Best in the Game Series, Part 4: Catchers

[ThomasTomasz]

The lack of respect fo V-Mart in this thread is troubling.

I know the guy isn't great defensivley but you can't ignore career averages hitting of:

.300 Avg
21 HR's
103 RBI's
.369 OBP
.469 SLG

I would say:
Mauer

McCann just barely ahead of V-Mart
Then Posey.

Catcher is a position where defense comes first. It's not like any other position, where a subpar defender might not hurt. If you don't have a good defensive catcher, a lot of issues could arise. Martinez puts up some solid offensive numbers, but he already plays first base to get him out from behind the plate and he was never anything above "average" behind the plate.

 

[FedEx227]

That's really turned the corner lately though.

I can name on one hand the amount of guys that are defensive-only catchers ala your Brad Ausmus' of the past. Even a lot of the backup catchers are guy that can legitimately hit well.

It's becoming very much a position (like really every MLB position SS included) where offense is considered more important then defense. Obviously you mentioned extreme cases like Martinez, but if you're somewhat average behind the plate but very good offensively there isn't the same movement to move you to 1B/LF/3B, etc.

 

[FirstTimer]

That's really turned the corner lately though.

I can name on one hand the amount of guys that are defensive-only catchers ala your Brad Ausmus' of the past. Even a lot of the backup catchers are guy that can legitimately hit well.

It's becoming very much a position (like really every MLB position SS included) where offense is considered more important then defense. Obviously you mentioned extreme cases like Martinez, but if you're somewhat average behind the plate but very good offensively there isn't the same movement to move you to 1B/LF/3B, etc.

This. Band B had a good article on it from Baseball Prospectus or some other organization showing how with less stealing now an offensive first catcher will pretty much easily product more runs than he will "save" by being good defensivley.
(I assume you listened to that show because your argument mirros what they talked about and even has the same Ausmus reference)

Yadier Molina is the best defensive cacther of this era, and by a good margin IMO, but he's not mentioned as one of the best in baseball because he can't hit and produce runs.

Mike Piazza is going to the HOF and I question if he could even throw me out.

Catcher is no longer a defense first position IMO.

 

[FedEx227]

I'm actually not sure if I heard their segment on it, I've read the article I believe they are referencing though. Do you know what day it was? I haven't listened to much of them this week.

My reference was mainly because I never understood the enfacuation with Brad Ausmus, he's also the last that came to mind of the real "I'm going to hit .214 but god dammit I don't let balls get past me" crowd.

And yeah the position is not defensive-first anymore, it's simply not.

1) No longer are teams okay with giving up outs at 2B for CS. There's much more understanding now of how precious outs and base runners are for scoring runs and winning games that it's becoming not a lost art, but a more studied, value-based thing.

2) Pitchers have quicker deliveries which in turn is keeping base runners at bay because the ball is getting there quicker. Which in turn is causing far less catchers needing to throw guys out.

You combine those two things and there's simply no reason to have a bad offense player behind the plate just because he's really good at defense.

 

[FirstTimer]

I'm actually not sure if I heard their segment on it, I've read the article I believe they are referencing though. Do you know what day it was? I haven't listened to much of them this week.

It was either early this week or late last week. Can't recall.

And yeah the position is not defensive-first anymore, it's simply not.

1) No longer are teams okay with giving up outs at 2B for CS. There's much more understanding now of how precious outs and base runners are for scoring runs and winning games that it's becoming not a lost art, but a more studied, value-based thing.

2) Pitchers have quicker deliveries which in turn is keeping base runners at bay because the ball is getting there quicker. Which in turn is causing far less catchers needing to throw guys out.

You combine those two things and there's simply no reason to have a bad offense player behind the plate just because he's really good at defense.

You could always be the Cubs can keep Koyie Hill, who is seemingly bad at everything baseball related.

 

[FedEx227]

That was Lou's guy.

It was unbelievable that Soto was having one of the better offensive years for a catcher in the NL and he was still getting benched for fucking Koyie Hill seemingly 2-3 times a week.

 

[FirstTimer]

That was Lou's guy.

It was unbelievable that Soto was having one of the better offensive years for a catcher in the NL and he was still getting benched for fucking Koyie Hill seemingly 2-3 times a week.

Looks like this ass bag might make the roster again this year. I know some people are hoping for Max Ramirez. Has Hill gotten a hit this spring yet?

 

[Brotha2ThaNight]

if did one without Pujols then this one shouldnt include Mauer

 

[Mark Skid]

Buster Posey

 

[NAHSTE]

Don't know about you, but I don't see a second horse...

Agreed.

McCann stands alone.

:smug:

 

[Woy]

Agreed.

McCann stands alone.

:smug: