[DIVISIONAL]: Denver Broncos @ New England Patriots

[NAHSTE]

Lets see...I'll jump in on the guys who have done well their second year in the league
Peyton Manning
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco (although he was a bit overrated imo)
Carson Palmer
Roethliswhatsit
Andy Dalton (granted its only been a year)
Cam Newton (^this)
Drew Brees
Eli Manning
Donovan McNabb

These guys all say hi

No all of those guys are just the exception, not the rule.

 

[Aso]

The rule is completing 40% of your passes? Dude is completing less than Gabbert. If I have a pocket QB who is passing like Tebow in his second year I am abandoning that project.

 

[Bear Pand]

sigh.

Tim Tebow runs for 6 yards on a designed keeper on first down.

Drew Brees throws a pass in the flat to Sproles on first down.

It's 2nd and 4 for both teams.

Completion% means next to nothing in Denver's scheme. Denver won games where Tebow completed 30%, and lost games where he completed 50%-60%.

There were games where Tebow ran the ball 20 times. Many of those runs simply replaced passes and achieved the same objective.

I can't take the completion percentage angle seriously. I just can't. Some of the other mouth breathers on this site I can ignore, but I know you are smarter than this. Everybody knows he struggles to pass the ball consistently, why do you think they are running this scheme to begin with??

The point is this. Whether it's through teams gameplanning or flat out overplaying the run, or his team having to trade scores with a good offense... Tebow is going to have to pass at some point. And that's when his inaccuracy and inability to do so at an NFL level is going to hurt his team. You can only hide his lack of ability for so long.

Look aroung the league. The good teams either have offenses that will outscore them and/or defenses good enough to shut down that offense. How are they gonna consistently hang with teams like GB/NO/NE. Or move the ball on defenses like BAL/HOU/Pitt/SF. And I'm not talking about doing it once, but doing it consistently. That's what they're gonna have to do if they want to win anything meaningful and in order to do it he's gonna have to learn how to throw.

That try to control the ball and pray it's close in the 4th shit might work when you're playing the Haine-Bears or the Dolphins. But even then you're walking a fine line, teams are already starting to catch on. KC and Buffalo shut him down in the air and on the ground in back to back weeks to end the season.

7-2 against teams without winning records. 1-3 against teams with winning records though.

You can't just disregard that dude can't throw. I know the Broncos won't and will desperately try to help Tebow improve all throughout the offseason. And if he doesn't he won't be a starter in this league for long. If he can even get to the point where he's a mediocre passer it'd be a big help.

 

[Aso]

W2BTD reply: "You just don't get it, everything you just said is irrelevant."

/thread


Tebow will never win a Superbowl because he can't pass and I think of this season like Josh Freeman's 2010. Tim Tebow will never repeat the success he had this year.

 

[Houston]

Tebow proved he can not only get into the playoffs, but can win a game in it. I think most fans will be able to live with him not winning a Superbowl, lol.

 

[Aso]

Well that's the entire point of playing.

Michael Vick coming into the league, was uncharted territory as wel, and he couldn't win one either. He got to the NFC Championship and his inability to throw the ball was his downfall.

FWIW, I don't think the Broncos beat the Steelers if Ryan Clark is playing.

 

[BigBucs]

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

The point is this. Whether it's through teams gameplanning or flat out overplaying the run, or his team having to trade scores with a good offense... Tebow is going to have to pass at some point. And that's when his inaccuracy and inability to do so at an NFL level is going to hurt his team. You can only hide his lack of ability for so long.

Look aroung the league. The good teams either have offenses that will outscore them and/or defenses good enough to shut down that offense. How are they gonna consistently hang with teams like GB/NO/NE. Or move the ball on defenses like BAL/HOU/Pitt/SF. And I'm not talking about doing it once, but doing it consistently. That's what they're gonna have to do if they want to win anything meaningful and in order to do it he's gonna have to learn how to throw.

That try to control the ball and pray it's close in the 4th shit might work when you're playing the Haine-Bears or the Dolphins. But even then you're walking a fine line, teams are already starting to catch on. KC and Buffalo shut him down in the air and on the ground in back to back weeks to end the season.

7-2 against teams without winning records. 1-3 against teams with winning records though.

You can't just disregard that dude can't throw. I know the Broncos won't and will desperately try to help Tebow improve all throughout the offseason. And if he doesn't he won't be a starter in this league for long. If he can even get to the point where he's a mediocre passer it'd be a big help.

I don't even disagree with any of this, so i'm not even sure what we're arguing about anymore. I have no idea if this can work long term, and i've already said a million times I lean towards 'no'.

My main gripe is the 'lolTebow he sucks' crowd disregarding his massive impact on that team going from straight garbage to divisional round. THIS year. Next year is next year. He played well, regardless of stuff like completion percentage, but i'm not going down that road again, because we get each other and at this point and nobody is swaying the other, so we will leave it at that.

But concerning the bold, that right there is a stat that means nothing to me. If you look across the league, i'd be willing to be that most if not all teams had a better record versus teams without winning records. You can't control the schedule and you just have to beat who you play. Plus, winning a playoff game throws that stuff right out the window. The '99 Rams were 13-1 vs losing teams and 0-2 versus teams with a winning record. Nobody cares or remembers now because they won in the playoffs.

 

[ram29jackson]

Lets see...I'll jump in on the guys who have done well their second year in the league
Peyton Manning
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco (although he was a bit overrated imo)
Carson Palmer
Roethliswhatsit
Andy Dalton (granted its only been a year)
Cam Newton (^this)
Drew Brees
Eli Manning
Donovan McNabb

These guys all say hi

this is so childish and simplistic on your part..the amount of names here are a drop in the bucket of a 20 year span..and what the hell is Cams name in there for? he completed passes that served no ultimate purpose as of yet for a team that did nothing significant..he didnt do well, he just threw alot of balls, big deal

 

[FirstTimer]

a guy 2 years in isnt going to be a great passer

I don't recall anyone demanding him to be a "great passer". Completing more than 50% of his passes would be a good start

 

[NAHSTE]

Well that's the entire point of playing.

Michael Vick coming into the league, was uncharted territory as wel, and he couldn't win one either. He got to the NFC Championship and his inability to throw the ball was his downfall.

FWIW, I don't think the Broncos beat the Steelers if Ryan Clark is playing.

Wait when did this happen? I was led to believe Tebow was doing things no running QB had ever done before.

 

[trojan49er]

this is so childish and simplistic on your part..the amount of names here are a drop in the bucket of a 20 year span..and what the hell is Cams name in there for? he completed passes that served no ultimate purpose as of yet for a team that did nothing significant..he didnt do well, he just threw alot of balls, big deal

A 20 year span? hardly, the oldest one here is manning, playing his second season in 99...12 years ago.. these are all qbs that were legitimately better passers than tebow in or before their second season in the nfl. not to mention they make up 9 of the starting QBs in the NFL right now and that list is one off the top of my head.

As for why is cams name here, as much as I dont like the guy, he completed 60% of his passes this year for over 4,000 yards while rushing for 700-ish yards. Ya, he threw a lot of passes, and ya, Carolina didnt win shit, but Newton is still a better passer. More yards, higher completion percentage, higher passer rating (i know, its a garbage stat, but its a minor piece of evidence at this point). If nothing else, he's on there to show that being an athletic QB doesn't preclude you from being able to complete a damn pass. Wins are a team stat, not a QB stat and simply put, the Broncos have a better supporting cast than the Panthers. That said, I'd take Newton over Tebow despite the fact I cant stand Newton, I'd rather have a QB that can complete a pass.

Shit, Mike Vick completed 55% of his passes his second year in the league for nearly 3000 yards, a 2:1 TD:Int ratio, and a higher passer rating than Tebow had this year.

Oh and I can add Tom Brady to the list as well, a starter in 14 games his second season. Nearly 3,000 yards, higher completion %, higher rating, blah, blah, blah.

Broncos pariah Jay Cutler can go on the list too, nearly 3,500 yards, higher completion %, higher rating, etc, etc.

Hell, Trent Edwards had a better second season by just about every measurable stat. Byron Leftwich too, for that matter. And theyre both absolute garbage.

 

[FirstTimer]

Don't forget Rick Mirer :smug:

 

[Champ]

The NFC is going to win the superbowl

 

[ram29jackson]

A 20 year span? hardly, the oldest one here is manning, playing his second season in 99...12 years ago.. these are all qbs that were legitimately better passers than tebow in or before their second season in the nfl. not to mention they make up 9 of the starting QBs in the NFL right now and that list is one off the top of my head.

As for why is cams name here, as much as I dont like the guy, he completed 60% of his passes this year for over 4,000 yards while rushing for 700-ish yards. Ya, he threw a lot of passes, and ya, Carolina didnt win shit, but Newton is still a better passer. More yards, higher completion percentage, higher passer rating (i know, its a garbage stat, but its a minor piece of evidence at this point). If nothing else, he's on there to show that being an athletic QB doesn't preclude you from being able to complete a damn pass. Wins are a team stat, not a QB stat and simply put, the Broncos have a better supporting cast than the Panthers. That said, I'd take Newton over Tebow despite the fact I cant stand Newton, I'd rather have a QB that can complete a pass.

Shit, Mike Vick completed 55% of his passes his second year in the league for nearly 3000 yards, a 2:1 TD:Int ratio, and a higher passer rating than Tebow had this year.

Oh and I can add Tom Brady to the list as well, a starter in 14 games his second season. Nearly 3,000 yards, higher completion %, higher rating, blah, blah, blah.

Broncos pariah Jay Cutler can go on the list too, nearly 3,500 yards, higher completion %, higher rating, etc, etc.

Hell, Trent Edwards had a better second season by just about every measurable stat. Byron Leftwich too, for that matter. And theyre both absolute garbage.

ok fine, but yet and still, that is a small number. It simply is not the norm to come into the league and do well or to succeed multiple years later if you come looking good initially.

 

[Tailback U]

You can spin the facts however you want to. The guy has only started 16 games. He didn't have an offseason. He is a winner. He made the playoffs. Blah blah blah.

He can't pass. His completion percentage sucks. His mechanics are terrible. His progressions are terrible. Blah blah blah.

If you can't see that this guy has some serious issues as a QB that he hasn't been able to fix in 20 years and probably won't ever then you are blinded by your love for the player.

I honestly hope Denver keeps Tebow around for a long time because he is going to be a project. Maybe one day they'll build a team like the Niners have around Alex Smith and hopefully Tebow will have learned how to throw a spiral by then.

 

[BroncoBlue]

Lol. You guys are hilarious, I wanted to read the last 3 pages but then I realized you guys were talking about Tebow... 2013 will be a story told on the Defesive side of the ball... And Landry Jones doing work!

 

[FirstTimer]

ok fine, but yet and still, that is a small number. It simply is not the norm to come into the league and do well or to succeed multiple years later if you come looking good initially.

Actually it's not.

That's the point.

 

[Hasselbeck]

The Tebow "7-2 record as a starter!" thing cracks me up..

Break down his starts.. 5 of those wins were more the result of the opposing team completely blowing the game than Tim Tebow winning it. I know at the end of the day, that's not what appears in the win column.. but that's the truth.

It took an onside kick to beat Miami.

It took the Bears, particularly Marion Barber, shitting themselves to beat Chicago.

It took Christian Ponder being Christian Ponder to beat the Vikings.

It took the Raiders melting down in the 3rd quarter by surrendering a McGahee 60 yard run and an Eddie Royal 85 yard punt return to beat Oakland.

It took a missed FG in OT to beat the Chargers.

I mean - yes - ultimately Tim Tebow has to make the plays and take advantage of the other teams mistakes to win the game. But Denver could have easily been a 3 or 4 win team here.

 

[GoChargers]

Broncos will be exposed next year if Tebow doesn't have a good off season.

Not saying he can't improve, but if he doesn't Broncos will be a 5 or 6 win team.