EA Sports to give up exclusive rights to NCAA Football Games

[Sven Draconian]

The nice thing about 2k8 was I played it enough to essentially break the game. It got to the point where I the game stopped being fun because, much like a single player shooter, you just learn too much about how the AI plays to not beat it (and, 2k8 was a cheese fest online... still played a ton, but not my thing).

The only real issues I had with the game were:
-Generic WRs can't catch. Make them slow, make them poor route runners, but they are still WRs. The amount of wide-open drops was ridiculous. It really forced to to load up on star WRs.

-Gold HBs were over-powered (like all 2k RBs)

-No way to really defend Gold WRs. Even star DBs couldn't stop Gold WRs....

And then the cheese routes (Quick outs, posts).

 

[ThunderHorse]

There were things you could do to fight those posts and slants but it was tough. The hot routed corner route was cheese at it's finest because you legitimately could not defend the route unless you user'd the corner. However they did allow you to shade to the inside/outside, which is something Madden had earlier on in their series but I don't think I've seen in this generation of consoles. That Shading type of feature helped defend against those out routes especially. However if you've got a CB with some talent you could jump a lot of those passes.

The Generic players usually were garbage, but that's how it's supposed to be. They'd make catches, they'd drop balls too. They aren't great players, not even average, so it's kind of expected. if you want more sure handed guys you fill those WR spots with bronze players.

I mean, in my opinion that's what made the game special and different, if you put your talent into WR it was legitimately different than if you didn't. 3 Bronze Receivers may not be great but they're legitimately better than using the scrubs.

Gold HB's were powerful, but they're HOF RB's. The only ones that were really tough to deal with, borderline cheese, were Campbell and Simpson. I found that the drop in ability and talent from Gold to Silver HB wise is one of the biggest in the game.

 

[Rip]

Continuing that point: These flaws can all be fixed in an NFL game where there's certain players with certain tendencies instead of generic players. Look at the way 2k5 did it and make it modern. 2k8 was just a twist to the series. A modern 2k5 would be brilliant.

All of those exploits can and would be fixed too in a modern game and 2k would jump on it so they could compete with EA.

 

[Sven Draconian]

There were things you could do to fight those posts and slants but it was tough. The hot routed corner route was cheese at it's finest because you legitimately could not defend the route unless you user'd the corner. However they did allow you to shade to the inside/outside, which is something Madden had earlier on in their series but I don't think I've seen in this generation of consoles. That Shading type of feature helped defend against those out routes especially. However if you've got a CB with some talent you could jump a lot of those passes.

The Generic players usually were garbage, but that's how it's supposed to be. They'd make catches, they'd drop balls too. They aren't great players, not even average, so it's kind of expected. if you want more sure handed guys you fill those WR spots with bronze players.

I mean, in my opinion that's what made the game special and different, if you put your talent into WR it was legitimately different than if you didn't. 3 Bronze Receivers may not be great but they're legitimately better than using the scrubs.

Gold HB's were powerful, but they're HOF RB's. The only ones that were really tough to deal with, borderline cheese, were Campbell and Simpson. I found that the drop in ability and talent from Gold to Silver HB wise is one of the biggest in the game.

But that doesn't make the game unique, because it forced you to create a certain type of team if you wanted to be successful. You (more or less) had to spend 4 of your stars on skill guys (RB and atleast 3 TE/WR) otherwise you couldn't consistently move the ball. Defensively, that forces you to put atleast 3 star players in the secondary otherwise you just get toasted all game.

So right off the top 7 of your choices are more or less locked in place. So for your last 4 you can either go QB, LB or DL (or even get a 4th receiver/2nd RB).

The game was supposed to be "professional" football. The generics should have basic skills (like the ability to catch a curl route, the ability throw more than 30 yards).

Along with that, the Gold defensive players (mainly DB/LB) were way, way, way underpowered compared to their offensive equivalents (WR/RB), mostly because the they got locked into the same long animations and AI shortcomings as the generic players. Gold CBs could not cover Rice/Biletnikoff ect..., Gold Safeties (Lott, Woodson) still got caught in long animations that forced them to misplay balls in the air.

Generally, the idea team was something like
Gold WR (Rice...)
Gold RB (Sayers, Simpson, Campbell)

3 silver defensive players (maybe Cunningham at QB)

Bronze TE, WR

the rest defense

I applaud the game for keeping me playing long enough to remember that 4 (5?) years after it came out, but it had some major balance issues.

 

[BigBucs]

As good as it may have been I just couldnt get over the aesthetics and generic teams/players. If the player models looked better and they had smoother running animations I may have brought it but then again fake teams isnt appealing to me.

 

[ThunderHorse]

But that doesn't make the game unique, because it forced you to create a certain type of team if you wanted to be successful. You (more or less) had to spend 4 of your stars on skill guys (RB and atleast 3 TE/WR) otherwise you couldn't consistently move the ball. Defensively, that forces you to put atleast 3 star players in the secondary otherwise you just get toasted all game.

So right off the top 7 of your choices are more or less locked in place. So for your last 4 you can either go QB, LB or DL (or even get a 4th receiver/2nd RB).

The game was supposed to be "professional" football. The generics should have basic skills (like the ability to catch a curl route, the ability throw more than 30 yards).

Along with that, the Gold defensive players (mainly DB/LB) were way, way, way underpowered compared to their offensive equivalents (WR/RB), mostly because the they got locked into the same long animations and AI shortcomings as the generic players. Gold CBs could not cover Rice/Biletnikoff ect..., Gold Safeties (Lott, Woodson) still got caught in long animations that forced them to misplay balls in the air.

Generally, the idea team was something like
Gold WR (Rice...)
Gold RB (Sayers, Simpson, Campbell)

3 silver defensive players (maybe Cunningham at QB)

Bronze TE, WR

the rest defense

I applaud the game for keeping me playing long enough to remember that 4 (5?) years after it came out, but it had some major balance issues.

Can't argue with the above. Because it's true, but this is usually what you get from Lobby games.

Like Madden 2K used to and in some places still has a small community that will "police" themselves (much like we do with our leagues such as Atlas' OD's or some of the Madden leagues). But it was a problem and eventually you did start playing the same game over and over again. it's almost like how everyone in the world always uses the best team in Madden whenever you play a quick ranked game. you can see in my video that one of the teams has nothing but gold and silver players in the defensive backfield. and this is because everyone I played had a gold QB and a couple of Silver WR's, it got to the point, just like you said, I HAD to make my team like that. it doesn't help that because the game has been out for so long without update that every gimick, glitch, and imperfection has been found, perfected, and abused by the few that are left in the small 2K online community.

 

[ThunderHorse]

As good as it may have been I just couldnt get over the aesthetics and generic teams/players. If the player models looked better and they had smoother running animations I may have brought it but then again fake teams isnt appealing to me.

I think this goes deeper.

I felt like this when the game first came out, I stopped playing it eventually, the only thing that stopped me from taking it back to gamestop and trading it in was the fact that VERY QUICKLY the amount of $ they were offering dropped significantly. I mean they were selling it for $5 out of gamestop used and I don't believe the game had been out a year.

In time though, usually in the spring and start of summer, I always get tired of Madden, I always get tired of NCAA, and I end up giving the 2K games (both of them) some playing time. It's a nice change of pace.

I digress though, I think this goes deeper because I know that I absolutely love the sport. I mean, I really love football, and I just want to play a good football video game. Now when the season starts, I'm probably going to want to play Madden more because that's what I'm seeing on Television, that's what I care about, in the offseason when there's no football it's easier to pick up the 2K games. on the flipside, with all the mods out there you can get NFL teams in 2K8, it's tricky but you can make it work.

I just get annoyed with the fact that 2K had some great things going, some really realistic and cool features, and Madden didn't even try to piggy back off of some of that stuff. 2K had some LEGIT stuff and Madden hasn't even tried to copy or one-up any of it. I've said it before but their "Juke" mechanic is a fucking joke. The hitstick has turned into a fucking joke. the passing game is supposed to be better but now we have to wait to see if they're just going to nuke user defense like they did with NCAA 13.

 

[Argath]

I'm pretty sure one of the reasons EA never used ideas from the 2k games is because they're copyrighted and didn't want to risk a lawsuit.. Same reason why a lot of good features from madden are not in 2k games

 

[ThunderHorse]

I'm pretty sure one of the reasons EA never used ideas from the 2k games is because they're copyrighted and didn't want to risk a lawsuit.. Same reason why a lot of good features from madden are not in 2k games

Obviously you can't outright TAKE a feature.

but 2K put in the "big hit", which is the same thing. Madden could have done some things with disguising defenses, formation shifts (used to have them btw), ball carrier moves, etc. they just haven't.

It bothers me that 2K had such an innovative interface with ball carrier controls in 2008 and EA still can't really compare.

 

[Sven Draconian]

I'm pretty sure one of the reasons EA never used ideas from the 2k games is because they're copyrighted and didn't want to risk a lawsuit.. Same reason why a lot of good features from madden are not in 2k games

"Weapons" were a pretty obvious copy of "skills" from 2k8, they just were not done as well.

To me, Madden has always been about user-skills first and foremost. Give the user as much control as possible, let him trigger any move with anybody he wants and sprinkle in some ratings and team names to keep people happy. There has never been enough of a ratings spread and other than Spectacular Catch, the ratings never really unlock an ability. Speed (and eventually acceleration/agility play a part) are the only really noticeable difference.

2k put the focus on the players on the field. This took control away from the user. Top flight players (be it in 2k8 or 2k5) have more moves and different animations than ordinary players. This was maybe a bit over-emphasized at times (Ricky Williams/Earl Campbell being the Juggernaut springs to mind), but there were clear and well defined differences between teams and players.

This has always been the crux of the debate. Guys who are really good at Madden love their user control and ability to "play" the game. Cool beans. Guys who loved 2k loved the variety in players and games. Cool beans. Madden has slowly been moving towards adding that variety in players, but they seem apprehensive to take away user-control.

 

[Senser81]

But Really, Abilities completely make the difference in players in this game, Dick "Night Train" Lane plays differently than Rod Woodson even though they're both gold cornerbacks. Lane is going to be a force in the run game, He's going to get off of blocks, he's going to bust heads, he's still going to make plays on the ball but he can't cover like Rod Woodson, he can't read O's like Woodson, and he doesn't have the return ability of Woodson. On the flipside, Woodson isn't usually going to knock someone out but with Lane you better keep your head on a swivel.

This is one of my biggest complaints with the NCAA series from EA. The abilities of the players aren't diverse enough. Its like you have 2 types of players at each position..."good" or "bad". A "good" 5-10 WR will catch every deep ball and make great blocks on running plays, while the "bad" 6-5 WR will drop everything and be stuck in mud on running plays. LBs are the same way. They can either outrun every offensive player and intercept passes with their backs to the QB, or they are magnetized into blocks and have passes "phase" through them for TDs. So, in the end, you have two types of teams..."good" or "bad".

 

[Playmakers]

This is one of my biggest complaints with the NCAA series from EA. The abilities of the players aren't diverse enough. Its like you have 2 types of players at each position..."good" or "bad". A "good" 5-10 WR will catch every deep ball and make great blocks on running plays, while the "bad" 6-5 WR will drop everything and be stuck in mud on running plays. LBs are the same way. They can either outrun every offensive player and intercept passes with their backs to the QB, or they are magnetized into blocks and have passes "phase" through them for TDs. So, in the end, you have two types of teams..."good" or "bad".

The only way you will really see any player difference position by position in this game is to manually edit the players ratings and tendencies. It sucks because that requires a ton of editing and hours but it will lead to better player seperation and tendencies on the field.

I'm working on a massive 1990's roster file myself and i can clearly tell the difference between my created Tommie Frazier (Neb) at QB vs Brian Griese (Mich) for example...or Charles Woodson (Mich) at CB as opposed to Eric Warfield (Neb) on the field.

The problem is EA refuses to use the entire 0-100 scale on players on players and therefor player seperation and tendencies are very minimum doing gameplay. There's nothing wrong with actually giving a weak arm QB a throw power of 40 rating. You'd be amazed how much more difficult it is to play with him if you start trying to force passes deep down the field or even better give a small speed back 40 trucking ability and 40 strength and he'll go down on contact in much realistic manner but his speed ratings will clearly make him feel and play like he's faster than most other players on the field.

Some of this can be found in Madden right out of the box but in NCAA Football I think the player seperation ratings on the field is JOKE.

 

[Senser81]

The only way you will really see any player difference position by position in this game is to manually edit the players ratings and tendencies. It sucks because that requires a ton of editing and hours but it will lead to better player seperation and tendencies on the field.

I'm working on a massive 1990's roster file myself and i can clearly tell the difference between my created Tommie Frazier (Neb) at QB vs Brian Griese (Mich) for example...or Charles Woodson (Mich) at CB as opposed to Eric Warfield (Neb) on the field.

The problem is EA refuses to use the entire 0-100 scale on players on players and therefor player seperation and tendencies are very minimum doing gameplay. There's nothing wrong with actually giving a weak arm QB a throw power of 40 rating. You'd be amazed how much more difficult it is to play with him if you start trying to force passes deep down the field or even better give a small speed back 40 trucking ability and 40 strength and he'll go down on contact in much realistic manner but his speed ratings will clearly make him feel and play like he's faster than most other players on the field.

Some of this can be found in Madden right out of the box but in NCAA Football I think the player seperation ratings on the field is JOKE.

Yeah, I used to edit some of the player ratings myself, but it was too time-consuming. I remember a few years back EA basically admitted that the player ratings were useless, because they added the "Impact player" component to the game. Instead of just having the player ratings work so that individual greatness would stand out, EA made a phony "Impact player" who could cause fumbles (or facemasks) with every tackle, run through an entire defense, or have passes defy laws of physics so they end up as receptions.