Good Draft or Bad Draft: 2000 Oakland Raiders

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

R1 - Sebastian Janikowski, K, Florida State
R2 - Jerry Porter, WR, West Virginia
R4 - Junior Ioane, DT, Arizona State
R5 - Shane Lechler, P, Texas A&M
R7 - Mondriel Fulcher, FB, Miami
R7 - Clifton Black, DB, SW Texas State

I assume most people will say "Bad Draft"...but I'm curious.

This draft was panned when the Raiders made two high picks of kickers...

Those kickers will end up, statistically, the best, if not one of the Top 3 All-Time at their positions. I think most teams, if they grabbed two GOAT worthy players in ONE draft, it'd be considered one of the GOAT drafts...but, in this case, its a kicker and a punter.

What say you, VSN?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Could have gotten similar production from low draft picks or undrafted FA's, so this can't be considered a good draft.

If the two specialists were supplemented by a couple of other good players, I could be swayed kicking & screaming into saying it all worked out. But as it stands, no.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Jerry Porter was serviceable.

295 career receptions, 4120 yards, 31 touchdowns. Also had a good playoff run when they went to the Super Bowl. Not a bum.

 

[Fappin Raptor]

What was the reason for taking a kicker in the first?

 

[Atlas]

^also he went to WVU, so def not a bum...

:dd:

In all seriousness, it's not terrible, but it's not great either, and I agree with Warner about tackling those issues in FA...

 

[Saluki]

How many wins did their two best picks in this class really account for in the past 13 years? No matter how you slice it a kicker and punter are just a kicker and punter, no draft with those two positions taken so high can be called a good draft unless you got another hall of fame player somewhere

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[Aso]

Jerry Porter at times was great. I remember in '04 in the snow game when he was killing Champ Bailey in single coverage.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

How many wins did their two best picks in this class really account for in the past 13 years? No matter how you slice it a kicker and punter are just a kicker and punter, no draft with those two positions taken so high can be called a good draft unless you got another hall of fame player somewhere

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They did go to the Super Bowl in 2002. Porter was a big reason why. Lechler and SeaBass where very good, too.

And, to the point of "they could have gotten similar production with players drafted later or UDFA's...these guys ended up being two of the greats at K and P.

 

[EmpireWF]

Yes, they're STers but any draft where you can get guys who end up being starters for a decade is at worst a solid class.

 

[Saluki]

They did go to the Super Bowl in 2002. Porter was a big reason why. Lechler and SeaBass where very good, too.

And, to the point of "they could have gotten similar production with players drafted later or UDFA's...these guys ended up being two of the greats at K and P.

The super bowl in 02 and then nothing for the next ten years. A first round pick should be a major building block for your team if that's to be counted as a successful pick, nobody counts the kicker as a building block.

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[JeremyHight]

Neil Rackers was picked in the 6th round and Shayne Graham was an UDFA that year. Was Sebastian Janikowski really that much better than them to the point of taking him in the first round?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Jerry Porter was serviceable.

295 career receptions, 4120 yards, 31 touchdowns. Also had a good playoff run when they went to the Super Bowl. Not a bum.

Porter was ok for a couple of years, but the bottom line is if he's the best player aside from the K & P, I can't call this a good draft. You can sell me on mediocre.

 

[Aso]

Mediocre draft probably is a better way to describe it. I said good because I didn't want to call it a bad one.

 

[Hitman]

Considering how bad that year was for drafted players overall, I'd say the Raiders made out pretty good..

 

[Argath]

I think a lot of people are underestimating the importance of a good kicker. Where would New England be without the help of Vinateri?


With that said they did take 2 special teamers before Tom Brady was drafted :shifty:

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

The draft itself was good. You'd relieve alot of stress and game day decision making and get yourself out of alot of tough spots by solidifying K/P with such elite consistent guys for so many years . Throw in a good WR and yes it's a good draft.
However without detailing whom they could have had its hard to put into perspective.
They made a SB run after it so it contributed. You'd have to make a case it was detrimental to them in some way.

Bottom line K/P are certainly a dime a dozen. Serviceable is always out there. But top level AND consistency for long periods of time is rare and valuable to a coach no matter what you think of the position.

 

[Golden Taters]

The draft itself was good. You'd relieve alot of stress and game day decision making and get yourself out of alot of tough spots by solidifying K/P with such elite consistent guys for so many years . Throw in a good WR and yes it's a good draft.
However without detailing whom they could have had its hard to put into perspective.
They made a SB run after it so it contributed. You'd have to make a case it was detrimental to them in some way.

Bottom line K/P are certainly a dime a dozen. Serviceable is always out there. But top level AND consistency for long periods of time is rare and valuable to a coach no matter what you think of the position.

I have the same feelings as you do, they solidified their special teams for over a decade in this draft with an elite kicker and punter.

 

[Argath]

The draft itself was good. You'd relieve alot of stress and game day decision making and get yourself out of alot of tough spots by solidifying K/P with such elite consistent guys for so many years . Throw in a good WR and yes it's a good draft.
However without detailing whom they could have had its hard to put into perspective.
They made a SB run after it so it contributed. You'd have to make a case it was detrimental to them in some way.

Bottom line K/P are certainly a dime a dozen. Serviceable is always out there. But top level AND consistency for long periods of time is rare and valuable to a coach no matter what you think of the position.

Any redskins fan will tell you serviceable kickers are not always out there

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

To put this into perspective...the big needs for the Raoders were pass rush and receiver. IIRC Mock Drafts had the Raiders taking a bunch of different players. Jerry Porter (who they ended up w in R2 anyway), Santana Moss, Sylvester Morris, and Dez White. Darren Howard, Keith Bullock, and Deon Geant were also mocked there.

In real life...Chad Pennington and Shaun Alexander were the next two picks.

Pennington was expected to go earlier...Pittsburgh or San Fran...Alexander to the Chiefs.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I will counter that some of you are overrating Janikowski.

He's been an ok kicker. Not great. Some years, he wasn't very good at all. He's never finished among the leaders in FG%, but has finished near the bottom at times. He made one Pro Bowl. Never an All Pro.

He's been around a long time and does a serviceable job. He's made some really long kicks and is a weapon from anywhere across the 50. But if i'm taking a kicker in round one, I need more than that. I need a dominant performer, and Janikowski has not ever been that.

Lechler is one of the greatest punters of all time. Janikowski isn't even close to being an all time great kicker and guys like him have gone undrafted countless times.