Maddux, Glavine, Thomas to HOF

[NAHSTE]

Alright, who wants to take this one?

 

[Slateman]

I'll never get Jack Morris never making HOF. He only won when it mattered.

 

[ThomasTomasz]

I agree with Mussina's numbers being better than Glavine's, but Glavine has the sexier numbers: 300 wins, 5 20 win seasons, Cy Young. Plus, he was part of one of the great rotations of all-time. For me, it was pretty much a forgone conclusion that he was going in. Since I was really worried Mussina might actually fall off the ballot, I'll take the 20% for now. Hopefully, he'll get a healthy bump next year, though I still don't expect him to make it. It should happen for him shortly after that.

Let me correct myself. It should have already happened for him, but since I knew it wouldn't, within the next few years won't bother me too much.

I'm actually worried about him dropping off the ballot next year with Johnson and Martinez hopping on the ballot, and Schilling still on it.

Funny, this is about the only possible thing that Orioles and Yankees fans can agree upon.

 

[dave]

Alright, who wants to take this one?

OK, Mr. Expert, why doesn't Morris deserve the call?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

OK, Mr. Expert, why doesn't Morris deserve the call?

Because he's not a great pitcher?

3.90 ERA. 105 adjusted ERA. Very mediocre, that means only 5% better than his contemporaries. If i'm not mistaken, that would be the highest ERA in the HOF. No Cy Young's. He was supposedly the preeminent workhorse of his era, which his supporters cling to, and while he was very durable and very much a workhorse, he only led the league in innings pitched once & CG's once, so he was hardly ahead of the pack in that regard for his time. Only led the league once in K's and had a sub 6.0 K/9 rate for his career.

His rep as a "big game" pitcher is very overrated. Seven of his 13 postseason starts were pretty shitty. 7-4, 3.80 postseason ERA falls pretty much in line with his regular season numbers.

Three 20 win season, 254 wins, 5 top five Cy Young finishes, and one epic WS start are his best arguments. Is that enough to make him an all time, elite, Hall of Fame level pitcher? Not for me. He was pretty damn good, and a guy who could take a slot in my rotation any time. Not a Hall of Famer.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Morris is also 143 in WAR among SP's, behind guys like Carlos Zambrano, Roy Oswalt, Javier Vasquez, Bartolo Colon, etc who are all good pitchers but are not sniffing the Hall of Fame. He's also behind Ron Guidry, who pitched like half as many full seasons, and WAR is a cumulative stat.

Guidry was a BAMF who was way way better at his peak, was better overall in the postseason with three dominant CG's himself. Guidry never cracked 9%, and I wouldn't vote for him either because he lacks longevity, but you can bet your ass he'd be in my rotation before Morris.

 

[Jayrock]

I find it retarded that the roid guys aren't going to get in.

 

[dell71]

Morris is also 143 in WAR among SP's, behind guys like Carlos Zambrano, Roy Oswalt, Javier Vasquez, Bartolo Colon, etc who are all good pitchers but are not sniffing the Hall of Fame. He's also behind Ron Guidry, who pitched like half as many full seasons, and WAR is a cumulative stat.

Guidry was a BAMF who was way way better at his peak, was better overall in the postseason with three dominant CG's himself. Guidry never cracked 9%, and I wouldn't vote for him either because he lacks longevity, but you can bet your ass he'd be in my rotation before Morris.

Thanked for the Guidry love.

 

[NAHSTE]

Three 20 win season, 254 wins, 5 top five Cy Young finishes, and one epic WS start are his best arguments. Is that enough to make him an all time, elite, Hall of Fame level pitcher? Not for me. He was pretty damn good, and a guy who could take a slot in my rotation any time. Not a Hall of Famer.

Here's the talking point that the Morris supporters at my office were pounding: "Name a better pitcher who pitched entirely in the AL in the post-DH 1980s."

Then someone else interrupted and offered, "it's either him or Dave Stieb"

Then I went
:walker:

and
:forgetit:

 

[Slateman]

Did they completely toss out Dan Le Batard's ballot? Does that mean that Biggio missed by one vote?