Is Chase Utley a Hall of Famer?

[FedEx227]

Yeah, like i said, i lean no and probably cant be swayed.

Let's also not forget that his MVP win wasn't really a great choice. In that year alone Pujols, Wright, Holiday, Utley, Jones and Tulo probably had better cases.

 

[Goober]

btw fuck these threads, i want to watch baseball now

These threads made me turn on MLB Network pretty much non-stop the past few days.

Gob bringing the people what they want. :yu:

 

[Goober]

I don't want to hear about WAR the last couple of years when the guy can't stay on the field and hits .250. A good chunk of that is derived from his defense.

Unless he puts together a few more full, healthy, above average seasons to ice the cake, I don't think he's done enough. 300-400 AB's per year for three or four more years doesn't add anything for me in terms of HOF.

The last two years, only ~1.5 of those 7 wins is from defense. While alone it's not HOF worthy, there's still a lot of value in a 2B who can hit .258/.353/.426. Last year the ML average at 2B was .257/.318/.383. Playing injured and into his mid thirties Utley is still well above replacement level. I don't understand what difference it makes whether Utley is getting 600 vs. 400 bats a season. I could understand if it was due to a strict platoon situation, but time missed to injury shouldn't matter if the outstanding peak and overall numbers are there.

Speaking of Nomar, he's pretty similar to Utley.

Slightly longer peak, and tacked on a year or two at the end with the Dodgers. Utley has a higher overall WAR, but that's due to defense (although assuming he plays a few more years Utley will finish higher offensively, too).

I'd like to say yes to both, but can't do it. And i'm generally an easy vote. I like Nomar a little better, with the two batting titles, ROY, more black ink, etc.

The difference in defense is a huge difference for these two players. Utley is one of the greatest defensive 2B of all time, Nomar was below average. I expect Utley to tack on a few more good years to end his career, if that happens, when all is said and done his counting stat numbers should be well past Nomar's.

For me Utley is a solid yes, assuming he finishes his career strong, while Nomar is on the outside looking in. I think Utley wins the tradeoff between great defense compared to slightly more power.

 

[NAHSTE]

The last two years, only ~1.5 of those 7 wins is from defense. While alone it's not HOF worthy, there's still a lot of value in a 2B who can hit .258/.353/.426. Last year the ML average at 2B was .257/.318/.383. Playing injured and into his mid thirties Utley is still well above replacement level. I don't understand what difference it makes whether Utley is getting 600 vs. 400 bats a season. I could understand if it was due to a strict platoon situation, but time missed to injury shouldn't matter if the outstanding peak and overall numbers are there.


The difference in defense is a huge difference for these two players. Utley is one of the greatest defensive 2B of all time, Nomar was below average. I expect Utley to tack on a few more good years to end his career, if that happens, when all is said and done his counting stat numbers should be well past Nomar's.

For me Utley is a solid yes, assuming he finishes his career strong, while Nomar is on the outside looking in. I think Utley wins the tradeoff between great defense compared to slightly more power.

For the sake of argument, don't you think Nomar could have also been a great defensive 2b based on his being passable at SS? You seem to be ignoring the discrepancy in the degree of difficulty between the two positions.

 

[Goober]

For the sake of argument, don't you think Nomar could have also been a great defensive 2b based on his being passable at SS? You seem to be ignoring the discrepancy in the degree of difficulty between the two positions.

I think it's impossible to judge a situation like this. If we're talking about this from strictly a WAR position, where Utley's career total already far surpasses Nomar's, any gain that Nomar made with better defense at 2B would be offset by the lower position adjustment to his WAR since he was playing an easier position.

In my mind I can't forgive that big of a difference between the two, just by playing a game of "What If?". Nomar had a great career at SS, but looking at his finished career I don't think it's enough for the HOF. On the other hand, Utley has a few years left baring a significant injury. There are less great HOF 2B, so I think that remaining time will help him push towards the top echelon of players at the position.

 

[ThomasTomasz]

He's a no for me. I'm a fan of longevity and his knee just doesn't do it for me. Plus, he's not the biggest name people will remember from his team during their own peak, so that will hurt him in the eyes of some voters, right or wrong.

 

[DJ Rhude]

I can't see Utley getting in.....good player, great for a few seasons but overall not HOF caliber...he'd need a helluva finish to his career to sway me on that

And if you put him in, then you open up the gates for guys like Bernie Williams.......and as much as I loved Bernie and as great as he was for us in NY, he wasn't what I would call HOF caliber either....although the 3% he got on this year's ballot was a little harsh

 

[SethMode]

He's a no for me. I'm a fan of longevity and his knee just doesn't do it for me. Plus, he's not the biggest name people will remember from his team during their own peak, so that will hurt him in the eyes of some voters, right or wrong.

His knee? Shit, that's the least of his problems (not really, but I'm being facetious). You pick a spot on Chase's legs, and there has probably been an issue there. He's one of my favorite Phils ever, but I don't see him getting in. He's just too fragile and because he has lacked/will lack the longevity/complete seasons, and hasn't had the huge, blockbuster healthy seasons, I don't see him getting in.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

The last two years, only ~1.5 of those 7 wins is from defense. While alone it's not HOF worthy, there's still a lot of value in a 2B who can hit .258/.353/.426. Last year the ML average at 2B was .257/.318/.383. Playing injured and into his mid thirties Utley is still well above replacement level. I don't understand what difference it makes whether Utley is getting 600 vs. 400 bats a season. I could understand if it was due to a strict platoon situation, but time missed to injury shouldn't matter if the outstanding peak and overall numbers are there.

Yes it should, because batting .250 over 400 plate appearances, at least for me, does absolutely nothing to enhance his HOF resume. He hasn't been a healthy, star player since 2009, and was only elite for five seasons. Limping to the finish line hitting .250 while missing 70 games per year isn't putting him over the top, I don't care how much WAR he accumulates. Talk to me when he puts together three more healthy seasons, and let's see where he sits. I think he's close enough to where that might help.

The difference in defense is a huge difference for these two players. Utley is one of the greatest defensive 2B of all time, Nomar was below average. I expect Utley to tack on a few more good years to end his career, if that happens, when all is said and done his counting stat numbers should be well past Nomar's.

For me Utley is a solid yes, assuming he finishes his career strong, while Nomar is on the outside looking in. I think Utley wins the tradeoff between great defense compared to slightly more power.

Utley's counting numbers aren't that much better than Dan Uggla's right now. Neither are his percentages. They are about the same age, and Uggla has no serious injury issues. Uggla will probably finish with better counting stats.

That's not an endorsement for Uggla, because he isn't even close, but it shows how short of a period of time Utley really was great.

And while I say no to Nomar too, I like his resume better than Utley. Before injuries, he was well on his way to being a legendary, all time icon. Two batting titles (.372! .357!), ROY, over .900 OPS as a shortstop before he got hurt, over 50 doubles multiple times, 190+ hits six times, a lock for 100 RBI & 100 runs every season, just a super super offensive force.

He was also a plus defender when healthy, so I don't know where you get the idea he wasn't any good in the field. Not as good of a SS as Utley was a 2B, that is true. But when both were at their peak and healthy, i'm starting my team with Nomar, with very little regret.