Dell's Pointless Lists - Greatest NBA Small Forwards

[dell71]

Bumped cuz I'm completing the set.

 

[Liquidrob]

Dell, how old are you? Did you ever play the Dr.J vs. Larry Bird computer game? I used to play that all the time on my Commodore. Actually it was one of the best sports games for that system.

great game

 

[Liquidrob]

Pippen is the most overrated player in history, he was a great role-player and thats where it ends, he couldnt lead a team when he wasnt with Jordan

Wilkens was battling Bird and the Celtics in the playoffs going all out and when Pippen got his shot to be the man he was sitting on the bench while Toni Kukuc is hitting game winning shots

Great role-players should be graded under great players, sorry Pip

 

[Vinsane]

Pippen is the most overrated player in history, he was a great role-player and thats where it ends, he couldnt lead a team when he wasnt with Jordan

Wilkens was battling Bird and the Celtics in the playoffs going all out and when Pippen got his shot to be the man he was sitting on the bench while Toni Kukuc is hitting game winning shots

Great role-players should be graded under great players, sorry Pip

I guess overrated is being a player that can play any position on the court 1-5. Solid and complete game, he can score inside, he can score outside. Need rebounds? Pippen did that too. The Bulls without Pippen would of went no where, Jordan couldn't will them to victory if he scored 40 points, or 63, the Bulls still lost. You say role player, and you throw a guy like Toni Kukoc out there?

Kukoc was nothing more than a role player for the Bulls. He started, yes. When Michael Jordan was out playing Baseball he had a spot in the starting line-up. After Jordan came back? Kukoc was moved to the bench. Third in scoring on the team (Behind Jordan/Pippen) but was nothing more than a sixth man, which he won an award for and I think currently is the only player to do so on a championship team.

You're right Kukoc was a solid member of the squad but come on? Great player? Great players start, and no one is saying "Jordan couldn't of done it without Toni". So take a seat on the bench, sorry Toni.

 

[Liquidrob]

I guess overrated is being a player that can play any position on the court 1-5. Solid and complete game, he can score inside, he can score outside. Need rebounds? Pippen did that too. The Bulls without Pippen would of went no where, Jordan couldn't will them to victory if he scored 40 points, or 63, the Bulls still lost. You say role player, and you throw a guy like Toni Kukoc out there?

Kukoc was nothing more than a role player for the Bulls. He started, yes. When Michael Jordan was out playing Baseball he had a spot in the starting line-up. After Jordan came back? Kukoc was moved to the bench. Third in scoring on the team (Behind Jordan/Pippen) but was nothing more than a sixth man, which he won an award for and I think currently is the only player to do so on a championship team.

You're right Kukoc was a solid member of the squad but come on? Great player? Great players start, and no one is saying "Jordan couldn't of done it without Toni". So take a seat on the bench, sorry Toni.

you need reading comprehension lessons

where did I say Toni Kukoc was great? Thats the point, Pippen finally got his shot to be the man, Jordan was gone, the Bulls are in the playoffs and he is sitting on the sidelines and Kukoc is taking the final shot

lol @ any 'great player' sitting on the sidelines all sad in that situation

Scottie Pippen was a great role-player, just like Dennis Rodman, Joe Dumars, James Worthy, etc...but they are not better than the guys that were the team

I love the Pippen can play 5 positions, yes, Pippen can play center, lol, sure, maybe for the 'Run TMC' Warriors, but thats not a real center position, so Pippen can now guard Ewing, Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, etc...just stop

To say the bulls without Pippen would have went no where is laughable, when Jordan was dropping 63 and losing to the Celtics it wasnt just because Pippen wasnt there, Horace Grant, Paxson, Bill Cartwright, later Rodnam and Kerr and others all helped get the Bulls to the top along with Pippen

Jordan was the man and everyone else helped

 

[Vinsane]

you need reading comprehension lessons

I'll get reading comprehension lessons, when you get grammar comprehension lessons. Fair enough?

where did I say Toni Kukoc was great? Thats the point, Pippen finally got his shot to be the man, Jordan was gone, the Bulls are in the playoffs and he is sitting on the sidelines and Kukoc is taking the final shot

And when Pipped "got his shot" to be the man in Portland, he leads them to the WCF.

lol @ any 'great player' sitting on the sidelines all sad in that situation

Scottie Pippen was a great role-player, just like Dennis Rodman, Joe Dumars, James Worthy, etc...but they are not better than the guys that were the team

Last I checked a "team" isn't one man. Unless your Kobe, and even then he hasn't won a ring.

I love the Pippen can play 5 positions, yes, Pippen can play center, lol, sure, maybe for the 'Run TMC' Warriors, but thats not a real center position, so Pippen can now guard Ewing, Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, etc...just stop

As lanky as Pippen is, and his defensive prowess what it was? Yeah Pip probably could of guarded any of the above IMO.

To say the bulls without Pippen would have went no where is laughable, when Jordan was dropping 63 and losing to the Celtics it wasnt just because Pippen wasnt there, Horace Grant, Paxson, Bill Cartwright, later Rodnam and Kerr and others all helped get the Bulls to the top along with Pippen

91 - Pippen guards Magic Johnson. Stellar defense changed the scope of the series for L.A. Pippen really defines the definition of "point forward". Leads the team during the regular season in assist, second in scoring, rebounding, and steals.

92 - Fourth quarter, game six of the Finals. Down 15, Pippen, not Jordan led the Bulls on a 14-2 run. Doing so, with the reserves. The Bulls went on to outscore the the Blazers 33-14, winning their second title.

97 - Game 6, Pippen intercepts the inbound pass, tosses it ahead to Toni Kukoc, game winning slam.

Jordan was the man and everyone else helped

Guess so.

 

[Liquidrob]

all that shit you posted didnt help your case, sorry

having pippen guard a center doesnt mean he can play 5 positions, doesnt work like that

when pippen came on, so did horace grant, bill, etc...pippen is not the reason the bulls won championships, it was because jordan and his supporting cast got better which pippen was 1 of, thats it

pippen wasnt the man in portland, same role as before, he wasnt the go to guy in portland

when your coach is giving game winning shots to kukoc over you, that says something

also, the 'point forward' is another joke, just because he brought the ball didnt make him a point forward, giving it to jordan after half court doesnt make you a point forward

john paxson and steve kerr hit bigger shots than pippen ever did, jordan wasnt going to pass it to pippen so he can throw up a bank shot

 

[Vinsane]

all that shit you posted didnt help your case, sorry

having pippen guard a center doesnt mean he can play 5 positions, doesnt work like that

when pippen came on, so did horace grant, bill, etc...pippen is not the reason the bulls won championships, it was because jordan and his supporting cast got better which pippen was 1 of, thats it

pippen wasnt the man in portland, same role as before, he wasnt the go to guy in portland

when your coach is giving game winning shots to kukoc over you, that says something

also, the 'point forward' is another joke, just because he brought the ball didnt make him a point forward, giving it to jordan after half court doesnt make you a point forward

john paxson and steve kerr hit bigger shots than pippen ever did, jordan wasnt going to pass it to pippen so he can throw up a bank shot

This is a list of Small Forwards, not the world versus Jordan. I guess it's easy to win a debate when your argument is Jordan > All.

Who was 'the man' in Portland? A fifth year player in Sheed? Steve Blake? Arvydas Sabonis? Stoudamire? Or your veteran leader, 13th year player Scottie Pippen?

 

[jags224]

LARRY BIRD FTMFW!, top five to ever play the game imo

 

[dell71]

Since it is my list, I obviously think I have Scottie in the right place. That said, he was not "the man" in Portland. I think part of the problem that led to the unraveling against LA in game 7 in '99-'00 was they really had no go to guy. 'Sheed was the best player but doesn't really have that makeup. Steve Smith & Scottie were on the downside. Yes, Pippen provided veteran leadership but averaged only 12.5 ppg and was below his career averages across the board.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

LOL @ saying Pippen was "the man" in Portland. Easy cop-out that I was thinking noone noticed, till Dell posted above me. Saying he was the man on a team that was just full of talent is pretty foolish.. especially considering he was on the tail end of his career. Brutal argument..

 

[Vinsane]

Since it is my list, I obviously think I have Scottie in the right place. That said, he was not "the man" in Portland. I think part of the problem that led to the unraveling against LA in game 7 in '99-'00 was they really had no go to guy. 'Sheed was the best player but doesn't really have that makeup. Steve Smith & Scottie were on the downside. Yes, Pippen provided veteran leadership but averaged only 12.5 ppg and was below his career averages across the board.

I argued earlier in the post that Scottie IMO deserved to be higher, you countered that argument so it's not a factor of where Scottie ended up on the list. Being below your career averages is acceptable in my book when you're playing in your 13th season at the time. Scottie imo was "the man" due to the reasons you listed, Steve Smith on the decline, wasn't a go to guy. Sheed, still considerably young by NBA standards was the best player on that team but not a leader, not a "star".

LOL @ saying Pippen was "the man" in Portland. Easy cop-out that I was thinking noone noticed, till Dell posted above me. Saying he was the man on a team that was just full of talent is pretty foolish.. especially considering he was on the tail end of his career. Brutal argument..

LOL @ jumping in an argument that you haven't put one iota into, other than to say LBJ deserved to be higher. :gtfo:

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Sorry, I tend to jump into arguments after highly idiotic statements are made. Makes it easier to make you look bad. Evidently.. you did that yourself by trying to cop out with that absolutely brutal reply to my post. Good job.

Scottie has never been the man... he never will be the man.. and when they tried to make Pippen the man when MJ retired, he failed, miserably. Pippen is overrated. Get over it. He'll always be a back-up dancer.

 

[Vinsane]

Sorry, I tend to jump into arguments after highly idiotic statements are made. Makes it easier to make you look bad. Evidently.. you did that yourself.

Scottie has never been the man... he never will be the man.. and when they tried to make Pippen the man when MJ retired, he failed, miserably. Pippen is overrated. Get over it. He'll always be a Hall of Famer.

Bold - Fixed.

 

[dell71]

I argued earlier in the post that Scottie IMO deserved to be higher, you countered that argument so it's not a factor of where Scottie ended up on the list. Being below your career averages is acceptable in my book when you're playing in your 13th season at the time. Scottie imo was "the man" due to the reasons you listed, Steve Smith on the decline, wasn't a go to guy. Sheed, still considerably young by NBA standards was the best player on that team but not a leader, not a "star".

Smith was on the decline but being in his 13th season, so was Scottie. Sheed wasn't the go to guy but it had nothing to do with him only being in his 5th season. He wasn't the go to guy because he's never had the makeup to be one. If you're going to be one, you usually show it well before the 5th season.

By the time, he got to Portland, Scottie was not nearly the player he once was so he wasn't the man on that team. They were rich in talent but had no one, Pippen included, who had both the mentality and ability to be "the man." Yes, he was there to provide veteran leadership but that went out the window when they didn't have anyone who could take the ball into their hands and stop the bleeding they were doing all over the court in that game 7 against LA.

 

[Liquidrob]

No way Pip should be a HOFer, 1 of the 50 greatest NBA players or even on the first dream team, what a joke

Pippen will always be Robin and never even made it to Nightwing level

 

[Deviant]

No way Pip should be a HOFer, 1 of the 50 greatest NBA players or even on the first dream team, what a joke

Pippen will always be Robin and never even made it to Nightwing level

That's the worst argument I've ever heard because then you're saying that Jordan shouldn't be a Hall of Famer because he also played with one of the fifty greatest NBA players in Scottie Pippen.

Now, I have a bit of a problem with Pippen being at #6, so let me make a case for him being higher:

He's one of only four players to lead his team in every major statistical category (and this was when Jordan left, so he can clearly be the man when Jordan isn't around). The other three are LeBron James (2009, MVP), Kevin Garnett (2002), and Dave Cowens (1977). Cowens is a Hall of Famer, Garnett and LeBron will be Hall of Famers. I believe that's pretty good company he's in. Pippen will get in/be eligible for HoF in 2010.

What Jordan was to the Bulls, Pippen also was to the Bulls. By far, the best defending small forward I've ever seen. He holds the NBA record for career assists and steals for forwards. The only person threatening to take that from him is probably going to be LeBron James. Pippen is one of only three players to block 100 shots and record 200 steals; the other being Michael Jordan and Hakeem Olajuwon. 10 NBA All-Defensive Honors, 7 NBA All-Team Honors (3 of them were 1st Team)... the guy was just a beast.

And to be fair, do you really think Jordan could do it alone? Really? When Jordan came into the league, he was a phenom, no doubt. But until Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen came into the picture, all he was doing was scoring 40-60 points in playoff games, but getting kicked out of the first round. In fact, Jordan threatened to stay retired if they didn't keep Pippen when they thought about trading him for Shawn Kemp. The man is one of the greatest to ever play, even with/without Jordan.

And the Kukoc thing was ONE play. Pippen sat out for ONE play. Don't make it seem as if Kukoc hit ever big shot while Pippen stormed to the bench. It was in the heat of the moment of ONE play.

 

[Liquidrob]

That's the worst argument I've ever heard because then you're saying that Jordan shouldn't be a Hall of Famer because he also played with one of the fifty greatest NBA players in Scottie Pippen.

Now, I have a bit of a problem with Pippen being at #6, so let me make a case for him being higher:

He's one of only four players to lead his team in every major statistical category (and this was when Jordan left, so he can clearly be the man when Jordan isn't around). The other three are LeBron James (2009, MVP), Kevin Garnett (2002), and Dave Cowens (1977). Cowens is a Hall of Famer, Garnett and LeBron will be Hall of Famers. I believe that's pretty good company he's in. Pippen will get in/be eligible for HoF in 2010.

What Jordan was to the Bulls, Pippen also was to the Bulls. By far, the best defending small forward I've ever seen. He holds the NBA record for career assists and steals. The only person threatening to take that from him is probably going to be LeBron James. Pippen is one of only three players to block 100 shots and record 200 steals; the other being Michael Jordan and Hakeem Olajuwon. 10 NBA All-Defensive Honors, 7 NBA All-Team Honors (3 of them were 1st Team)... the guy was just a beast.

And to be fair, do you really think Jordan could do it alone? Really? When Jordan came into the league, he was a phenom, no doubt. But until Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen came into the picture, all he was doing was scoring 40-60 points in playoff games, but getting kicked out of the first round. In fact, Jordan threatened to stay retired if they didn't keep Pippen when they thought about trading him for Shawn Kemp. The man is one of the greatest to ever play, even with/without Jordan.

And the Kukoc thing was ONE play. Pippen sat out for ONE play. Don't make it seem as if Kukoc hit ever big shot while Pippen stormed to the bench. It was in the heat of the moment of ONE play.

no, I dont say any of that, I said pippen is overrated, not a HOFer, not 1 of the 50 greatest players and shouldnt have made the dream team

plus I already said Jordan needed his team, but not just Pippen, it was also Grant, Cartwright, Paxson, Kerr, Rodman, etc...all these guys were a great supporting cast, Pippen was just another piece, but not an all time great

Pippen was a great role-player like Dumars, Worthy, etc...and he choked and sat on the bench for 1 of the biggest plays for his team in the year it was his team

I don’t think I can name another team sport player in history who got more success of another mans success than Scottie Pippen

 

[ralaw]

As usual when it comes to Pippen arguments people are either on one side or the other. You have the guys who say he’s among the greatest ever and you have those who say he’s the most overrated. People who always bring up the “what did he do without Jordan” obviously have no idea what they are talking about. Yes, the Kukoc incident happened, but it shouldn’t be used to define the entire season. During the 1993-94 season the Bulls without Jordan finished with 55 wns and Pippen had one of the better seasons this league has seen. If it wasn’t for a bogus call by Hugh Hollins against the Knicks the Bulls would have went on to the Conference Finals. Pippen during the 1993-94 season was arguably the best player in the league.

It’s funny though, because Pippen often is criticized for not “carrying” the Jordanless Bulls past the conference semis….yet in the same sentence people claim Jordan was the greatest player off all-time. The triangle offense was pretty much made for a player with Jordan’s talents and the entire identity of the team was tied in with Jordan and the team still won 55 games without him. They lost to the Knicks in a 7 game series without Jordan – the greatest player ever. Pippen certainly was a role player on those great Bulls teams, but his contribution shouldn't be compared with the likes of Cartwright, Grant, Armstong, etc. Pippen's presence allowed Jordan to be Jordan, as Pippen routinely guarded the best perimeter player among a host of other contributions. IMO due to the ease at which he played the game people tend to overlook what Pippen brought to the table for those Bulls teams.

 

[FirstTimer]

where did I say Toni Kukoc was great? Thats the point, Pippen finally got his shot to be the man, Jordan was gone, the Bulls are in the playoffs and he is sitting on the sidelines and Kukoc is taking the final shot

Your memory is off. Pippen didn't sit just to sit. He sat because Phil decided to give the final shot to Kukoc and NOT Pippen. Yeah Pippen acted like a punk but it was understood Pippen was the man on that team and Phil drew up the play for Kukoc to start with. You're misrepresenting what happened with your wording.

Sorry, I tend to jump into arguments after highly idiotic statements are made. Makes it easier to make you look bad. Evidently.. you did that yourself by trying to cop out with that absolutely brutal reply to my post. Good job.

Scottie has never been the man... he never will be the man.. and when they tried to make Pippen the man when MJ retired, he failed, miserably. Pippen is overrated. Get over it. He'll always be a back-up dancer.

Pippen didn't "fail miserably" at being "the man". Pippen had one, if not his best season, that year in 93-94. He lead the Bulls in Scoring, assists, and the entire NBA in steals. He put up 22ppg, 8.7 rpg, 5.6apg and 2.9spg. He shot 49%. That Bulls team had 55 wins. The year before with Jordan, the Bulls won 57. Pippen had established himself that season has one of the top 5 players in the NBA. The next season in 1994-95 he lead the team in: Scoring, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks. He's one of only FOUR players in NBA history to accomplish that. He showed he could be a great player on his own. yeah he wasn't MJ, but no one was.

If Pippen a Top 50 player all time? Maybe. Maybe not. IMO he is but oh well. The fact that he's even in the convo though makes a good point about how good he was. Is he a HOF'er? Hell yes without a doubt. He's is perhaps one of the best perimeter defenders ever in the NBA. Leads NBA fowards all time in assists and was a very very good scorer. He is one of the best all around players in NBA history.