Is Chase Utley a Hall of Famer?

[Goober]

It seems like there's nothing that VSN loves more then Hall of Fame discussion, so lets try this again. Do you think Chase Utley is a future Hall of Famer?

I say yes, he played a tough position and had a great (note warner) peak. He was overshadowed by teammates in award voting, but I think he was the best player on the Phillie's World Championship team in 2008. Discuss.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Assuming he is effectively finished as a full time player (let alone a star), his career was way too short for my liking.

No.

 

[Goober]

Assuming he is effectively finished as a full time player (let alone a star), his career was way too short for my liking.

No.

I wouldn't say he's finished. He's been worth over seven wins the last two years (mind you that was only in ~800 at bats). Last year he batted .256/.365/.429. That's still very valuable as long as he can play a solid 2B. Utley is 34 this year, while he will be a free agent after this season, I could see him sticking around for another 3 years. Assuming half a win of regression each year, this would lead to Utley adding another 6 or so wins to his career total.

Utley got a late start to his career, but damn was it impressive, once he started. 5 straight 7+ WAR seasons from 2005-2009. Jeff Kent had two such seasons in his entire career. His 7 year WAR is the 6th highest of any 2B ever. And he has the I'll take a great peak like that over longevity.

 

[jms493]

yes, next player.

 

[Loco]

Assuming he is effectively finished as a full time player (let alone a star), his career was way too short for my liking.

No.

I disagree.

His career is long enough, 10 years in the majors. The reason he isnt a HOF is because of those 10 years he was only great or Hall of Fame worthy between 05-09. Basically his prime is waaaaay too short and rest of his career has been far too shitty to supplement his numbers.

His past 3 seasons have hurt him a lot from 05-09 he avg roughly 30HR/100RBI/300AVG/390OBP since then though he's been 12HR/50RBI/260AVG/360OBP far too big a discrepancy. He needed to supplement his prime with a couple of 20/80/280 seasons ect.

 

[NAHSTE]

Depends on how his career ends, he could cement his legacy with a strong finish or end up not doing it for long enough.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I disagree.

His career is long enough, 10 years in the majors. The reason he isnt a HOF is because of those 10 years he was only great or Hall of Fame worthy between 05-09. Basically his prime is waaaaay too short and rest of his career has been far too shitty to supplement his numbers.

His past 3 seasons have hurt him a lot from 05-09 he avg roughly 30HR/100RBI/300AVG/390OBP since then though he's been 12HR/50RBI/260AVG/360OBP far too big a discrepancy. He needed to supplement his prime with a couple of 20/80/280 seasons ect.

What exactly do you disagree with? It looks like you agree with me.

 

[Pitty]

I disagree.

His career is long enough, 10 years in the majors. The reason he isnt a HOF is because of those 10 years he was only great or Hall of Fame worthy between 05-09. Basically his prime is waaaaay too short and rest of his career has been far too shitty to supplement his numbers.

His past 3 seasons have hurt him a lot from 05-09 he avg roughly 30HR/100RBI/300AVG/390OBP since then though he's been 12HR/50RBI/260AVG/360OBP far too big a discrepancy. He needed to supplement his prime with a couple of 20/80/280 seasons ect.

It's not out of the question, he has only averaged about 100 games played over that timespan. I think a better question would have been whether Rollins is HOF level.

 

[FedEx227]

Rollins? Not a chance IMO. Peak was really not that good for a premium position. Miguel Tejada, Nomar Garciaparra, Derek Jeter are all contemporaries that were far better. Jose Reyes, Hanley and Tulo aren't far off either.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I wouldn't say he's finished. He's been worth over seven wins the last two years (mind you that was only in ~800 at bats). Last year he batted .256/.365/.429. That's still very valuable as long as he can play a solid 2B. Utley is 34 this year, while he will be a free agent after this season, I could see him sticking around for another 3 years. Assuming half a win of regression each year, this would lead to Utley adding another 6 or so wins to his career total.

Utley got a late start to his career, but damn was it impressive, once he started. 5 straight 7+ WAR seasons from 2005-2009. Jeff Kent had two such seasons in his entire career. His 7 year WAR is the 6th highest of any 2B ever. And he has the I'll take a great peak like that over longevity.

I don't want to hear about WAR the last couple of years when the guy can't stay on the field and hits .250. A good chunk of that is derived from his defense.

Unless he puts together a few more full, healthy, above average seasons to ice the cake, I don't think he's done enough. 300-400 AB's per year for three or four more years doesn't add anything for me in terms of HOF.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Rollins? Not a chance IMO. Peak was really not that good for a premium position. Miguel Tejada, Nomar Garciaparra, Derek Jeter are all contemporaries that were far better. Jose Reyes, Hanley and Tulo aren't far off either.

Speaking of Nomar, he's pretty similar to Utley.

Slightly longer peak, and tacked on a year or two at the end with the Dodgers. Utley has a higher overall WAR, but that's due to defense (although assuming he plays a few more years Utley will finish higher offensively, too).

I'd like to say yes to both, but can't do it. And i'm generally an easy vote. I like Nomar a little better, with the two batting titles, ROY, more black ink, etc.

 

[FedEx227]

I'm on the fence about those two. I'd probably put both in, but it would really take a lot more looking at who is still out and what my 10 for the next few years would be.

 

[Pitty]

Rollins? Not a chance IMO. Peak was really not that good for a premium position. Miguel Tejada, Nomar Garciaparra, Derek Jeter are all contemporaries that were far better. Jose Reyes, Hanley and Tulo aren't far off either.

Do you really believe that Rollins is far off Tejada, or even Nomar? They both (Tejada and Rollins) have an MVP, numerous All-Star Appearances, and Rollins has a handful of gold gloves and a comparable WAR to all three players. Only Jeter has more solidified accolades.

 

[FedEx227]

Rollins: .270/.328/.432, 97 OPS+, 40.3 career WAR/30.0 7yr-peak WAR

Tejada: .285/.336/.457, 109 OPS+, 42.3 career WAR/34.3 7yr-peak WAR

Nomar: .313/.361/.521, 124 OPS+, 42.0 career WAR/41.3 7yr-peak WAR

Now are they that far off, not really, he's close. I just don't think either of the three are slam-dunk HOFers. They'll probably have an uphill battle. If Tejada who is obviously better than Rollins has any difficulty getting in I don't see a scenario where Rollins could.

 

[Pitty]

Rollins: .270/.328/.432, 97 OPS+, 40.3 career WAR/30.0 7yr-peak WAR

Tejada: .285/.336/.457, 109 OPS+, 42.3 career WAR/34.3 7yr-peak WAR

Nomar: .313/.361/.521, 124 OPS+, 42.0 career WAR/41.3 7yr-peak WAR

Now are they that far off, not really, he's close. I just don't think either of the three are slam-dunk HOFers. They'll probably have an uphill battle. If Tejada who is obviously better than Rollins has any difficulty getting in I don't see a scenario where Rollins could.

Something is missing here, considering there are two facets to playing the game of Baseball, also Nomar and Tejada have a season up on Rollins, who will most likely pass both in WAR this year.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Tejada is never getting in because of PED's.

Nomar was better than both but for the shortest amount of time.

I really like Rollins and think he's exhibit A of a guy who gets shafted by metrics, but I cant pull the trigger on him. Wouldnt be offended if he got in though. I'd be a lot more comfortable if he puts together a few more good years.

 

[FedEx227]

Rollins doesn't even pass basic HOF standards though even looking outside of metrics. Do the Keltner Test on him. He's not even close IMO.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

btw fuck these threads, i want to watch baseball now

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Rollins doesn't even pass basic HOF standards though even looking outside of metrics. Do the Keltner Test on him. He's not even close IMO.

Yeah, like i said, i lean no and probably cant be swayed.

 

[FedEx227]

btw fuck these threads, i want to watch baseball now

These threads made me turn on MLB Network pretty much non-stop the past few days.