Jim Zorn

[Golden Taters]

He could have tried reading the playbook for once in his life.

If it wasn't for Dave Krieg back in '84, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs. Dave Krieg actually managed to throw 32 TD passes that season, after they finally realized what a hack Zorn was back in '83. After replacing Zorn, Krieg still managed to go 5-3, with 18 TD passes, and 11 Interceptions.. Might look like average numbers, but compared to Jim Zorn, it was a step in the right direction.

I seriously laugh at this entire conversation about Zorn's NFL career.

I would say the conference championship appereance was due to Curt Warner more than Dave Krieg.

 

[Nukleopatra]

I would say the conference championship appereance was due to Curt Warner more than Dave Krieg.

It's a bit easier to make a difference when your QB is somewhat competent.

If they don't bench Zorn, they don't make the playoffs.

 

[Bmore]

I saw him in a Seattle game because I was tryin to learn WR moves from Steve Largent and found out Largent's best move was turning and hoping Zorn wasnt sacked

LMAO, pretty funny

But realistically shouldn't sacks count more toward the O-line... I mean sure a QB can hold onto the ball to long (Aaron Rodgers) or have no mobility (Carson Palmer) but sometimes your O-line just sucks (2002 Texans...)

 

[Senser81]

Well, yes, I do realize those points. I thought it'd be interesting to see because I did see a lot of him in seattle.

There is no way you saw a lot of him in seattle. First, you are probably 16 years-old. Second, its as if you are surprised that Zorn is bad on the Packers. If you really did see a lot of Zorn in Seattle, then you'd understand that by the time he was on Green Bay his mobility was gone. It would be like judging Mark Brunell's career based on his performance with the Redskins.

Yes, Dave is right, Zorn had a GOOD, but not great career. Steve Largent helped in Seattle, Green Bay sucked...

Zorn was a QB for the expansion Seahawks. He almost single-handedly made them the most competitive expansion team in history. I think they had a winning record in their 3rd year, and immediately had one of the best offenses in the NFL. You are making it seem as if all Zorn had to do was drop back and lob the ball to Largent.

Marino, when good had Mark Duper, Mercury Morris run game, and a solid core around him.

LOL at Marino and Mercury Morris. Off by only a decade. Neal Anderson was instrumental in Rex Grossman's development, too.

 

[Senser81]

He could have tried reading the playbook for once in his life.

If it wasn't for Dave Krieg back in '84, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs. Dave Krieg actually managed to throw 32 TD passes that season, after they finally realized what a hack Zorn was back in '83. After replacing Zorn, Krieg still managed to go 5-3, with 18 TD passes, and 11 Interceptions.. Might look like average numbers, but compared to Jim Zorn, it was a step in the right direction.

I seriously laugh at this entire conversation about Zorn's NFL career.

Krieg was a better passer than Zorn, but by that point the Seahawks had developed a solid O-line, a good run game, and a great defense. Take a look at the amount of sacks, turnovers, and defensive TDs the 1984 Seahawks had. Its really one of the best defenses in NFL history.

Again, Zorn's mobility and play-making ability made him a great QB for an expansion team with no O-line and very few good players. He was definitely a good QB for the Seahawks at that time.


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQf1rhAE_34&feature=related"]YouTube- Seahawks 1979 - Lesson in Creative Football[/ame]

 

[Senser81]

Actually I did see a lot of him in Seattle, I tried to learn WR movements and positioning back in jr. high and high school from tapes of him figuring I could be able to become a better player. I realized it was Largent's moves that made him a good WR. Zorn didnt have the mobility to begin with.

If you did see a lot of him in Seattle, then you wouldn't say that Zorn "didn't have the mobility to begin with" (whatever that means...so Zorn learned how to be mobile?). Zorn's mobility was his greatest asset.

I agree that Dave Krieg was the big reason they made the playoffs. It's like judging Mark Brunell on making the jags good (even though it was all McCardell and Fred Taylor if you ask me...)

What are you even trying to say here? I don't get it.

I was off by the decade there with Morris...i thought he was still on the team...(I never watched Miami cept for the 84 super bowl. lol)

You weren't even close.

Secondly, Im a little older than the 16 yr old high school kid dude...try another 7-8 years...I grew up watching the guys right after he retired and tried to learn from films from the Zorn, rookie Marino, Montana, Griese eras...

Well, you obviously still have a lot to learn.

I never said I was surprised by it. I said now I realize why he really did not do well as a coach...

But if you had seen Zorn in Seattle, then why would it take your recent viewing of a 1985 Bears-Packers game to draw a conclusion from Zorn's playing career? According to you, you've already seen Zorn play.

In sum, we already have ram29jackson in this section of VSN, and we don't need another know-it-all person who completely lacks both factual knowledge and logical reasoning.

Please go away.

TY

 

[dave]

Again, Zorn's mobility and play-making ability made him a great QB for an expansion team with no O-line and very few good players. He was definitely a good QB for the Seahawks at that time.


YouTube- Seahawks 1979 - Lesson in Creative Football

You and I agree on something.
Hell has frozen over.
I better hit a singles bar, I'm due to get lucky this week.

 

[steeljake]

You and I agree on something.
Hell has frozen over.
I better hit a singles bar, I'm due to get lucky this week.

the magic 8 ball says: outlook is not good.

 

[Bmore]

Dont give a shit who he is, thanks. And Zorn wasnt mobile...I still to this day don't believe he was.

I didn't draw the conclusion from it, i simply stated a game that he did terrible in. Yeah...so I chose a bad game to decide it on. GTFOH with I lack factual knowledge and reasoning. The dude was not good.

And if you read the entire thread (Which obviously you lack the brains to read an entire paragraph and just like to dissect random statements to prove your point...) you would've realized I was talking about what nucleo was with Krieg coming in after 5 games in Seattle to send them to the playoffs.

Now tell me that's a statement the guys was good? You've got to be kidding me.

I mess up the Dolphins starters in the 80s because I dont watch them (which I admitted)...they still had an extremely solid run game, which I was right on. That made Marino good.

I said Brunell wasnt the reason for the Jags success in the late 90s either. Know for a fact the Jags had FRED TAYLOR and KEENAN McCardell....Solid run + good receivers + good line = good QB. So you're saying Zorn was good, had mobility, whatever.

Where's your stats to prove it? The dude got INTs and sacks....His best season was in 1979, he put up over 3,000 yds passing 20 td and 18 int. But guess what, 57% completion...yeah, decent one year. That's like saying larry brown was good as a career just because of one season with dallas and Deion on the other side...he wasnt good. Offenses exposed him everywhere else he played.

I don't know it all, if you read last night and knew i was drunk you'd realize i wasnt paying attention to every little detail...

You can argue til your breath runs out...I still ain't leaving and Zorn was pretty bad...

He was 40-60 in 126 GS and 107 TDs and 133 INTs....201 sacks and a 67.9 passer rating...that's as good as rick mirer....

There's a point...speaking of bad O-Lines when Mirer was in Sea for 3 years, he amassed over 100 sacks on him...that's where id give benefit of the doubt to mobility.

Stats don't mean everything. If that was the case Carson Palmer would be a good quarterback.

 

[Nukleopatra]

Stats don't mean everything. If that was the case Carson Palmer would be a good quarterback.

People still insist that he is.

If any other quarterback had managed to throw 187 yards per game, while having both a top 10 running attack and defense, they'd be laughed at and belittled nonstop. What is it about Crapson Palmer that makes people like him? Now, this isn't another anti-Brees thing here, because even when I bashed Brees, he was a very good QB, but Crapson Palmer on the other hand, is complete shit. Now I'm hearing all this ''I want TO to sign with Cincy,'' like his stone fucking hands will help Crapson Palmer be even close to what he once was, even if it was for a short period of time.

 

[ram29jackson]

Dont give a shit who he is, thanks. And Zorn wasnt mobile...I still to this day don't believe he was.

I didn't draw the conclusion from it, i simply stated a game that he did terrible in. Yeah...so I chose a bad game to decide it on. GTFOH with I lack factual knowledge and reasoning. The dude was not good.

And if you read the entire thread (Which obviously you lack the brains to read an entire paragraph and just like to dissect random statements to prove your point...) you would've realized I was talking about what nucleo was with Krieg coming in after 5 games in Seattle to send them to the playoffs.

Now tell me that's a statement the guys was good? You've got to be kidding me.

I mess up the Dolphins starters in the 80s because I dont watch them (which I admitted)...they still had an extremely solid run game, which I was right on. That made Marino good.

I said Brunell wasnt the reason for the Jags success in the late 90s either. Know for a fact the Jags had FRED TAYLOR and KEENAN McCardell....Solid run + good receivers + good line = good QB. So you're saying Zorn was good, had mobility, whatever.

Where's your stats to prove it? The dude got INTs and sacks....His best season was in 1979, he put up over 3,000 yds passing 20 td and 18 int. But guess what, 57% completion...yeah, decent one year. That's like saying larry brown was good as a career just because of one season with dallas and Deion on the other side...he wasnt good. Offenses exposed him everywhere else he played.

I don't know it all, if you read last night and knew i was drunk you'd realize i wasnt paying attention to every little detail...

You can argue til your breath runs out...I still ain't leaving and Zorn was pretty bad...

He was 40-60 in 126 GS and 107 TDs and 133 INTs....201 sacks and a 67.9 passer rating...that's as good as rick mirer....

There's a point...speaking of bad O-Lines when Mirer was in Sea for 3 years, he amassed over 100 sacks on him...that's where id give benefit of the doubt to mobility.

going purely by numbers doesnt tell the whole story of a player. he wasnt great, but he wasnt bad either . the fact is you dont know crap about Zorn.

if he were that bad, Largent doesnt get into the HALL because i'm sure a half to a third of his balls came from Zorn.

Zorn was another of the select group of people in history that at least get a decent long term taste of athletic stardom. He did not suck.

 

[Nukleopatra]

So your saying I cant post on a forum...because Im debating/discussing a topic...

Get outta here if you dont have anything to add to the conversation.

You worthless.

You have to learn to never blame the quarterback, no matter how worthless he really was - Jim Zorn/Jim Miller/Crapson Palmer. See, when Dave Krieg took over mid season in '83, sure he was able to win more games, and put up better stats than Zorn was with the exact same team, but the team obviously had something against Zorn. Jim Zorn threw 7 TD passes in 8 games back in '83 - Dave Krieg threw 18 TDs in the same number of games that same season. It wasn't because Zorn sucked, seriously, it wasn't.

Ahh, well, it's not Zorn's fault, I guess.. By that time, he was 30 and his best years passed him by.

 

[Senser81]

Dont give a shit who he is, thanks. And Zorn wasnt mobile...I still to this day don't believe he was.

Why? What are you basing Zorn's alleged lack of mobility on? Or do you think an immobile QB could survive 8 years on an expansion team?

I didn't draw the conclusion from it, i simply stated a game that he did terrible in. Yeah...so I chose a bad game to decide it on. GTFOH with I lack factual knowledge and reasoning. The dude was not good.

And if you read the entire thread (Which obviously you lack the brains to read an entire paragraph and just like to dissect random statements to prove your point...) you would've realized I was talking about what nucleo was with Krieg coming in after 5 games in Seattle to send them to the playoffs.

Still makes no sense. You are still ignoring "all those games" you saw of Zorn in Seattle and basing your opinion of him on a 1985 Bears-Packers game. Even your 2nd paragraph, which actually talks about Seattle, really just talks about post-Zorn Seattle.

And LOL at comparing the 1983 Seahawks to the 1976 Seahawks. Krieg was better than Zorn at that time...so what?

I mess up the Dolphins starters in the 80s because I dont watch them (which I admitted)...they still had an extremely solid run game, which I was right on. That made Marino good.

Are you serious? You think the 1984 Dolphins were good because of their run game? I've heard some retarded stuff in this NFL section, but that takes the cake. First, you COMPLETELY mess up the timeline, saying that Mercury Morris played for the 1984 Dolphins. Second, after being called out, you stick to your guns and claim the run game of the 84 Fins made Marino.

Wow.

You can argue til your breath runs out...I still ain't leaving and Zorn was pretty bad...

He was 40-60 in 126 GS and 107 TDs and 133 INTs....201 sacks and a 67.9 passer rating...that's as good as rick mirer....

There's a point...speaking of bad O-Lines when Mirer was in Sea for 3 years, he amassed over 100 sacks on him...that's where id give benefit of the doubt to mobility.

I'm not trying to say Zorn is "good". I'm saying his best days were pre-1985, and his mobility made him a good fit for the expansion Seahawks.

 

[Senser81]

Does Largent need a good QB though? I know a lot of Hall of Fame WRs had great QBs....but when you think about how many times they passed/ran the ball, it's also a factor in my mind

HUH? WTF are you talking about? Did the synapses in your brain stop firing mid-post?

I am thinking about how many times the Seahawks passed/ran the ball on offense...amazingly, I figure the Seahawks passed/ran the ball on every play that wasn't a kicking play!! That indeed is a FACTOR in my mind, too.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

This is one of the worst threads i've ever seen in MM/VSN NFL/NCAA section history.

Total horrendous, baseless, and retarded arguments on all sides.

 

[Senser81]

This is one of the worst threads i've ever seen in MM/VSN NFL/NCAA section history.

Total horrendous, baseless, and retarded arguments on all sides.

Yes. Even with BBIB and Dr. P I could at least follow their argument, no matter how flawed it may be.

Big AD is on some type of medication which doesn't allow him to express himself in a coherent manner...I can't even say its a "stream of consciousness" deal, because I am questioning whether or not he is conscious when he posts...

I know a lot of Hall of Fame WRs had great QBs....but when you think about how many times they passed/ran the ball, it's also a factor in my mind

When did analyst Emmitt Smith start posting at VSN?

 

[Fox1994]

Zorn's career stats may look solid, but year by year, he didnt perform up to par.

The only reason he's still in the NFL is his arm had great mechanics. He had good accuracy. Yeah...so does Carson Palmer...and Matt Leinart...so does that make them solid players now? Palmer's stats say yes, but look at cincy as a whole and how he's led that team. There's so much more than his numbers involved. I saw him in a Seattle game because I was tryin to learn WR moves from Steve Largent and found out Largent's best move was turning and hoping Zorn wasnt sacked

I lol'd.

going purely by numbers doesnt tell the whole story of a player. he wasnt great, but he wasnt bad either . the fact is you dont know crap about Zorn.

if he were that bad, Largent doesnt get into the HALL because i'm sure a half to a third of his balls came from Zorn.

Zorn was another of the select group of people in history that at least get a decent long term taste of athletic stardom. He did not suck.

Please leave and never come back. This issue has already been addressed.

 

[Nukleopatra]

This is one of the worst threads i've ever seen in MM/VSN NFL/NCAA section history.

Total horrendous, baseless, and retarded arguments on all sides.

I think 95% of us caught onto that when we saw the thread title.

 

[Fox1994]

I think 95% of us caught onto that when we saw the thread title.

Next topic (very related):

Is Jim Zorn
A-Useless player
B-Useless coach
C-Both A and B?

Discuss

 

[MRN]

Worst drunken logic thread ive ever made...

Wait...no it isnt...

I used to have those moments when I ran SML once in awhile...ask Rush, he used to get online at night just to laugh at them.

If anything, you'll see these once in awhile...

What the / was meant more passes than rushes in a game...like i said, im getting used to posting on a forum again. You have a different set of lingo/typing than im used to...

:seeyou: