I feel bad for Brock

[Steel Mamba]

thats not even his point

Brock's fighting has little to do with pro wrestling, he was a NCAA champ, just like all the other who suceeded in college before him, brock doesnt represent pro wrestling at all

the pro wrestling fans seemed to use him to validate pro wrestling which is strange in itself

def it was pretty ridiculous and all the talk about Brock being the #1 over Fedor when he first won the title was just insane. There was just too much hype and too many people billing this guy as unbeatable.

 

[dave]

oh, and I'm not talking about you pro wrestling goofballs, the other one's

Say what you will, but you love pro wrestling too.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Hype is great for gambling, because lost in all of this was the fact Cain was an underdog last night. I got him at +165, which is insane, and won a nice chunk of cash. Easiest bet I've ever made.

Look, Brock is a super athlete with crazy genetics, able to carry 265 on a massive frame with crazy strength. His weakness is now clear - hit him in the face. But he's still an upper echelon guy in his division and a handful for just about anyone to deal with. He may have been overhyped, but the people who were waiting for him to lose to say "I told you so!" Are going a bit too far in the critisms. He should retire? Go back to prowres? He's a bum? C'mon. Let's get some perspective. Everyone gets worked at some point in this sport.

And from the non elitist standpoint, his fights are fun to watch and he brings an energy few do. The guy is great for MMA. I had a shit ton of fun watching that fight at a movie theatre with a good mix of casuals and hardcores.

 

[Liquidrob]

He is not a bum, I don't think he should retire, not talking rankings, I say he is like the 8th to 10th best HW right now just off his wrestling and being a big time athlete, if he doesnt improve he will lose a lot more if they don't protect him and just feed him Frank Mir over and over

I think he might retire because he doesnt like to get hit and he can make money elsewhere, plus he doesnt even need money, guy lives off the land

 

[EmpireWF]

The only reason why he was given such a great opportunity is due to his name. Just like Kimbo Slice, but unlike him Brock did not enter into the sport humbly so it is what it is.

It's no secret the reason he was pushed so much was because he was a draw. So what? All the power to Brock for being able to cash in on his name and draw several 1 million buyrates in the UFC, helping to crush the rest of the PPV business.

And how can you say he didn't enter the sport humbly? He started out against an old Korean judo guy. He wanted to test himself against good competition so he went straight to the UFC. He didn't want to waste time fighting Jason Guida or Bob Sapp.

Fact is Brock is a good fighter. Just like everyone else, he has his own weakness. Think of it like this, minus the time off from the disease, he's been training for the better part of two-plus years. That's after taking about six years off from any legitimate combat sports training.


The ONLY reason I would say Brock is considering his future in the sport is because he has shown a history as an adult of walking away. When he realized his future in pro wrestling would consist of destroying his body and all that other shit, he walked away. When he could have pursued a career in the NFL, he walked away because there was no money in being a young NFL hopeful. Now we'll see whether he truly wants to be known as a great fighter or not.

I think after this calms down, they get him back in the cage by the summer against Mir for the payday. Whether Lesnar truly does whats best for his fight future and goes balls out to improve his striking, who knows.

I hope so because he's great for the sport.

Of course if for whatever reason he's thinking about stepping back into bed with McMahon and do a lighter schedule....I would say no fucking way he's doing it, but crazier things have happened.

 

[Steel Mamba]

It's no secret the reason he was pushed so much was because he was a draw. So what? All the power to Brock for being able to cash in on his name and draw several 1 million buyrates in the UFC, helping to crush the rest of the PPV business.

And how can you say he didn't enter the sport humbly? He started out against an old Korean judo guy. He wanted to test himself against good competition so he went straight to the UFC. He didn't want to waste time fighting Jason Guida or Bob Sapp.

Fact is Brock is a good fighter. Just like everyone else, he has his own weakness. Think of it like this, minus the time off from the disease, he's been training for the better part of two-plus years. That's after taking about six years off from any legitimate combat sports training.


The ONLY reason I would say Brock is considering his future in the sport is because he has shown a history as an adult of walking away. When he realized his future in pro wrestling would consist of destroying his body and all that other shit, he walked away. When he could have pursued a career in the NFL, he walked away because there was no money in being a young NFL hopeful. Now we'll see whether he truly wants to be known as a great fighter or not.

I think after this calms down, they get him back in the cage by the summer against Mir for the payday. Whether Lesnar truly does whats best for his fight future and goes balls out to improve his striking, who knows.

I hope so because he's great for the sport.

Of course if for whatever reason he's thinking about stepping back into bed with McMahon and do a lighter schedule....I would say no fucking way he's doing it, but crazier things have happened.

I defended Kimbo when everyone was trash talking him for being in the spotlight and I'll do the exact same for Brock. Obviously if those type of opportunities are available you go for it. That's not my complaint. The issue here is/was all the fans crowning this guy with less than 2 years training in the sport. There were tons of people putting a guy with 3 or 4 wins over the likes of Fedor. That's the problem. So when that's the public perception, yes I want someone like Cain to come along and knock people back into reality.

Yes he's an amazing athlete and has accomplished a lot in a short time, but that minimal training experience is also the reason as to why he's not ready to face the level of competition that he has. I agree that his fights are exciting, but I don't know if I want to pay $50 to see someone fight who responds to being punched the way he does. He has a lot of potential, but he needs more time.


edit:

Also, what's great for the sport are dedicated athletes with enough training and experience to represent the sport well. With that said I don't know if Brock barrel rolling across the cage or turning around and running are great for the sport. If he's questioning the WWE thing then it's time to move on. If he's serious and wants to continue to perfect his abilities then I'll have all the respect for him.

 

[Liquidrob]

Being athletically gifted and having a good wrestling background is not enough. Which gets back to another long debate we had here about wrestling pedigrees. Just because you have the better am wrestling accolades does not automatically make you the better wrestler in MMA. Point proven again when Brock failed to out-wrestle the smaller Cain.

Wrestling pedigree is still important, I said before though which most people didnt agree with, Cain is a better wrestler than Brock

Cain just couldnt get past Konrad a couple times in college in the finals, Brock and Cain both were great college wrestlers, but Cain went from college to training MMA

Brock hasnt wrestled for like 10 years, going to the WWE hurt him, it didnt help him, you just dont wrestler for 10 years and still wrestle at a national champion level right away, you have to train it, Brock would have been a monster coming out of college like Cain, Konrad, Bader, etc...but the money was to good in pro wrestling to pass up

 

[EmpireWF]

I defended Kimbo when everyone was trash talking him for being in the spotlight and I'll do the exact same for Brock. Obviously if those type of opportunities are available you go for it. That's not my complaint. The issue here is/was all the fans crowning this guy with less than 2 years training in the sport. There were tons of people putting a guy with 3 or 4 wins over the likes of Fedor. That's the problem. So when that's the public perception, yes I want someone like Cain to come along and knock people back into reality.

Yes he's an amazing athlete and has accomplished a lot in a short time, but that minimal training experience is also the reason as to why he's not ready to face the level of competition that he has. I agree that his fights are exciting, but I don't know if I want to pay $50 to see someone fight who responds to being punched the way he does. He has a lot of potential, but he needs more time.


edit:

Also, what's great for the sport are dedicated athletes with enough training and experience to represent the sport well. With that said I don't know if Brock barrel rolling across the cage or turning around and running are great for the sport. If he's questioning the WWE thing then it's time to move on. If he's serious and wants to continue to perfect his abilities then I'll have all the respect for him.

First, who had a problem with Kimbo? I assume the spotlight you mentioned was his EXC main events. I had no problem with that. They were against journeymen heavyweights and brought in tons of eyeballs to MMA. Whether it was the fights with Tank, Thompson or Tuf10, it was good for MMA.

There's no doubt Brock in MMA is good for the sport. Do you think the shows he was on do as good business wise? Who knows how many people ordered, watched their first MMA show because of Brock. No way to tell how many people became fans after watching UFC 81, UFC 87, UFC 91, UFC 100, UFC 116 or even 121. Hell, I'm sure some fans were created because Cain knocked him out.

I don't see one negative result of Brock becoming an MMA fighter like he did.



As for your issue with people proclaiming him #1. They only did after Fedor lost by tap out. Someone had to be #1. If you're ranking, who's #1? A guy who was a borderline top ten heavyweight who subbed Fedor, or the #2 heavyweight behind Fedor?

The UFC pushed him as the best thing since sliced bread because he appeared to be unstoppable. He beat the only man to beat him. He took a pounding from Carwin, didn't quit and ended up submitting him. Who knew he would come out like James Thompson and freak himself out at the first punch?


I will say my jaw was wide open when I saw Velasquez bounce up from those two takedowns like they were nothing. It was insane. There may not be any man alive who can take him down without knocking him loopy.

 

[Steel Mamba]

First, who had a problem with Kimbo? I assume the spotlight you mentioned was his EXC main events. I had no problem with that. They were against journeymen heavyweights and brought in tons of eyeballs to MMA. Whether it was the fights with Tank, Thompson or Tuf10, it was good for MMA.

There's no doubt Brock in MMA is good for the sport. Do you think the shows he was on do as good business wise? Who knows how many people ordered, watched their first MMA show because of Brock. No way to tell how many people became fans after watching UFC 81, UFC 87, UFC 91, UFC 100, UFC 116 or even 121. Hell, I'm sure some fans were created because Cain knocked him out.

I don't see one negative result of Brock becoming an MMA fighter like he did.



As for your issue with people proclaiming him #1. They only did after Fedor lost by tap out. Someone had to be #1. If you're ranking, who's #1? A guy who was a borderline top ten heavyweight who subbed Fedor, or the #2 heavyweight behind Fedor?

The UFC pushed him as the best thing since sliced bread because he appeared to be unstoppable. He beat the only man to beat him. He took a pounding from Carwin, didn't quit and ended up submitting him. Who knew he would come out like James Thompson and freak himself out at the first punch?


I will say my jaw was wide open when I saw Velasquez bounce up from those two takedowns like they were nothing. It was insane. There may not be any man alive who can take him down without knocking him loopy.

We all know about the criticism Kimbo took for all the pub he received so I won't go into that. Of course Brock brought in a lot of first time viewers, that's a safe assumption, but keep in mind that first impressions are often everything. So is it a good look to have your HW champion running and flipping around the cage? Especially a guy that's being pushed as the best HW fighter and someone who's suppose to be unstoppable. Do you want the guy who you say is the best HW the sport has to offer looking as raw as Brock looks in the cage? Personally I don't think so. I don't think Lesnar is the type of guy that's currently capable of showcasing the best of MMA. I really couldn't imagine the same scenario happening in boxing and that actually growing the sport. With the right marketing you can always bring in viewers, but in sports it takes top caliber talent to actually grow the sport.

You were surprised when Cain bounced back up? Why, when an older and smaller Randy Couture was able to do exactly the same?

 

[EmpireWF]

We all know about the criticism Kimbo took for all the pub he received so I won't go into that. Of course Brock brought in a lot of first time viewers, that's a safe assumption, but keep in mind that first impressions are often everything. So is it a good look to have your HW champion running and flipping around the cage? Especially a guy that's being pushed as the best HW fighter and someone who's suppose to be unstoppable. Do you want the guy who you say is the best HW the sport has to offer looking as raw as Brock looks in the cage? Personally I don't think so. I don't think Lesnar is the type of guy that's currently capable of showcasing the best of MMA. I really couldn't imagine the same scenario happening in boxing and that actually growing the sport. With the right marketing you can always bring in viewers, but in sports it takes top caliber talent to actually grow the sport.

You were surprised when Cain bounced back up? Why, when an older and smaller Randy Couture was able to do exactly the same?

Didn't say I was surprised. I was impressed by how effortless he made it look.

I don't think any first time PPV buyers or first time MMA watchers left the Cain/Brock fight thinking....damn the former champion looked like a goof rolling around the cage. I will never watch MMA again.

You're looking at his falling over because he was rocked. No big deal.

Everyone knew Brock was raw as a fighter. I don't think anyone said he was a finished product.

 

[PP]

Fighters lose. Why can't this motivate Brock to become better and improve on his weaknesses? Guy has the physical attributes alone to compete I doubt he is going anywhere and I feel bad for whomever he faces next because he is going to probably kill them.

 

[Steel Mamba]

http://www.mmanews.com/news/88835

This is a slap in the face for MMA and why I want no parts of the WWE in MMA.

 

[EmpireWF]

http://www.mmanews.com/news/88835

This is a slap in the face for MMA and why I want no parts of the WWE in MMA.

lmao This is surprising?

This broke Sunday.

What slap in the face of MMA is it? McMahon wanted Brock for WM to help business. Dana White said no.

The end.

 

[SHOGUN]

If anything, Dana should co-sign Lesnar to go to TNA for a brief appearance since they are on the same channel.

:shifty:

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

http://www.mmanews.com/news/88835

This is a slap in the face for MMA and why I want no parts of the WWE in MMA.

We've been talking about this in the other thread for days.

How is it a slap in the face? MMA fighters do pro wrestling all the time. Its no different than Randy Couture doing a movie. Who cares?

 

[Steel Mamba]

Randy Couture isn't cutting promos for his next movie during a UFC PPV. The way Brock is letting the two intersect is just disrespectful to the sport and you have to wonder now how serious he is about MMA.

 

[MRN]

Lesnar will go back to the training grounds, get better, and come back stronger, smarter, and with better endurance. Book it.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Randy Couture isn't cutting promos for his next movie during a UFC PPV. The way Brock is letting the two intersect is just disrespectful to the sport and you have to wonder now how serious he is about MMA.

Lesnar didn't "cut a promo" either. In fact, he didn't do anything.

Undertaker purchased a ticket, sat in the front row (like he does nearly every show), and was being interviewed by a third party (Ariel Helwani) when Brock walked by. Taker asked him a question, and Brock blew him off completely without saying a word. I'm fact, if not for Helwani interviewing Undertaker at that moment, nobody would even know about any of this.

Brock still hasn't said a word about this publically. The only person to speak on it has been Dana, who said he won't let Brock do it, even if he wanted to.

So how exactly is Brock letting anything intersect? He hates pro wrestling, btw.

 

[Liquidrob]

Lesnar will go back to the training grounds, get better, and come back stronger, smarter, and with better endurance. Book it.

All that doesnt matter if you're afraid to get hit

Not sure if its true, read that in his training camp his sparring partners were not allowed to hit him in the face, but he got to blast everyone

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

You know, when you really take a hard look at his career, he's been nothing but humble and respectful....except when he fights Frank Mir, who he clearly dislikes. Keep in mind that he blew off the post fight presser on Sat, because he didn't want to take Cain's spotlight, knowing he would have drawn nearly all of the attention. He has shown nothing but respect towards everyone except for Mir.