First player his whole career, and can't stand coming off the bench as evident by last season with Detroit.

AI doesn't want to come off the bench, but there are situations that could involve him starting, but playing with the bench guys. Obviously you missed the point as I wasn't comparing the player he is to Manu or Terry, but the role he could play for the team.

And splitting time between backs in the NFL is such a weak argument.. Its part of the offensive scheme.. Jones got things going, Marion finished them off.

It may not have been a great argument, mainly because it's two different sports, but it holds some sort of relevance.

 

[The Messenger]

well for starters he played ever-so-slightly more minutes as the season prior but averaged fewer points, threes, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks, his FG% and FT% declined, and his turnovers went up

his play inspired this excellent write-up - it points out a number of factors for his stunted growth, and those should only be exacerbated with z-bo now on board
http://cmimemphis.com/grizblog/node/431

the grizz slowed things way down when they installed marc gasol as the starting center, and adding z-bo to the mix is only going to take that another step further. gay will be the 4th option on offense more often than not, so i'm not sure how he'll be able to take a step forward under those circumstances. if AI is also added, then they should just trade him for an elite defender that doesn't need any shots

They slowed things down on offense because prior to Gasol, the Grizzlies were trying to implicate a Phoenix Suns style of offense where they ran the court like trackstars and played zero defense. The year before Iavaroni came (horrible coach btw), we had Tony Barone Jr as the interim head coach. He said more often than not that he wasn't interested in coaching and calling plays, he was just going to let the guys go out there, run the court, and play their game. Horrible coaching method right? Well it carried over with Iavaroni.

So Rudy Gay got to play his first two years of basketball under shit coaching that didn't care what he was doing out there. He learned nothing other than a 3 point shot (which is about all the Grizzlies could teach you). His stats were up there because he was the main go-to-guy on a team that was pacing the floor like it was nobodies business. In hindsight I want to blame it on bad coaching (which it was), but when you got a bad coach throwing out bad players with 1 or 2 good guys sprinkled in, I guess you can't really expect anything more.

The next year you add in Marc Gasol, a guy who at least needs to be somewhat respected in the low-post (see the opposite of Darko Milicic) and a rookie who can give you 30 points on any given night on natural scoring ability. Of course his stats are going to go down, but the offense is not taking the ball away from Rudy, Rudy is just not developing and taking over the game. But since you aren't a Grizz fan and probably watch a total of 5-10 Grizz games a year, I don't expect you to know that. Rudy Gay was never the guy who wanted to take over the game. He never had that killer instinct in him. There were so many games where I was pulling my hair out because Gasol was injured and it was the Mike and Rudy show and Mike Miller was the guy who had to take over because Rudy never stepped up to the plate. Of course, that doesn't come up in stats so I don't expect you to know that.

What you don't see while your mulling over field goal percentages, rebounds per 48 minutes, and how many points Rudy Gay has scored during the last 2 minutes and 38 seconds of every game, is a player who has never had it in him to be the star guy who wants to take over games. That's why I, and the smarter Grizz fans (hard to find many of em here in Memphis) were excited about OJ Mayo because he's a born scorer who wants the rock in his hands when the game is on the line, something Rudy didn't give two shits about.

Does that make Rudy Gay a bad player? Hell no. At this point in time he's probably my favorite player in the NBA (and I can say all this shit about him), but Rudy is what he is. He's a 3rd-tier guy kinda like a Richard Jefferson who's going to need to be supported by an All-Star franchise type player like OJ Mayo and a complimentary 2nd-to-3rd tier big man who can score in the post.

 

[ralaw]

Mayo and Gay play defense. Mayo came in as one of the rookies last year who actually prided himself on the defensive end. Mayo drew comparisons during the draft to Kobe because he's a lights out scorer, but he also brings it on defense.

Gay's not a horrible defender, but he's not the great defender a lot of people think he is just because they look at his stats. He's average, but he plays defense and he tries on the defensive end.

Randolph and AI, well of course they don't, but I can't see AI starting. He'd be the 6th man off the bench who is gonna run the second unit. And if he does start, it's just going to be for show. He'll play 3-5 minutes, then get out until Rudy and Mayo need a break.

We were an average defensive team and a horrible rebounding team. We got hustle and defense through the draft with Thabeet, Sam Young, and DaMarre Carroll. We got rebounding with Thabeet and Randolph.

You're right Mayo does at least attempt to play defense and compete, but the rest really don't care. Gay simply plays the passing lanes, which is good, but not really maximizing his athletic potential as a defender. You are also correct in that the brought in defense guys in Thabeet, Young and Carroll, but none of those guys will provide perimeter defense, which is what makes a post defenders job easier. Disrupting a teams offense on the perimeter can win games. AI has never shown the desire to compete defensively.

I seriously don't see AI coming of the bench. AI contacted the Grizzlies to be the starter and pretty much said he'd rather retire then to come of the bench. AI isn't a good fit for this team.

 

[The Messenger]

You're right Mayo does at least attempt to play defense and compete, but the rest really don't care. Gay simply plays the passing lanes, which is good, but not really maximizing his athletic potential as a defender. You are also correct in that the brought in defense guys in Thabeet, Young and Carroll, but none of those guys will provide perimeter defense, which is what makes a post defenders job easier. Disrupting a teams offense on the perimeter can win games. AI has never shown the desire to compete defensively.

I seriously don't see AI coming of the bench. AI contacted the Grizzlies to be the starter and pretty much said he'd rather retire then to come of the bench. AI isn't a good fit for this team.

Young and Carroll won't provide perimeter defense? No offense, but have you watched Young and Carroll play before? Carroll's a guy who will go out there on the wing and guard a shooting guard, and he can wrestle with the big boys inside. If anything, he'll be more of a perimeter defender because he's giving up a lot of weight in the NBA. Young's always been a perimeter defender.

I understand AI may not be the best move, I'm just trying to clarify the misconceptions in this thread about the Grizzlies as a whole. Seems too many people are relying on stats and Sportscenter, and haven't seen a Grizzlies game in their life.

 

[The Messenger]

heh so are you saying he did regress or he didn't? did you read that write-up or not? agree with it or disagree with it?

gay's reputation hasn't changed since he was in college - that's what i, and the knowledgeable basketball fans, know that he really needs to really be a featured player to exert maximum effort on both ends of the court. he was trending upward at the end of 07-08, but with an assertive mayo on board, conley's improvement, and the team's style change, he took a step back instead of the expected step forward - something really broken down in great detail in that write-up i posted. with another alpha offensive personality on board in randolph, gay is basically going to be the 4th option more often than not for those same reasons

and a heads up - people that quote stats frequently can also have a wide knowledge of the NBA game that goes beyond the numbers. there's no need to condescend like you are on some higher plain of existence. i did qualify the numbers with "for starters", and when you see that it usually signifies that the person means it's only part of the story... like when i mentioned "a number of factors"

You are saying that he regressed because he dropped 1.2 ppg, .3 apg, .2 spg, .2 bpg, .7 rpg, and his field goal percentage dipped by less than 1 percent. Do you see the stats you are arguing? Or are you just reading, "well he fell off in this, that, and the other". I'm laughing right now at how you think you got an argument here.

Let's go ahead and argue your minuscule stats you pulled up. Points is the only thing you can argue as far as a drop in his production due to OJ Mayo being a part of the system and taking shots away from Rudy. But really, 1.2 ppg? You're gonna argue that?

.3 assists. You've watched the Grizzlies before I'm assuming, well actually I'm convinced you haven't but let's go with you've watched them casually, you would know that Rudy Gay has never been a great passer and he's never been the guy who finds players in good spots with the ball. I think his rookie season he went something like the first 6-8 games without even recording an assist. OJ Mayo's fault, right? The coach's fault, right? Or maybe Rudy couldn't muster 1 more assist every 3 or 4games. You see how stupid that sounds?

The .2 steals and the .2 blocks per game, please explain to me how that's a part of Rudy's role regressing on offense.

The field goal percentage, you realize you are arguing over a .9 percent drop, right? That means out of 100-105 shots or so, he missed 1 extra shot this year than he did last year. Once again, do you realize how stupid that sounds?

Don't bring up his threes because Rudy became a much better three point shooter (well at least in your book because he skyrocketed like half a percentage there). Maybe his three point attempts went down because the Grizzlies picked up a guy who can hit threes in OJ Mayo and Rudy wasn't forced to take forced threes with the clock running down. Maybe that's the reason, but then again, maybe it was the system regressing Rudy's role in the offense.

Rudy needs to be the featured guy? So, on your basketball team, you want Rudy as the featured guy above OJ Mayo? So you want a guy who is close to maxing out at around 20 ppg, who's scared to take over ball games, who doesn't command the ball, and plays average defense, to be your featured guy... above a guy like OJ Mayo who in his rookie season matched what Rudy did in his third, who loves to play defense, loves to get to the rim, loves to get to the free throw line, and wants to be the guy to put the team on his back and win games? You want Rudy over Mayo as the featured guy?

Rudy didn't regress. He's doing the same thing he's done since the All-Star break of the first season stats wise. But if you look at what he's doing on the court, he's progressing. He wasn't going to be the guy to lead a team, that's just not him and he showed it night after night. He's not forcing his shots anymore and he's learning how to play in a system and alongside a star player which he needs to be doing.

You can argue that he regressed in stats, but like I said, it's all fractions of a fucking point. I don't even know if you get that or not.

And you can say what you want about stats being a number of factors, but your argument is stats, stats, stats, with fluff added in that you drew off of those stats. You haven't sat down and watched the game. Or maybe you have, but you can't comprehend how the game in itself works.

 

[ralaw]

Young and Carroll won't provide perimeter defense? No offense, but have you watched Young and Carroll play before? Carroll's a guy who will go out there on the wing and guard a shooting guard, and he can wrestle with the big boys inside. If anything, he'll be more of a perimeter defender because he's giving up a lot of weight in the NBA. Young's always been a perimeter defender.

IMO because you are a Grizzlies fan you are overrating both Young and Carrol. Young is not the type of perimeter defender who has the footspeed to keep up with the leagues perimeter players. Defensively, Carrol isn't anything special on the perimeter. I'm not saying either are bad defenders, but neither are going to bring any real perimeter defensive presence either. At best the both of them will be journeymen types who simply take up a roster spot.