Calgary Flames avoid potential disaster lulz with Ryan O'Riley

[Ravin]

Guy with 'noob' in his name who needed his 'teammates' to back up his neg rep is telling us how to score goals. :jonesy:

 

[ssags11]

Guy with 'noob' in his name who needed his 'teammates' to back up his neg rep is telling us how to score goals. :jonesy:

First off, I could care less about rep. I never asked or do I gave two shits about reputation. Noob? OH OUCH , some clowns on the internet think I am a noob, maybe I need my blankie around here as it seems people care more about groaning and liking than discussions.

But here's the deal child. You make insults, you pretend you're a writer which after all this you are lying, that's clear. A supposed hockey writer for the Hockey News would have shut me down by now, but you can't, that tells me something about you and I hope everyone else can see it too. You had your chance little boy, you're a clown. You call me stupid but you can't refute or back up what you say while I on the other hand have given you many reasons why he doesn't belong. Who's really the stupid one? This is the second time we went head to head, you bring nothing to the table but 16 year old talk.

This site...it's about one liners, insults and zingers, there's no real discussion around here. Then little faggy ass posses run around and have groan wars at each other. WOW, great place you have here, enjoy it.

 

[Ravin]

Maybe you should move along then old man, because you clearly get way to butt hurt over everyone who doesn't share your opinion. This site does have good discussion, but you seem like one of those old men who is just so stuck in his ways, and thinks their opinion and thought is gospel and it is why you have such a bad rep. You keep saying "well other places and other people share my opinion on -enter topic-". Well go to those forums if that is what you want.

It is that reason I don't bother getting into it with you. A guy winning three cups with three different teams, scoring 1,126 career points (53rd all time), winning a Conn Smyth with six of his 11 goals being game winners in the playoffs, and also a Gold Medal for Canada in 2002, plus also being one of the leagues class acts, isn't a good enough reason for you, you want more awards, break out seasons, 100+ point seasons, first and second team ballots. Like if you seriously can't see why he should be in the Hall then there is really nothing I can say or add. He was regarded as a top face off guy, a very good two way forward, and he was a leader on every team he was on.

 

[ssags11]

All Nieuwendyk has is 1 Conn Symthe, 3 Cups...so does Claude Lemieux. Find something better.

Does anyone even remember JN being on that New Jersey team? Not many, I can guarantee that. His third Cup is a joke, he didn't even play in the finals and barely contributed overall in those playoffs. 17 games, 3 goals, 6 assists with limited TOI.

Lets' see:

Never top 10 overall points for any year, zero 1st or 2nd team selections, never dominated his peers, zero Hart or Pearson votes, statistically never lead in any category except GWGs, never a top 10 players in the league not even for one season did he crack the top 10, not a point per game player, only 4 allstar games in 20 years.

Never the best player on his own team: Calgary (Mullen, Fluery, MacGinnis, and Suter) Dallas (Modano, Hull) New Jersey (Brodeur, Stevens, Ellias, Niedermayer, Rafalski)


Why he gets in. Neely, Federko, Gillies and Dick Duff (arguably about Duff) are in, the bar for the Hall has been lowered. Had intangibles, 1 Conn Symthe, 3 Rings, over 500 goals. #10 in GWGs.

In short, JN was a very good player that played for a long time but never stood out on any team he played on, solid player for Team Canada but hardly the star player for either team he played on.

Now, if you have more to add, let's see.

PS Im not that old unless as I believe most of you are in your teens as you all seem fixated on dumb shit like "groans and likes"

 

[wr50l]

PS Im not that old unless as I believe most of you are in your teens as you all seem fixated on dumb shit like "groans and likes"

Well Dave is 40, KG has the lungs of an 80 year old, Leaffan has the heart of an 80 year old, and me and Ravin have the physical strength of an 80 year old.

 

[ssags11]

Nieuwendyk opens the door for statistically similar players like Brian Propp, Dave Andreychuk, Sergi Marakov, Keith Tkachuk, Jeremy Roenick, Butch Goring, Rod Brind'Amour,

Thomas Holstrom - 4 Cups, 1 gold = not in the Hall
Claude Lemieux - 4 Cups, Conn Symthe = not in the Hall
Mike Keene - 3 Cups
Cory Stillman - 3 Cups
Al Arbour - 3 Cups

From someone else:

I still can't believe Nieuwendyk won the Smythe in 1999. Don't get me wrong, he was a beast that year and came up with a ton of clutch goals for the Stars, but it was simply a case of voters looking at the GWG totals and deciding that since Nieuwendyk had more than everyone else, he must have been the most valuable player. He wasn't even the best center on the team that postseason. Mike Modano was playing 24 minutes per game, compared to Nieuwendyk's 16, and was doing it playing in every situation. Modano anchored their top PK unit, their top PP unit, their top forward line, everything. He broke his wrist in Game 3, missed one game (Nieuwendyk scored the GWG), and came back to set up every single Stars goal in Games 5 and 6. If that isn't a Conn Smythe-worthy performance, I don't know what is. Ed Belfour easily should have gotten it over Nieuwendyk too. I think he lost points because he played behind Ken Hitchcock's suffocating defensive system, but he went head-to-head with the guy who is widely considered the greatest goalie of all-time IN HIS PRIME, and went save for save with him. And beat him.

From a NewJersey fan and "yes" vote for the Hall:

Joe N only played 16 minutes per game in 1999? Pretty hard to be your team's most valuable player when those are the minutes you're playing.

He was a veteran presence in 2003, but not one of the most important players on the Devils. Injured for pretty much the whole finals.

These players were more valuable than Joe N in 2003: Scott Niedermayer, Martin Brodeur, Scott Stevens, Jamie Langenbrunner, John Madden, Jeff Friesen, Brian Rafalski, Patrik Elias, Colin White.

Joe N was, at best, the 10th most important player on the 2003 Devils.

Joe gets a lot of credit for being the "missing piece" on three different Cup winners.

In response to and none of them are my comments: http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...rce=newsletter

He would be one of the worst inductees ever and I have no idea why people want him in the HHoF - let alone 1st ballot

"By the time he won a Cup with New Jersey in 2003, Nieuwendyk was a shutdown specialist."

Absolutely laughable. He was responsible in his own end,l but nothing special.

wow, I can't tell if he's talking about Nieuwendyk here or if he's talking about someone like Brind'Amour or Gilmour. Nieuwendyk was NEVER an elite two-way centerman. Good yes, but there is a huge difference between good and elite. About the only two statements there that are accurate are that he won the Conn Smythe with Dallas and that he was one of the top players in the league in faceoffs. He was, at no point in his career, a shut down specialist.

I am honestly baffled by it. So essentially if you have a good, but never great, career and are likeable enough you are a shoe-in for the HHoF? I really hope not.

Out of curiousity, how many forwards in the Hall were never even top 10 in points or never received a single post-season all-star team selection?

Always disappointed in the lack of even mentions M. Howe receives.

is it time to create a new category: compiler of accomplishments? i.e., a guy who looks significantly better on paper than he did on the ice, but for reasons other than just career numbers.

nieuwendyk hits a lot of important accomplishments: conn smythe, three cups, as well as comfortably topping 500 goals and 1,000 points. but, to take nothing away from his one great playoff run in dallas, that was a pretty quiet conn smythe as conn smythes go. and the other two would certainly be very quiet cups for a hall of famer. the numbers he put up were also very quiet numbers.

the same argument (compiler, "quiet" numbers) has been leveled against guys ranging from luc robitaille to dave andreychuk. with luc, i think it's a bit unfair. but, like andreychuk, nieuwendyk was elite at a couple of things: nieuwendyk was great at working the slot on the PP and winning faceoffs. and, like andreychuk, he played long enough in the right era to retire with impressive numbers, even though he was never an impact player overall. the only real difference is that nieuwendyk has that one great run (but it was not sakic/giguere/pronger great, maybe not even claude lemieux/brad richards great) and generally played on much better teams.

i always thought of nieuwendyk as a bit of a disappointment, kind of like trevor linden. linden was supposed to become a poor man's messier and ended up a poor man's brind'amour. nieuwendyk was supposed to be a poor man's esposito. because he put up those two 50 goal years back to back, then followed them up with two 45 goal years, the thinking was that he would someday take over that flames team and become the man when mac, mullen, gilmour, and others got older. i think it's very telling of nieuwendyk's career that it was fleury and roberts who eventually became the team's leaders when the young guys were no longer playing sheltered minutes. it may be even more telling that cliff fletcher, who knew a thing or two about the makeup of that flames team, said after the the big trade, "doug risebrough thought joe nieuwendyk was his number one center. now he will know that it was doug gilmour."

EDIT: nieuwendyk getting in for the reasons that are currently being bandied about in the media is an insult to guys like ron francis, who legitimately got in for a combination of longevity, consistency, leadership, defensive play, and community service

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I loved the guy with NJ (and because he played for Cornell), but he shouldn't get in. He was simply not an elite player.

consistent 40-50 goal scorer? he scored over 40 goals 4 times i 20 seasons.

and 3 cups in 3 different teams is a dumb argument for the HOF because of this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Keane.
things that basically anyone could achieve by just 3+seasons and luck should never be an argument for HOF induction. if he was a big contributer all 3 maybe.

he wasn´t.

The funny thing about Nieuwendyk is that he was almost never a number one centre. He never played the tough matchups against the other team's best players, and he was never on the first unit penalty kill. He basically spent his career as a second line centre getting the easy matchups, whether it was behind Gilmour, Modano, or Sundin, and playing on the power play. I can't think of any modern era HHOFers who fit that type offhand. Actually, looking at it that way, Jason Arnott is the most similar player I can think of.

From 1997-98 on, or basically Nieuwendyk's 30s, he never played more than 17 minutes a game. He was not a core player on any of his teams. And a fair number of his accomplishments came in that time, including the Conn Smythe and two Olympic Games for Team Canada

.

I find this one funny: BAHAHAHA

I think it's absurd this guy is probably going to get in because his career numbers draw oohs and aahs from the Hockey News writing staff. Plus, he was a nice guy.

Give me a break, put a real great player like Bure in the Hall. Or Gilmour and Oates, but not Joe Nieuwendyk. It wouldn't be a travesty, but when guys clearly his superior are left out in the cold it just looks bad.

Everything I see pushing for Nieuwendyk's induction seems to be stressing the "three Cups with three different teams" and the Conn Smythe as the focal part of the argument.

Does this make Claude Lemieux a shoo-in?

i'd really like to see an argument for nieuwendyk being demonstrably better than claude lemieux that doesn't rely on numbers.

there are a number of probably sub-HHOF guys from the same era that i'd take over nieuwendyk, guys who may not have compiled quite as much accolades and/or numbers but who i think did more in their careers and made more of a mark on the game. claude is one. fleury is another. mike vernon. kevin lowe. brad mccrimmon. tom barrasso. esa tikkanen. brian propp. jeremy roenick. patrik elias. it says something that three of those guys were nieuwendyk's teammates when he had his best years.

someone said in the HHOF '10 thread that it's a shame that a good guy like nieuwendyk may end up being talked about as one of the worst hall of famers ever instead of for the merits of his very good career, which we should remember fondly. i completely agree with that

.


Not one comment is from me, but I guess all of us are fucking stupid to you?

 

[Ravin]

I think I speak for everyone here....