Chargers Cut Tomlinson

[Champ]

I wouldnt mind taking him in NY but only on a pay cut. I like our RBs but Jacobs has yet to play a full season.

 

[hoodyallen]

I'm calling Denver. There is no better OL to run behind, and they've needed a real RB for a long time. Moreno showed promise last year, so if he has a good offseason, split the carries or go 60-40 to Moreno. Plus LT gets to stick it to his former team.

If they can get him at a reasonable price then a one year high reward deal ala Darren Sharper would be a great move that makes sense for both sides.

Denver makes a lot of sense. Heres a team that nobody is talking about, Philly? McCoy is a nice young back, but he's not scaring anybody on the Goal line, plus he's inconsistent.

 

[Champ]

Does this mean Hester is going to get more carries? I have always been a Jacbo Hester fan.

 

[bcransom]

I really doubt that LT is looking to go to Denver when he would be at the very best the 3rd string tailback. Knowshon wasn't even our best back last season.

Depends how you're looking at it. He had the most touchdowns and carries by a lot. Buckhalter beat him by a good amount in YPC partly because he was the change of pace back and got the 3rd and long looks, and also Moreno had a nagging injury IIRC.

In any case he's easily the most capable of being a #1 back that the Broncos have, and he's also the one they have the most invested in which we all know plays an enormous part in who touches the ball. So getting Tomlinson for a reasonable price, as I said, would make sense for both sides.

 

[bcransom]

Why would we bring in a guy who has averaged 3.8 and 3.3 yards per carry the last two seasons when we already have two backs that are better than him? You never addressed why it would be a good idea to pay LT to sit behind those two backs, or why he would want to come and be a 3rd stringer. I get the sense you didn't watch that many Broncos games.

Also Buckhalter missed more time than Moreno, and if you had watched the games and weren't just looking at the stats you would have noticed that Moreno would constantly run into the line or slip in the open field. He wasn't ready to be the starter last season, the only reason he had a lot of TDs is because he was fed the ball down on the goal line. I hope he improves but to say he was better than Buck last year is simply not correct.

Because he would be cheap, he would be high reward/low risk (Especially if he could get healthy), it puts him behind a fantastic line where he could possibly have a rebirth, it gives him the chance to play for a rival of the team that cut him on a squad with a lot of talent that could conceivably make a playoff run. You're acting like A. Because Tomlinson had rough seasons the past two years that's for sure what he'll do this next year, completely ignoring the possibility of a comeback from a future Hall of Famer.

They gave it to him on the goal line for a reason - because he's the more complete back. They gave him the ball 150 more times for a reason - because he's the more complete back. Buckhalter having a better year in vastly limited time doesn't make him better at anything. It just shows that he's a patient veteran who knows the game while Moreno is still raw. It's not as if signing LT would mean any sort of real commitment. If he didn't pan out he can be just be cut and forgotten in Denver. But there are definitely various reasons why a possible deal would make sense for each side. All I'm pointing out.

 

[Goober]

I'm calling Denver. There is no better OL to run behind, and they've needed a real RB for a long time. Moreno showed promise last year, so if he has a good offseason, split the carries or go 60-40 to Moreno. Plus LT gets to stick it to his former team.

If they can get him at a reasonable price then a one year high reward deal ala Darren Sharper would be a great move that makes sense for both sides.

Did you watch Denver's OL last year? GTFO, LDT sucks.
Even LaMont Jordan might be good enough to beat out LDT on the depth chart.

 

[bcransom]

Did you watch Denver's OL last year? GTFO, LDT sucks.
Even LaMont Jordan might be good enough to beat out LDT on the depth chart.

Of course I watched it, I'm not going to pretend I watched every Broncos game but I watched a good amount. Are you seriously disputing that Denver's OL is one of the best in the business? I'm not calling a great season out of LT. I'm saying that he's someone who could turn out to be a great signing and Denver is a place that could end up using him, and is known for bringing out the best in RB's.

Say he hovers around the 4 YPC mark up from 3.3 as a result of the huge boost from the OL. After watching your backfield torn up with injuries a couple seasons ago can you really discount the importance of depth?

 

[bcransom]

Uhhh this isn't Mike Shanahan's team anymore. The O-Line is far from great. The interior lineman were all made for a zone blocking scheme that we don't even use anymore and it was painfully obvious any time we would try and run the ball inside. We have needs at both guard spots and need to get someone in there to replace Weigmann too. And excuse me for ignoring the future comeback of a HoFer... Can you name for me a modern era back with the amount of touches that Tomlinson has ever having any kind of resurgence?

Denver has real needs that need to be addressed rather than bringing in the LT drama to couple with the Brandon Marshall drama we already have. In case you haven't noticed our head coach isn't all that into me-first guys who like to air their issues in the media. LT has never been one to shy away from the camera, especially when he has a gripe.

What you are proposing makes no sense on any level.

No this isn't Shanahan's team. Does that mean the zone system was scrapped or that the line didn't still perform at a high level? Nope. (Orton - 2nd most dropbacks. 8th most sacks among QB's who played all 16 games. OL did well paving paths for the backs) There was more man on man assignments than have been seen in quite a while but there was still a good amount of zoning. I question if they don't head back in that direction after watching sack counts balloon, and as you mentioned, undersized interior lineman.

What I'm proposing isn't a big move, it's a menial one. It's bringing in a guy who might contribute and might suck. Because it's a big name you're acting like it's a huge investment and risk that would block the team from dealing with these "real needs". Obviously it would be a low salary, this is an aging RB coming off a couple mediocre seasons. Would it be some kind of drawn out negotiation? No. Exactly how would signing this man take away AT ALL from any other players the Broncos want to pursue? It would not.

 

[bcransom]

It's not a RB coming off a couple bad seasons. It's a RB in decline, those are two different things. It may not be a big monetary investment but like I said before the last thing we need is a guy who has been a reputed whiner in the past being brought in to shake up an already tedious balance.

And to answer the bolded part, yes we did scrap the zone blocking system. This isn't a secret by any means. Maybe we ran some stretch plays and zone plays but everything was straight ahead. The cut blocks were noticeably absent all season long. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Can you name that modern era back who has had the big resurgence at 30+ for me yet?

Then I guess you'd have to do a little bit of paper work to cut him after he's UNDOUBTEDLY proven that he's completely worthless, and that all he wants to do is talk shit about the franchise. Sounds like a likely scenario. You seem to be under the delusion that big name = big transaction. The premise of my original post was that a guy with this much talent should be given a shot by a team with no real standout RB. You're acting like that's crazy talk.

What the hell are you talking about? The zone scheme was still used frequently this past season, why do you think Rick Dennison was kept around? You're a fan of the Broncos, coming off this season, and you're seriously completely unaware of the use of the zone system that OL Coach Rick Dennison helped make famous, claiming that it's been totally scrapped. Lol.

How does Thomas Jones sound?

 

[Goober]

LOL at using Rick Dennison, a coach who doesn't even coach for the Broncos anymore to try and prove your point.

 

[bcransom]

So why even risk bringing him in? Or better yet, why would he want to come to a team with a 1st round RB in front of him?

Risk bringing him in? What's this risk? Can't be money because I've stated numerous times it'd be low dollars. The thing about him being mouthy is stupid because he knows he's expendable, so what's in it for him there? You stated a few posts ago that Moreno isn't ready to start. IS THERE ANYONE in the league right now that can mentor him on the way to realizing his potential than LaDainian Tomlinson? Don't think so... no one is saying LT will make a huge contribution, but odds are he will be solid behind a good OL. And it's been seen many times in many sports - veterans coming to either a rival of a team that cut them or a team with mucho potential that could get them to a SB. Here LT can do both. The move also gives the Broncos more depth - something I hope you can appreciate.

It's crazy because the guy is leaving San Diego because he couldn't keep Darren Sproles off his back and now he's supposed to come in and beat a #12 overall pick and a guy we just signed last year who is coming off a great season? Again, what is the point. From both sides.

I didn't know a great season could be classified as 120 carries, 1 TD, and 3 fumbles.

See you keep yammering about him beating out Moreno, but as I said from my first post in here, LT would probably play second fiddle to Knowshon who much more probably will produce this next season.

LOL @ Rick Dennison made the zone blocking scheme famous.. Ever heard of a little guy by the name of Alex Gibbs? He was the one teaching the zone blocking scheme to Denver while Dennison was still coaching special teams. Nice try on that one though. And Dennison didn't do shit as far as the offense was concerned last season, that's why he was quickly shuttled off at the end of the season and is now with a real zone blocking team in the Texans. If we were such a zone blocking team why the hell did we go out and get Russ Hochstein and replace Hamilton with him early in the year?

I said he helped make it famous. Gonna deny that next? Try reading the words carefully next time.

Quickly shuttled off? You mean he was offered a position to be the offensive coordinator of a high powered offense and he left? Yeah okay. And I noticed you backed off the whole "scrapping the zone scheme" thing. Good idea. :applause:

Uhhh sounds like a completely different situation seeing as how Jones has been in the league a year longer that LT and still has 841! less touches than him at this point in their career. Try again.

He had 841 less touches because he sucked for the vast majority of his career, before having a resurgence with the Jets coming off a horrible year in 2007. If you're asking me to find a RB who came into the league the same year as LT, has more or the same amount of touches, and is over 30 and still in the league, I probably won't be able to find one. Jones is a perfectly legitimate example debunking your idiotic idea that RB's over 30 can't do well in this game, and I'm not surprised you didn't accept it.

How about Ricky Williams?

*Can't wait to hear about how the years off after leaving the game disgraced were an advantage for Williams.*

 

[bcransom]

LOL at using Rick Dennison, a coach who doesn't even coach for the Broncos anymore to try and prove your point.

Unfortunately, shit for brains, I was using Dennison to prove the point that the Broncos didn't scrap (As willet stated earlier with supreme authoritativeness) the zone scheme this past season. While Dennison was still the OL coach.

 

[citizenerased]

How about Ricky Williams?

*Can't wait to hear about how the years off after leaving the game disgraced were an advantage for Williams.*

Are you saying that playing those 3 extra years and getting pounded on an extra 1000 carries wouldn't have had an effect on his longevity?

 

[bcransom]

Are you saying that playing those 3 extra years and getting pounded on an extra 1000 carries wouldn't have had an effect on his longevity?

Are you saying that he wasn't aging and becoming slower during those three years like anyone else? Are you saying that a running back who is 28 now who takes 3 years off is bound to come back and be just as good as when he was in his 20's?

 

[Goober]

Unfortunately, shit for brains, I was using Dennison to prove the point that the Broncos didn't scrap (As willet stated earlier with supreme authoritativeness) the zone scheme this past season. While Dennison was still the OL coach.

You continue to assume the Broncos will continue to run the zone blocking scheme, which is idiotic. After Josh McDaniels was hired last year, he demoted Dennison (who was calling the plays previously) and took over play calling duties himself. Obviously it's hard to completely overhaul a team in one offseason, so McDaniels and the Broncos were stuck with Shanahan's zone blocking offensive line. Despite this, McDaniels began moving towards a power running game (something that he has referred to as his "bread and Butter" in interviews) despite limited resources. As the 2009 season progressed the Broncos ran less zone-blocking plays and replaced zone-blocking offensive lineman. The fact that the Broncos are getting rid of the zone-blocking scheme should be obvious to anyone who watched them play a time or two last year.

For further proof, with Dennison out the door, and most of the "zone-blocking" offensive lineman right behind him. The Broncos don't have any ties left to the zone-blocking scheme. Your argument is invalid.

 

[bcransom]

So why would he want to come to Denver over another team where he could be a starter or at the very least a #2? Does he offer Denver help in the areas the other two lack? Big play ability? Pass Blocking? Hell no.

He could want to burn the team that cut him.
He could surprise us all and rebound, as I've said.
Denver provides a good shot at the playoffs with little to no competition from the other two teams. The undefeated start showed everyone what they can do. I feel like I'm repeating myself. Probably because the things you're questioning I've answered multiple times.

He missed time and should have been the primary back. I already said that he didn't get the ball by the goal line because they were trying to showcase Knowshon. How'd that work out for our RZ offense which was among the worst in the league at getting TDs?

You honestly think they gave the ball to Knowshon on the Goal line over Buckhalter for no other reason than them wanting to showcase their number 1 pick? Couldn't have been that he's just more complete.

Uhhh I don't see him beating out Moreno or the guy who averaged 5.4 per last year. I don't even see him beating out Peyton Hillis.. His numbers have gone down every year because he's in decline.

What you don't "see" him doing is not something that should concern anyone here. Hillis is the perfect example of a back who benefited hugely from the zone scheme.

No. No he didn't. You're an idiot. Dennison was on the SPECIAL TEAMS STAFF during the entire Terrell Davis era and was an assistant to Gibbs during the Portis years. The ZBS was Shanny, Kubiak and Gibbs' baby and Dennison was only entrusted to keep things going when Gibbs left for Atlanta. He's responsible for the ballyhooed Tatum Bell era.

Offensive assistant from 95-96, Offensive Line Coach from 2001-2009.

"With the Broncos OL Dennison has overseen a unit that annually is regarded as the best in the business. The Broncos' line has helped the team rank second in the NFL in rushing (137.6 ypg.) and total offense (354.9 ypg.) since 2001 while posting four of the top-10 single-season marks in club history for both total yards and rushing yards."

Hell of a lot of success there. I'd say that running a system in which Ryan Torain, Selvin Young, Tatum Bell, Peyton Hillis, and various other no names is more difficult than one in which you've got Terrell Davis or Clinton Portis to work with. Again, I never said Dennison invented the scheme I said he helped make it famous.

In TJ's "terrible" 2007 season he still put up over 1000 yards and was able to carry the ball over 300 times. And last time I checked I don't think it was Philip Rivers back there keeping opposing defenses honest. LT couldn't have carried the ball 300 times this season if he wanted to. It's not so much the years that take the toll on players, it's the beating they take from absorbing hits. And the years off did help Ricky Williams, you really don't understand football if you don't know that.

Here's some better examples of RBs that carried a LTesque load and showed the same rapid deterioration that he did..

Edgerrin James

Shaun Alexander

Emmitt Smith

Exactly what I'm talking about. No matter what name is put forth, unless that person is an exact clone of LT with the exact same history in the league, you're always going to point out some 'vital' difference in the two and discount it.

 

[bcransom]

You continue to assume the Broncos will continue to run the zone blocking scheme, which is idiotic. After Josh McDaniels was hired last year, he demoted Dennison (who was calling the plays previously) and took over play calling duties himself. Obviously it's hard to completely overhaul a team in one offseason, so McDaniels and the Broncos were stuck with Shanahan's zone blocking offensive line. Despite this, McDaniels began moving towards a power running game (something that he has referred to as his "bread and Butter" in interviews) despite limited resources. As the 2009 season progressed the Broncos ran less zone-blocking plays and replaced zone-blocking offensive lineman. The fact that the Broncos are getting rid of the zone-blocking scheme should be obvious to anyone who watched them play a time or two last year.

For further proof, with Dennison out the door, and most of the "zone-blocking" offensive lineman right behind him. The Broncos don't have any ties left to the zone-blocking scheme. Your argument is invalid.

This entire post has nothing to do with the post you quoted and are responding to, and is nothing but a vomiting up of what is already being discussed.

Second paragraph: I'm just wondering who these zone blocking Offensive Lineman are who are out the door. Clady is there, Hamilton is there, Wieggman is there, Kuper is there, Harris is there. Like it or not they were much more successful in the Shanahan system before JMD incorporated more of a power blocking system.

 

[Goober]

This entire post has nothing to do with the post you quoted and are responding to, and is nothing but a vomiting up of what is already being discussed.

Second paragraph: I'm just wondering who these zone blocking Offensive Lineman are who are out the door. Clady is there, Hamilton is there, Wieggman is there, Kuper is there, Harris is there. Like it or not they were much more successful in the Shanahan system before JMD incorporated more of a power blocking system.

LOL at your continued failure. You obviously don't have a clue what's going on in the Bronco's organization, so why are you even posting?

My post was completely relevant to the conversation, and I'd say it owned the idiotic claims you've been making. I guess ignoring it is your best option at this point.

For the record, I expect something like this to be bcransom's next post:

I just noticed Jake Plummer is a free agent this offseason. Does anyone else think it would be a great idea for Denver to sign him? They already have a QB but I'm sure signing Plummer and allowing him to compete for a starting job wouldn't bring any negative to the team!

It would be a perfect fit, I remember watching the Broncos a few years ago and they ran a lot of bootlegs! I bet their new coach runs the same system! Plummer would be perfect in it!

 

[EmpireWF]

LDT is a bitch, and he sucks now.

takes a bitch to know a bitch, BITCH!

:jhen:

 

[GoChargers]

lol @ him going to Denver. Fuck Denver. LT knows they blow