Lets get back to real NBA bball: 1993 Bulls-Knicks Game 2

[FedEx227]

So the NBA marketed Jo Jo English? Thats news to me.

...........When the did I say that?

 

[FedEx227]

For a while after the Jordan retirement the Western Conference Playoffs were the only thing worth watching in the NBA. The EC was shit during that time IMO. You could argue that even though Jordan's teams were so dominant that the WC was the stronger conference overall for parts of those Bulls runs. I think in some ways that was shown when Jordan leaves and the WC immedietly wins back to back titles.

Maybe my memory is off or my perception is wrong, but that's just the way I seem to remember it.

I remember watchign almsot every game of the Lakers WCF matchups during that time then barely watching the Finals because some weak ass EC squad made it through.

Didn't love those Kidd, Jefferson, K-Mart, Aaron Williams Nets squads?! ...They were awful.

 

[FirstTimer]

Didn't love those Kidd, Jefferson, K-Mart, Aaron Williams Nets squads?! ...They were awful.

uke:

 

[FedEx227]

uke:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMvk4qa9t5Q[/ame]

Forgot about Lucious Harris.

 

[Senser81]

...........When the did I say that?

Everyone hated the NBA in the early 2000s and the biggest thing I heard was because a) no more Jordan b) the most marketed players were "thugs" aka Allen Iverson.

You showed the Derek Harper-Jo Jo English fight as evidence to what you were referring to. I don't get the connection of the NBA marketing guys like Allen Iverson, Latrine Sprewell, Antoine Walker, etc. and a fight between Harper and Jo Jo English. The only way it would make sense would be if the NBA had marketed Jo Jo English (which they didn't).

 

[FedEx227]

Jesus christ...

I'm saying some people said they stopped watching the NBA because it became a "thug league" yet in the 80s and 90s there were some pretty gruesome fights, fouls and players that were 10 times worse then Allen Iverson wearing a throwback jersey and having cornrows.

My idea is nothing is more thug then the brand of hard-nosed basketball and fighting that occured in the 80s and 90s. I'm not saying Jo-Jo English was a thug, but if people are turned off by "thugs" why weren't they turned off by the type of behavior shown on the court during that era?

 

[FirstTimer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMvk4qa9t5Q

Forgot about Lucious Harris.

:hammer:

 

[Senser81]

Jesus christ...

I'm saying some people said they stopped watching the NBA because it became a "thug league" yet in the 80s and 90s there were some pretty gruesome fights, fouls and players that were 10 times worse then Allen Iverson wearing a throwback jersey and having cornrows.

My idea is nothing is more thug then the brand of hard-nosed basketball and fighting that occured in the 80s and 90s. I'm not saying Jo-Jo English was a thug, but if people are turned off by "thugs" why weren't they turned off by the type of behavior shown on the court during that era?

But I think there is a big difference between the NBA glorifying a "thug image" by allowing and proactively marketing people like Iverson and Sprewell, and Jo Jo English fighting with Derek Harper in 1994.

The NBA has always been identified with their top players. If their top players are questionably-talented thugs like Kenyon Martin and their top teams are questionably-talented sloppers like the Spurs and Pistons, then the NBA is going to be perceived as being a thug league.

 

[ralaw]

Back then I'd say the league was better, but I'm really not sure why, because at times because of all the grabbing, pushing and shoving it made for ugly basketball, but it was still enjoyable to watch, because the stars were likeable enough to cover for it. Today’s stars are talented, but they aren't as likeable for several reasons that have to do with too much exposure, jealousy, and people’s nostalgia.

For the most part though IMO people are drastically more critical of players today than they were of the 90's stars. Jordan routinely would go 10-25+ and no one would blink an eye, but when a player does it today he isn't clutch, is overrated, etc. In game 3 LeBron James was a facilitator, DWade was going off and the Heat won, yet all people could talk about was that James only had 17 points while forgetting he also had 9 assist. We use to just let the stars be who and what they were and we let them become, but since Jordan came along everyone is compared to Jordan's extremely high standard and because of that people have become too critical.

We no longer let players develop into the types of players they are and we criticize them when they aren’t like Jordan, but we then criticize them even more when we compare them to Jordan. This is why any elite wing player should try to distance themselves from Jordan’s aura as fast as they can, because it’s a lose/lose situation.

 

[FirstTimer]

Back then I'd say the league was better, but I'm really not sure why, because at times because of all the grabbing, pushing and shoving it made for ugly basketball, but it was still enjoyable to watch, because the stars were likeable enough to cover for it. Today’s stars are talented, but they aren't as likeable for several reasons that have to do with too much exposure, jealousy, and people’s nostalgia.

For the most part though IMO people are drastically more critical of players today than they were of the 90's stars. Jordan routinely would go 10-25+ and no one would blink an eye, but when a player does it today he isn't clutch, is overrated, etc. In game 3 LeBron James was a facilitator, DWade was going off and the Heat won, yet all people could talk about was that James only had 17 points while forgetting he also had 9 assist. We use to just let the stars be who and what they were and we let them become, but since Jordan came along everyone is compared to Jordan's extremely high standard and because of that people have become too critical.

We no longer let players develop into the types of players they are and we criticize them when they aren’t like Jordan, but we then criticize them even more when we compare them to Jordan. This is why any elite wing player should try to distance themselves from Jordan’s aura as fast as they can, because it’s a lose/lose situation.

I really don't know how true that is.

Jordan was a career 50% shooter from the field and shot barely under that in the playoffs. I fidn it hard to believe that he would routinely go 10-25 and still have a career shooting percentage that high. We overlooked those bad shooting games by Jordan because he usually ended up lighting it back up near or over 50% at some point for the rest of the playoffs.

 

[ralaw]

I really don't know how true that is.

Jordan was a career 50% shooter from the field and shot barely under that in the playoffs. I fidn it hard to believe that he would routinely go 10-25 and still have a career shooting percentage that high. We overlooked those bad shooting games by Jordan because he usually ended up lighting it back up near or over 50% at some point for the rest of the playoffs.

You might be right, but the point is that he would have those types of games and no one would say a word. If the Jordan of then had to to be compared to the expectations of the aura of Jordan now people would criticize him.

 

[FirstTimer]

You might be right, but the point is that he would have those types of games and no one would say a word. If the Jordan of then had to to be compared to the expectations of the aura of Jordan now people would criticize him.

I'm sure you could dig and find articles about Jordan having bad games but I think Jordan would get passes for some bad shooting games because he'd have runs in entire post seasons of shooting over 51%.

Holding any player to Jordan's standard is more than a bit unfair, especially if the player hasn't gone out of his way to make the comparison himself.

Just as a comparison Jordan was a 48% shooter in the Finals....

In his first three Finals: 54% from the field..................

 

[Esjay]

I enjoyed the NBA a little more back then also, the Pacers were good and had rivalries with other good teams (Chicago, New York). I grew up with that era of NBA players.

I still watch today and am a fan, but college basketball is where it's at for me now.

 

[NAHSTE]

Who said that?



Hey man, I don't watch NASCAR but I'm not going to ignore how popular it is.

If by popular, you mean not popular at all, then sure. NASCAR was growing slightly 5 or 6 years ago but all momentum has stalled and even traditional fans are starting to lose interest.

A good friend of mine works for the NASCAR marketing dept. of ESPN and tells me that the sport is basically flatlining ratings/fanbase wise. He grew up in North Carolina and knows everything about the sport and even he admits it's borderline unwatchable.

So in short, what the fuck are you talking about?

 

[Senser81]

To be honest, NASCAR was more interesting when it was a fringe sport consisting of Southern rednecks beating each other up after the race. Now its just another bland, corporate sporting event with no soul.

 

[Liquidrob]

To be honest, NASCAR was more interesting when it was a fringe sport consisting of Southern rednecks beating each other up after the race. Now its just another bland, corporate sporting event with no soul.

I enjoyed watching when they were running alcohol during the prohibition days

 

[spiker]

If by popular, you mean not popular at all, then sure. NASCAR was growing slightly 5 or 6 years ago but all momentum has stalled and even traditional fans are starting to lose interest.

A good friend of mine works for the NASCAR marketing dept. of ESPN and tells me that the sport is basically flatlining ratings/fanbase wise. He grew up in North Carolina and knows everything about the sport and even he admits it's borderline unwatchable.

So in short, what the fuck are you talking about?

I still say it's more popular than NBA basketball today and it doesn't matter if it's lost momentum since interest in the NBA isn't growing either. It's not hard to understand - NASCAR is more popular than the NBA. Fucking hell. See my post with the Harris poll that was taken over the course of two decades, for fucks sake.

 

[NAHSTE]

I still say it's more popular than NBA basketball today and it doesn't matter if it's lost momentum since interest in the NBA isn't growing either. It's not hard to understand - NASCAR is more popular than the NBA. Fucking hell. See my post with the Harris poll that was taken over the course of two decades, for fucks sake.

Um, no.

There's no way in hell that NASCAR is more popular than the NBA. As for your Harris poll about which is your favorite sport, it's called selection bias. If you ask every responder of the poll to rank the sports from 1 to 5, NBA would easily finish higher than NASCAR. However, NASCAR fans are more likely to choose that as their favorite sport in a one-answer poll than a fan of NBA, MLB and NFL is to name the NBA over the other two.

Even a cursory glance at merch sales, television ratings, online page views or any other revenue figures would tell you quite plainly that NASCAR is still nowhere near the level of popularity as the major sports.

 

[spiker]

Jesus fucking christ, I give up. The NBA is the best sport in the fucking world. Nobody watches NASCAR. Happy?

 

[stevsta]

Nobody watches NASCAR. Happy?

::yep: