NBA Offseason thread

[Xixak]

People are probably gonna rage like idiots over this, he deserves it. Best PG in the league in a few years.

 

[Argath]

People are probably gonna rage like idiots over this, he deserves it. Best PG in the league in a few years.

I'm a huge Wizards/Wall fan but this statement is pretty damn ignorant. Wall has to work on his shot and ball control to cut down on turnovers before he can be even considered. Then he actually has to perform at that level for a couple of seasons at least. He's got a long way to go

 

[FedEx227]

People are probably gonna rage like idiots over this, he deserves it. Best PG in the league in a few years.

This is assuming Steph Curry, Derrick Rose, Chris Paul, Kyrie Irving, Russell Westbrook and Tony Parker all die in a plane crash together, right?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

People are probably gonna rage like idiots over this, he deserves it. Best PG in the league in a few years.

VSN is a lot of things, but when you toss out a sports opinion on this site, the vultures here will pick the bones if you can't back it up.

Attempt to defend this, i'm willing to listen.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Cmon now guys, consider the source...

 

[Xixak]

I'm a huge Wizards/Wall fan but this statement is pretty damn ignorant. Wall has to work on his shot and ball control to cut down on turnovers before he can be even considered. Then he actually has to perform at that level for a couple of seasons at least. He's got a long way to go

So does Kyrie not need to do this? He turns it over just as much while doing a worse job of setting up his team-mates.

 

[Argath]

So does Kyrie not need to do this? He turns it over just as much while doing a worse job of setting up his team-mates.

:joker:

I never mentioned anything about Kyrie. What is your point?

 

[Xixak]

This is assuming Steph Curry, Derrick Rose, Chris Paul, Kyrie Irving, Russell Westbrook and Tony Parker all die in a plane crash together, right?

Aside from CP3 who is clearly the best PG right now, but by the time Wall hits his prime I think he'll be better than CP who will be declining at that point.

- Wall is a better defender than all of those guys (Parker, Curry and Irving aren't even in the same league in that category)
- None of them except maybe Parker do a better job of running an offense and setting up scoring opportunities for teammates
- Only Westbrook gets to the FT Line better, and that's only because he shoots the ball a ton
- Granted he is the worst shooter out of the group, but that is the easier to improve than defensive/passing instincts

I know basically nobody agrees with me but if you asked me to pick one PG right now to have on my team for the next 10 years I pick Wall

 

[Argath]

Aside from CP3 who is clearly the best PG right now, but by the time Wall hits his prime I think he'll be better than CP who will be declining at that point.

- Wall is a better defender than all of those guys (Parker, Curry and Irving aren't even in the same league in that category)
- None of them except maybe Parker do a better job of running an offense and setting up scoring opportunities for teammates
- Only Westbrook gets to the FT Line better, and that's only because he shoots the ball a ton
- Granted he is the worst shooter out of the group, but that is the easier to improve than defensive/passing instincts

I know basically nobody agrees with me but if you asked me to pick one PG right now to have on my team for the next 10 years I pick Wall

Glad to know you have no idea who Derrick Rose is.

 

[Xixak]

:joker:

I never mentioned anything about Kyrie. What is your point?

Here's my point. Of the PGs that people say are better than Wall, only the following have a better Ast/TO ratio:

- CP3
- Deron williams
- Tony Parker

All of those guys are veterans who will be declining when he hits his prime. That's my point. His turnovers aren't an issue.

 

[Argath]

Here's my point. Of the PGs that people say are better than Wall, only the following have a better Ast/TO ratio:

- CP3
- Deron williams
- Tony Parker

All of those guys are veterans who will be declining when he hits his prime. That's my point. His turnovers aren't an issue.

His turnovers are an issue and if you think otherwise you've never watched a game of basketball. His turnovers kill momentum. He tries to force things too much and needs to let the game come to him. His assists are inflated due to the Wizards have no other ball handler and the entire team is either back to the basket or spot up shooters. There are no players that can create their own shot.

John Wall certainly has the physical tools to become one of, if not the, best PG in the NBA. However, he has a shit ton of learning left to do and it's simply not going to be done in a few years. For him to be considered the best PG in a few years, he would have to be the best PG this year, next year and more years going forward. One good year is not going to give him consideration for best in the league.

 

[Xixak]

His turnovers are an issue and if you think otherwise you've never watched a game of basketball. His turnovers kill momentum. He tries to force things too much and needs to let the game come to him. His assists are inflated due to the Wizards have no other ball handler and the entire team is either back to the basket or spot up shooters. There are no players that can create their own shot.

John Wall certainly has the physical tools to become one of, if not the, best PG in the NBA. However, he has a shit ton of learning left to do and it's simply not going to be done in a few years. For him to be considered the best PG in a few years, he would have to be the best PG this year, next year and more years going forward. One good year is not going to give him consideration for best in the league.

Ok I think we're actually in agreement here. I don't think people are gonna say in 2 or 3 years John Wall is clearcut the #1 PG (like they do for CP3), but I think by age 25 he'll be playing like it, and when he hits CP3's current age it'll be a league-wide consensus.

You put a jumper on Wall and clean-up his decision making a bit while also improving the team around him, and you've got the best PG in the league.

EDIT: And when I said his turnovers aren't an issue I meant he doesn't really turn it over at that high of a rate compared to other star PGs right now anyway, and he can still improve on it.

 

[FedEx227]

Aside from CP3 who is clearly the best PG right now, but by the time Wall hits his prime I think he'll be better than CP who will be declining at that point.

- Wall is a better defender than all of those guys (Parker, Curry and Irving aren't even in the same league in that category)

DefRTG
Wall: 101.1
Parker: 97.6
Curry: 106.2
Irving: 107.7

Parker is just as good and better by DefRTG. This is of course continuing to ignore Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook (99.6)

- None of them except maybe Parker do a better job of running an offense and setting up scoring opportunities for teammates

Cool? That doesn't make him a better PG unless of course we're doing the ole "I only count PGs that don't try to score!" despite the fact that Paul and Parker do score a lot AND set up guys and it's stupid to discredit a scoring PG but whatever.

- Granted he is the worst shooter out of the group, but that is the easier to improve than defensive/passing instincts

How long are we going to wait for Wall to find out how to shoot? I think that's a piss poor example for someone his age and with as much experience as he has now. It took Rose two years to really learn how to shoot. When is this magically Renaissance of shooting from Wall happening?

Red is below average. Yellow is average. Green is above average.

 

[FedEx227]

You put a jumper on Wall and clean-up his decision making a bit while also improving the team around him, and you've got the best PG in the league.

Oh, that's all?

Make him a better shooter, smarter, better at basketball and give him a good team and he'll be great! SO SIMPLE!

 

[Xixak]

DefRTG
Wall: 101.1
Parker: 97.6
Curry: 106.2
Irving: 107.7

Parker is just as good and better by DefRTG. This is of course continuing to ignore Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook (99.6)

Do you even know how to use DefRTG? Being on a better defensive team is going to result in you having a better rating most of the time. Trying to say Parker is a better defender than Wall is silly.

Cool? That doesn't make him a better PG unless of course we're doing the ole "I only count PGs that don't try to score!" despite the fact that Paul and Parker do score a lot AND set up guys and it's stupid to discredit a scoring PG but whatever.

What...? Wall is by all accounts a score-first PG although not to the same extent as Rose/Westbrook.

How long are we going to wait for Wall to find out how to shoot? I think that's a piss poor example for someone his age and with as much experience as he has now. It took Rose two years to really learn how to shoot. When is this magically Renaissance of shooting from Wall happening?

Red is below average. Yellow is average. Green is above average.

Not every player has the same learning curve as a shooter. Rip Hamilton for example shot < 30% combined his first 5 years then became a 40% 3PT shooter. Shooting of course is the biggest caveat for Wall becoming #1, and it's about whether he's going to put the time in to get proficient at it. I think he will.

 

[Xixak]

I'm not gonna continue this argument. I put it in my sig, let's see who's right.

 

[FedEx227]

I don't think you realize how DefRTG works. It uses team points allowed per 100 possessions while Player X is on the court. Over the course of the year and the large sample size of the year, it largely separates individual players unless a team employs the exact same lineup for the same amount of minutes every single game. Until Grinnell gets into the NBA that's not going to happen. Don't call me silly for saying it, get mad at the NBA and their well researched statistics for saying it.

The score-first vs. "setting up his teammates" part I don't really understand what tangible point you're making. I know Wall is score-first, which is why I don't understand your point that he sets guys up more.

Also, there's nothing in any metric that says Wall sets his teammates up better than anyone else. It's a vague, baseless way of judging a group of players. It's completely subjective. It's the same tripe that comes up when people want to discredit Westbrook for not "setting up guys". It's not always direct passes that sets up guys, it's floor spacing, creating space, drawing double teams, etc.

 

[JimLeavy59]

Why not wait a year to extend Wall?

 

[FedEx227]

I'm not gonna continue this argument. I put it in my sig, let's see who's right.

I have sigs turned off, what's the bet here?

John Wall best PG in the league in how many years? The rest of us take the "field"?

 

[Argath]

Why not wait a year to extend Wall?

Simple. Our GM is Ernie Grunfield.