[ALL] I Help Make Video Games, And I'm Sick Of The Hatred From Gamers (Kotaku)

[JimLeavy59]

Because there is a 4 or 5 year development cycle as opposed to 9-10 months for yearly releases?!?

Trolling and feedback are 2 different things.

Trolling is "I can't put dreads on (random player)... game is broken"

Feedback is: "We need the option to change current players hairstyles/equipment so we can update the players to their real life counterparts"

Huge difference.

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What are you rambling on about?

 

[MrBill]

What are you rambling on about?

Take your trolling back to the Locker Room or you'll just lose your Arcade privileges :yep:

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Because there is a 4 or 5 year development cycle as opposed to 9-10 months for yearly releases?!?

Trolling and feedback are 2 different things.

Trolling is "I can't put dreads on (random player)... game is broken"

Feedback is: "We need the option to change current players hairstyles/equipment so we can update the players to their real life counterparts"

Huge difference.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

I think years of reading forums on Epic/Bungie/EA game titles has taught me that most developers see any complaints and feedback as trolling.
Unless you sandwich a criticism between long winded omg thank you guys for even giving us games you will be seen as negative and a troll.
I see it all the time , EA madden guys have been notorious for demanding no complaint forums and no negative posts in order for them to give a QnA etc.
Screw them. Like it or not of you're a creative then you're in the criticism business. People are scum and I wish it were different but take it with the salary or look elsewhere.

 

[Houston]

Trolling and feedback are 2 different things.

Trolling is "I can't put dreads on (random player)... game is broken"

Feedback is: "We need the option to change current players hairstyles/equipment so we can update the players to their real life counterparts"

Huge difference.

:walker: Awful post, and here's my supporting evidence...


1.

A troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

The "troll" in your post did none of that.

2. Both examples that you gave are the same exact thing.

3. Discrediting actual feedback because it comes from a "troll" is considered ad hominem. It's one of the defining characteristics of a troll, and it's ironically being used by you.

 

[Maynard]

Take your trolling back to the Locker Room or you'll just lose your Arcade privileges :yep:

this is uncalled for. jim isnt trolling buckeye. buckeyes post is rambling and imo, is completely false. how jim words his question goes to the heart of this discussion. Buckeye is claiming its trolling when someone words their displeasure for a game in what he thinks is a rude manor. This is not trolling. When you claim jim is trolling you are doing so because you think Jim asked a question in a rude manor. Its a matter of an opinion. this is not trolling. he didnt insult the guy. he simply asked in a light hearted humorous manor for buckeye to elaborate.

when you make a comment like this because your defending your boy, it creates a negative vibe among the entire forum. people shouldn't be threatened by loss of privilege because you dont like how they choose to express themselves.

 

[MrBill]

this is uncalled for. jim isnt trolling buckeye. buckeyes post is rambling and imo, is completely false. how jim words his question goes to the heart of this discussion. Buckeye is claiming its trolling when someone words their displeasure for a game in what he thinks is a rude manor. This is not trolling. When you claim jim is trolling you are doing so because you think Jim asked a question in a rude manor. Its a matter of an opinion. this is not trolling. he didnt insult the guy. he simply asked in a light hearted humorous manor for buckeye to elaborate.

when you make a comment like this because your defending your boy, it creates a negative vibe among the entire forum. people shouldn't be threatened by loss of privilege because you dont like how they choose to express themselves.

Slow your roll Maynard. The fact that the Internet has provided a level of anonymity with which to call for the children of developers to be stricken with cancer because some feature didn't make it in this year or other idiotic shit is well documented and the discussion is valid. Whether or not you choose to acknowledge something that Twitter has been buzzing about over the past few weeks is up to you.

I also don't need you to tell me how to moderate the site. The person I put back on point was removed by the previous owners from the Arcade section for constant trolling and we reinstated it as a show of good faith when the site changed hands. If a person has constructive feedback, then post away in the thread. If they are trying to goad a negative reaction, then they will either take it to the Locker Room or lose access.

 

[buckeye]

this is uncalled for. jim isnt trolling buckeye. buckeyes post is rambling and imo, is completely false. how jim words his question goes to the heart of this discussion. Buckeye is claiming its trolling when someone words their displeasure for a game in what he thinks is a rude manor. This is not trolling. When you claim jim is trolling you are doing so because you think Jim asked a question in a rude manor. Its a matter of an opinion. this is not trolling. he didnt insult the guy. he simply asked in a light hearted humorous manor for buckeye to elaborate.

when you make a comment like this because your defending your boy, it creates a negative vibe among the entire forum. people shouldn't be threatened by loss of privilege because you dont like how they choose to express themselves.

No offense taken period, nor did I feel like i was insulted. My point simply put is several users throughout these forums question why the site doesn't get more traffic or why they get ignored from mainstream developers. This entire section is a good reason why. Not one good example of what is wrong with any games inparticular other than "game sucks"... "developer sucks" while blatantly ignoring that ALL games have issues... some of them major. This community will continue to get overlooked until it's users can treat people the way they want to be treated themselves in a public place. Using the internet as an excuse is just plain silly.

Bill and Thomas have busted butt trying to get the site noticed and bring in actual developer interaction. The response to this aritcle here is a great barometer of how far we need to go here. It's not about being anyones "boy"... we are all here because we love games (sports games) and want to see them improve. If your post doesn't hint at improvement ... then why post at all?!? Negative Nancy crap is for OS... is that the goal here... to be OS jr.?

 

[Maynard]

the arcade has a core group of people who have known each other for 10 or more years. the friendships and banter that takes place in this section is evident of that. For you to come along and make comments like you are in the know, is very insulting. If you guys want to ride the coat tails of OS, or want to be butt buddies of the developers, then thats your choice. but if thats the case, then you will not have to worry about how the current base posts because 90% of them will be gone.

you said you were not insulted or offended period....which anyone (other than bill) assumed. with that said, why the need to threaten Jim with revoking his ability to post in here? If Bill has some issue with Jim from past ownership or whatever, then that should be handled privately. Saying it to him in the contact of this thread was uncalled for.

And the real hipocracy of wanting to bring in developers and treating people with respect is that this is nothing more than you being the new admin or owner having merged with us and Bill making sure you protects you as a co-owner. I see blatant flaming and attacks not being addressed outside of the locker room that get thanks from the ownership.

 

[MrBill]

If you have an issue Maynard, please get to it quickly. To a new person at the site, it does appear that you are extremely negative. Hell it appears that way to me and I have been on the site for 10+ years with you. People respond to negativity with more negativity and then it just snowballs. Try smiling when you type a response :dd:

If there is a post you see outside of the Locker Room where there are personal attacks or trolling that I haven't noticed, please avail yourself of the triangular shaped icon in the lower bar of the offending post so that it will be reported to the moderators for review.

 

[Maynard]

Slow your roll Maynard. The fact that the Internet has provided a level of anonymity with which to call for the children of developers to be stricken with cancer because some feature didn't make it in this year or other idiotic shit is well documented and the discussion is valid. Whether or not you choose to acknowledge something that Twitter has been buzzing about over the past few weeks is up to you.

I also don't need you to tell me how to moderate the site. The person I put back on point was removed by the previous owners from the Arcade section for constant trolling and we reinstated it as a show of good faith when the site changed hands. If a person has constructive feedback, then post away in the thread. If they are trying to goad a negative reaction, then they will either take it to the Locker Room or lose access.

cmon....obvious trolling is obvious. nobody is talking about cancer of the children and defending that. But what buckeye stated in his post as trolling is simply not.

when you threaten someone with banning from a forum over something so trivial, it makes you look bad and makes the site look bad. people will see that and have another reason not to post.

 

[Maynard]

If you have an issue Maynard, please get to it quickly. To a new person at the site, it does appear that you are extremely negative. Hell it appears that way to me and I have been on the site for 10+ years with you. People respond to negativity with more negativity and then it just snowballs. Try smiling when you type a response :dd:

If there is a post you see outside of the Locker Room where there are personal attacks or trolling that I haven't noticed, please avail yourself of the triangular shaped icon in the lower bar of the offending post so that it will be reported to the moderators for review.

since when do i care what anyone thinks of me?

its not my job to report a post. the comments didnt bother me one bit. but as i stated, the posts were thanked by an owner which shows that keeping things respectable is not a top agenda. that was my point

 

[MrBill]

cmon....obvious trolling is obvious. nobody is talking about cancer of the children and defending that. But what buckeye stated in his post as trolling is simply not.

when you threaten someone with banning from a forum over something so trivial, it makes you look bad and makes the site look bad. people will see that and have another reason not to post.

Then say that you agree in principle with the gist of the article but not so much the examples. Please do not put words in my post, I said he would lose his access to the Arcade section again not the entire site. Contrary to the popular myth, I have never banned anyone from this site.

 

[buckeye]

the arcade has a core group of people who have known each other for 10 or more years. the friendships and banter that takes place in this section is evident of that. For you to come along and make comments like you are in the know, is very insulting. If you guys want to ride the coat tails of OS, or want to be butt buddies of the developers, then thats your choice. but if thats the case, then you will not have to worry about how the current base posts because 90% of them will be gone.

you said you were not insulted or offended period....which anyone (other than bill) assumed. with that said, why the need to threaten Jim with revoking his ability to post in here? If Bill has some issue with Jim from past ownership or whatever, then that should be handled privately. Saying it to him in the contact of this thread was uncalled for.

And the real hipocracy of wanting to bring in developers and treating people with respect is that this is nothing more than you being the new admin or owner having merged with us and Bill making sure you protects you as a co-owner. I see blatant flaming and attacks not being addressed outside of the locker room that get thanks from the ownership.

as to the first point I bolded ... you already have that. OS has lost most of it's developer interaction most likely due to people continually acting a fool. Maybe thats the reason, maybe it isn't but as someone who was there from 08 til '12 i would say it wouldn't surprise me.

as to the second part... I'm not an owner of this site.

The owners of this site put in more work than you know to make this a desirable place. as far as flaming outside of the locker room... yep, I see it, am guilty of it. But essentially I look at it this way.. if someone puts up a blatantly false post or reply... they DESERVE to get flamed. I have seen multiple posts in the general threads that are 100% false and are nothing more than an attempt to be stupid or spread ignorance.

Am i "in the know on this site" nope. I don't know anything really. But I can make assuptions based off of the posts of our owners.

Lets be honest here, I'm not the type of person you are used to. I'm not the guy who acts a fool on a message board. I'm the guy who tries to be honest and respectful but won't hesitate to put someone on blast for posting inaccurate stuff. I laugh and joke around like everyone else... I'm a Browns fan for pete's sake... but as I said earlier, this thread is a great indicator of problems. I am an "glass is half full" person. Negativity is a cancer... no one wants to deal with negative people in life... thats why they hide on the internet.

 

[Maynard]

Then say that you agree in principle with the gist of the article but not so much the examples. Please do not put words in my post, I said he would lose his access to the Arcade section again not the entire site. Contrary to the popular myth, I have never banned anyone from this site.

i didnt mean to put words in your post...i said 'a forum' meaning this one...not all of them. poorly worded on my part, sorry.

the article isnt really in question. its more about disagreeing with buckeye at this point. he is entitled to his opinion, i just disagree with his view on commenting on games. he appears, and i may be wrong, but he appears to have a very pro developer mentality like no matter what they do, its for the good of gaming and they should be applauded for just making the effort to produce a game....like no anti comments unless its constructive feedback or you are a troll and negative.

i disagree with that. imo, the gaming world is declining and will continue to do so. now a days its cheaper to make a repeat game based on the previous model. its no longer about making good games, its about making money. EA is the biggest offender in not only the gaming world, but just in general. they have been voted the worst company in america for like the past 2 years in a row.

how people choose to voice those opinions is a matter of free speech.

 

[buckeye]

i didnt mean to put words in your post...i said 'a forum' meaning this one...not all of them. poorly worded on my part, sorry.

the article isnt really in question. its more about disagreeing with buckeye at this point. he is entitled to his opinion, i just disagree with his view on commenting on games. he appears, and i may be wrong, but he appears to have a very pro developer mentality like no matter what they do, its for the good of gaming and they should be applauded for just making the effort to produce a game....like no anti comments unless its constructive feedback or you are a troll and negative.

i disagree with that. imo, the gaming world is declining and will continue to do so. now a days its cheaper to make a repeat game based on the previous model. its no longer about making good games, its about making money. EA is the biggest offender in not only the gaming world, but just in general. they have been voted the worst company in america for like the past 2 years in a row.

how people choose to voice those opinions is a matter of free speech.

Not necessarily... but honestly if you would have asked or stated this intially there would have been zero issues. TBH I have spent several years giving different developers feedback on games, both postitive and negative. I pretty much have the same issues with the games that everyone does... I just state them differently. I don't kiss butt nor do I disrespect game companies. They make mistakes... it happens... mainly their mistakes are over publicized by media.

I don't see any gaming company as evil, they all have strong points. They aren't our enemies... media would have you believe otherwise. Turst me, half of the sites/people that are blasting companies/games are secretly sucking their asses behind the scenes in order to get early info or free games/swag. It's absolutely hilarious.

To me, there is no point in going apeshit on a developer or posting their personal info on the internet in order to get people to troll them at home. It's stupid, childish... and folks that do that don't have the balls to say something negative in person.. believe me when I say thats 1000% accurate.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

Examples? Broken as in doesn't insert disc and doesn't work? Or doesn't do what YOU think it should?
I'm sure the owners of VSN (thomas and bill) would love to be a place where developers come collect feedback and users can can voice concerns in a way that is useful. The quoted post above is far from that. Its a general statement with zero backbone or supporting evidence.

Are there things wrong with sports games? Hell yes... "broken" is an troll term. Like I said before only one game has came out inherently broken.. and that wasn't an EA game. Facts my friend ... use em... embrace em...

Provide actual feedback... E-cred is pointless

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Broken isn't a troll term. Overused ? Yes...troll term ? No.

I think you need to distinguish negative posts , angry posts, and troll posts. Lumping them all together into the unsavory and unworthy of response pile is detrimental to your personal judgement. Not everyone is going to be eloquent and knowledgeable on the subject. All they know is "purchased game so I can do X...game wont allow me to do this"
Having a "happy" complaint will likely garner a quicker response but it also will easily land you in the pile of "who cares". The squeaky hinge gets the oil and if all Devs get is happy wonderful feedback and "suggestions" you will get a "hmmm great idea ! maybe next year" response.

Not necessarily... but honestly if you would have asked or stated this intially there would have been zero issues. TBH I have spent several years giving different developers feedback on games, both postitive and negative. I pretty much have the same issues with the games that everyone does... I just state them differently. I don't kiss butt nor do I disrespect game companies. They make mistakes... it happens... mainly their mistakes are over publicized by media.

I don't see any gaming company as evil, they all have strong points. They aren't our enemies... media would have you believe otherwise. Turst me, half of the sites/people that are blasting companies/games are secretly sucking their asses behind the scenes in order to get early info or free games/swag. It's absolutely hilarious.

To me, there is no point in going apeshit on a developer or posting their personal info on the internet in order to get people to troll them at home. It's stupid, childish... and folks that do that don't have the balls to say something negative in person.. believe me when I say thats 1000% accurate.

Many companies work against our best interest. Their best interest is rarely in line with ours. People need to be vocal when they are slighted its the ONLY way to change anything. Posting personal info is obviously going too far , but how is that even remotely in the same class as "i cant get dreads on #29 game is broken".
Im not kidding when I say they need to find new lines of work then. You don't get into a digital creative business where feedback is so immediate and apparent only to shutdown because of forum "trolls". Especially in an industry that already shuns creativity and is regressing because of the money grab sequel nature that is far too prominent.

Bottom line it honestly worries me the cultural divide we're seeing when it comes to "trolling". Govt , Corporations , and even individuals putting out product just want to "shut everybody up". They want to lump any and all feedback and commentary that isnt complimentary into a trolling pile and never see it again. Like it or not its only when people are agitated and vocal that anything gets done its human nature. Of course some take it too far but what I'm seeing is oversensitive insecure people that simply cant take any criticism and would rather shutdown than learn how to manage it. Not just gaming devs but everywhere. Even YOUTUBE had to change its policies because creatives couldn't take the constant criticism. If you cant take the heat get out of the kitchen.

 

[grif]

There's a difference between being terrible and being broken. When it comes to EA, games like SimCity and Battlefield 4 are broken whereas games like most Madden's of last gen and NBA Elite are just terrible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJwXBw86g30


NBA Elite = Broken, and recalled, and just like the demo in the full version. Just sayin'.

 

[Maynard]

does ea make any games that not broken?

 

[killgod]

does ea make any games that not broken?

NBA Eli....no.

Battlefiel....nah.

Simci....nope.

Even their games that aren't technically "broken", Mass Effect 3? Dragon Age 2?...Broke alot of hearts. :ronaldo:

 

[Twigg4075]

NBA Eli....no.

Battlefiel....nah.

Simci....nope.

Even their games that aren't technically "broken", Mass Effect 3? Dragon Age 2?...Broke alot of hearts. :ronaldo:

Don't forget NCAA and Madden. While I am thoroughly enjoying (unlike most people) both games, and have Madden on PS3 and XBone, they both had issues. I can't progress an OD in NCAA because it keeps freezing and/or won't save. And the XBone Madden freezes in CFM if anyone tries to use Custom Playbooks. The games themselves are high quality (IMO) but it baffles me how some of this stuff gets by QA. But when you only have a nine month development cycle with these sports titles...