Baseball Analysis 101: Top 5 Things that need to go

[FedEx227]

Yeah the only baseball fan I know who still uses average as his sole basis of evaluating a hitter finishes last in our fantasy league every year so I just let him keep doing it.

I told him about OPS like 3 years ago, it was like the first time he heard the Beatles.

You're just jealous because he got Erick Aybar and YOU didn't.

 

[NAHSTE]

You're just jealous because he got Erick Aybar and YOU didn't.

He's forever known in our league as "The guy who dropped Dustin Pedroia halfway through his MVP season"

 

[FedEx227]

Oh boy. I know I did that with someone too. I have to look back in the archives, but there's a drop I made like 2 months into the season and the guy was like top-3 MVP. I'll have to look back and remember who it was.

 

[FirstTimer]

I didn't say anything thought-provoking, really? This thread is...how many pages long? Thanks.

You've had pages of people pointing out how your analysis is flawed for numerous reasons and I even pointed out pages ago how "eliminating" stats would be a bad idea.

You made a completely pointless article and people have shown you why.

Simply because people call you out on your flawed ideas doesn't mean it provoked any real meaningful thought.

Wow, we should use more than one stat when evaluating a player...Interesting. Let me reflect on tha....ok done.

 

[FedEx227]

My point though, before people knew Lefty wrote it. There were agreements with the article that it was a pretty decent one, some people agreed/some disagreed. We had a few comments, etc.

Once Senser realized Lefty did it the flood gates opened and it became "you're a retarded" "OMG ITZ SO OBVIOUS YOU USE MULTIPLE STATS" blah blah blah. Like every article on VSN's frontpage is some groundbreaking shit. They are 90% fluff pieces anyway. http://www.virtualsportsnet.com/2010/01/30/the-pro-bowl-problem/ OMG THE PRO BOWL SUCKS... THANKS FOR THE NEWSFLASH DELL!!!! UR RETARDED!!!

I just hate that this is the level of baseball talk we have on this site. We have a lot of people that could really have some great discussions but instead we get this crap on a weekly basis.

Again, I think both sides have been pretty comical on this argument, both share the blame but it's gotten ridiculous.

 

[FedEx227]

Really? The groan for wishing we had better baseball discussion on this site that didn't turn into 5 pages of "you're a retard"?

 

[Senser81]

Whoa whoa whoa there, buddy. I just discovered the use of the groan button, and I groaned like 3 posts, 4 tops. So let's keep those kinds of accusations under control.

But the other stuff? Yeah that's all true, especially about me.

LOL. I revenge groaned your postings in this site after I was hit by YOUR groan bomb. You even groaned my posting which asked "What are your thoughts on the 1987 NL Cy Young?"

What is wrong with you?

 

[FirstTimer]

No, I've had pages of people groaning and trolling me because....I don't know why.

Because your analysis is flawed. Especially concerning your reasoning behind batting average.

The reaction was more than favorable when everyone thought Rush or someone other than me wrote the article,

Where has anyone backed off or changed an opinion they held once they heard you wrote it? Senser has been attacking you on batting average which he disagreed with from the start.

My point though, before people knew Lefty wrote it. There were agreements with the article that it was a pretty decent one, some people agreed/some disagreed. We had a few comments, etc.

I never made any such statements so.....and as I pointed out Senser's main point of contention for pages has been his reasoing and analysis of the battign average point.....Even if Senser only somewhat disagrees with his overall idea he can still take him to task for taking a retarded route to get there.

Once Senser realized Lefty did it the flood gates opened and it became "you're a retarded" "OMG ITZ SO OBVIOUS YOU USE MULTIPLE STATS" blah blah blah. Like every article on VSN's frontpage is some groundbreaking shit. They are 90% fluff pieces anyway. http://www.virtualsportsnet.com/2010/01/30/the-pro-bowl-problem/ OMG THE PRO BOWL SUCKS... THANKS FOR THE NEWSFLASH DELL!!!! UR RETARDED!!!

Dell presents those as puff pieces. If they are puff pieces defend them as such, don't act as though there was any real research put into them or that your reasoning behind it is a cold hard lock...when it obviously isn't.

I just hate that this is the level of baseball talk we have on this site.

Then don't have people posting articles with ideas that 5th grade baseball fans understand?

Problem solved.

 

[Senser81]

Funny how people commented that it was a good article when they thought Rush wrote it.



Some what of a different tone from Senser there... huh?



More to my point that we'll never have a decent baseball discussion on this site because it will inevitably turn into Senser/Warner/First vs. Lefty where everyone who thinks differently or sees the game differently is retarded, a moron and should just kill themselves.

Thanks, big guy. The article was fine...not exactly earth-shattering but nothing incendiary. The difference is that Rush didn't come into this thread and start slamming everyone like Lefty34 did. I didn't realize that there was a person like yourself (i.e retarded) who could not see the OBVIOUS difference between someone writing an article and someone "defending" said article by groan-bombing people and calling them names.

On point, I can back up everything I've said in this thread. I feel that I am actually trying to argue some sports-related points...if you don't agree, then prove me wrong.

 

[FedEx227]

Then don't have people posting articles with ideas that 5th grade baseball fans understand?

Problem solved.

Then the VSN frontpage doesn't exist.

Highlights from the past two weeks include: Pro Bowl sucks article by dell, generic conference weekend previews, list about bad sports announcers, a youtube video of a 6-year old playing football a story about Favre singing Pants on the Ground.

They are all generic, simple pieces. Lefty sent Rush a ton of other articles (we linked our Bleacher Report account), he chose to publish that one because it was the most basic, was a list and very straightforward.

The bias towards Lefty's articles and thoughts, whether you agree with them or not is really reached a level where we cannot have a civil/actual discourse if it involves Lefty, you, Senser or Warner. It's so damn retardedly childish, especially considering we're some of the older posts on this board.

 

[Senser81]

I told you about the Cy Young thing. I'm sorry you got clipped, but it had to happen.

That doesn't really answer my follow-up question of "what is wrong with you?"...actually, it does, in a way.

 

[FedEx227]

Thanks, big guy. The article was fine...not exactly earth-shattering but nothing incendiary. The difference is that Rush didn't come into this thread and start slamming everyone like Lefty34 did. I didn't realize that there was a person like yourself (i.e retarded) who could not see the OBVIOUS difference between someone writing an article and someone "defending" said article by groan-bombing people and calling them names.

On point, I can back up everything I've said in this thread. I feel that I am actually trying to argue some sports-related points...if you don't agree, then prove me wrong.

I just feel the way you defend your points (Lefty too), turns every thread that COULD be actually baseball discussion that others can get involved...into a 4-man groan/retard fest.

That's all I mean. I know that's your style/schitck or whatever, but it just really lowers the amount of actual discussion we can have because it becomes less about the point that you're (or Lefty/Warner/First) is trying to make and more on how the other guy is an idiot.

 

[FirstTimer]

Then the VSN frontpage doesn't exist.

VSN has a frontpage?

Highlights from the past two weeks include: Pro Bowl sucks article by dell, generic conference weekend previews, list about bad sports announcers, a youtube video of a 6-year old playing football a story about Favre singing Pants on the Ground.

So basically don't take any article Lefty ever writes that appears on the main page as being serious?

They are all generic, simple pieces.

Yet Lefty says that "inane" "Idle" chat needs to leave the baseball forum when talking with W2B? If he thinks that then why is he writing inane idle pieces and defending them in the section?

The bias towards Lefty's articles and thoughts, whether you agree with them or not is really reached a level where we cannot have a civil/actual discourse if it involves Lefty, you, Senser or Warner. It's so damn retardedly childish, especially considering we're some of the older posts on this board.

Yeah because my posts about it being a simplistic article and idea are WAY off base? Honestly, if you don't want people to bash an article for being simple minded then don't write one and don't send it to a guy who runs a website so that he might post it on said website.

 

[Senser81]

The bias towards Lefty's articles and thoughts, whether you agree with them or not is really reached a level where we cannot have a civil/actual discourse if it involves Lefty, you, Senser or Warner. It's so damn retardedly childish, especially considering we're some of the older posts on this board.

Boo! I take 0% responsibility for Lefty's idiocy. I can have a baseball discourse with you, Rush, dell, W2B, etc., and I have done so many times in the past. I can even comment on Lefty's article. Its amazing how NO ONE really had any issue with Lefty's article initially...the problem started when Lefty came in with his groan-bombs, ill-humor, and complete disregard to logic.

If you can't see that Lefty is the problem here, and not "everyone else", then you are blind.

 

[NAHSTE]

Hold on, quit making it sound like I just came into this thread after people had read and responded to my article and started acting a fool. I started by quoting people that disagreed with my points and addressed them as best I could from my perspective. Warner then made a matter-of-fact statement about pitching wins balancing out, something that was certainly not obvious to me (and though no one would admit it, they didn't know it either), and I asked him to prove it.

He then queened out at me for asking him to back up that statement, and all the trollers that don't like me jumped on with "you're stupid/retarded" posts and I defended myself and got a little out of hand in the process. So don't make it seem as though everyone was doing just find until I came into this thread and started smacking people.

Are you serious? How do we need "metrics" to prove this? I thought everyone knew this, hence the phrase "You win some, you lose some"?

 

[Senser81]

That's all I mean. I know that's your style/schitck or whatever, but it just really lowers the amount of actual discussion we can have because it becomes less about the point that you're (or Lefty/Warner/First) is trying to make and more on how the other guy is an idiot.

Disagree COMPLETELY. I have spent post after post making on-topic observations and have comported myself well. I can't help it if you don't like my baseball-related thoughts or are too dim to understand them.

What YOU are doing right now, b!tching about everyone instead of placing the entire blame on Lefty34, is actually lowering the amount of actual discussion. The point is simple...Lefty34 is an idiot AND/OR does not explain himself very well, and nobody likes him. You calling everyone else out on his behalf will not endear Lefty34 to anyone.

 

[FedEx227]

I know for a fact Lefty didn't groan-bomb initially. I think he just found out about the button like 2 hours ago.

And no, we haven't always had the best discourse with each other. Many times our arguments have spiraled into this same trap. Ditto for Warner and I.

I'm just saying, coming up on baseball season I really wish we could stop acting like 9-year olds on this site. Whether it's Lefty, you, Warner, FirstTimer, Rush or actual 9-year olds like Yawkey.

 

[FirstTimer]

Hold on, quit making it sound like I just came into this thread after people had read and responded to my article and started acting a fool. I started by quoting people that disagreed with my points and addressed them as best I could from my perspective. Warner then made a matter-of-fact statement about pitching wins balancing out, something that was certainly not obvious to me (and though no one would admit it, they didn't know it either), and I asked him to prove it.

LOL at you jumping on Warner for making a matter of fact statement when it was obvious to anyone who ever watched baseball..........when you wrote an entire article on things that are beyond obvious to anyone who watches baseball and act as though it takes any real statistical analysis to know it.

Bad wins and tough luck losses even out.

You have to look at more than one stat when analyzing a player.

Both are simple, obvious comments.

The difference? W2B didn't write an entire pointless article on the subject.

 

[Rush]

Groans are for women.

 

[FedEx227]

Disagree COMPLETELY. I have spent post after post making on-topic observations and have comported myself well. I can't help it if you don't like my baseball-related thoughts or are too dim to understand them.

What YOU are doing right now, b!tching about everyone instead of placing the entire blame on Lefty34, is actually lowering the amount of actual discussion. The point is simple...Lefty34 is an idiot AND/OR does not explain himself very well, and nobody likes him. You calling everyone else out on his behalf will not endear Lefty34 to anyone.

I'm not. I've placed him in the blame just as much as you. I agree, all sides act abrasive towards one another.

The point is, you can make your points with succouming to personal attacks or the "your argument is stupid it's like *insert hyperbole about another sport*"

Just as Lefty struggles with handling people disagreeing with his points.

We all have our faults, I just think the level of shitty posts that all our baseball threads turn into is all but ruining whatever baseball discussion we could have. You can argue and disagree with people without having to personally attack the others. We should be beyond that, but we aren't.