Peyton Manning possibly out for the year?

[tigstah]

wow another surgery. might as well put him on ir now. get it over with.

 

[MmmmBeeeeer]

C'mon Kerry Collins

 

[killgod]

It means Peyton carries the team on his back doe. How is he not better? Brady was good under a superb coaching staff. (and cheats) Peyton carried a super bowl winning team by himself.

Measuring the difference between an individual and the rest of his team isn't an ideal way to compare him to another player.

Peyton was carried to the Super Bowl by a surprising defensive performance that was driven by Dungy. He did not deserve the MVP in the SB either, Rhodes got fuckin robbed.

 

[tigstah]

C'mon Kerry Collins

wow, dude was on the lazy boy, with remote in hand. now he is the starting qb of the colts. not a bad gig if ya can get it.

 

[KINGOFOOTBALL]

I don't think the legend of Tom Brady was diminished with Matt Cassell's 11-5 season.

It did.

Easy to say that now when your team sucks. lol

Comparing the value of the QB to a shitty team doesn't make him better than the QB on a better team. More "VALUE" to their team, doesn't mean "better player".

You must have missed every player vs player argument where people think thats all that matters. Being good on a lesser team for some stupid reason gives you a +15 in rating. I agree its utterly stupid.

I don't think the 11-5 reflected poorly because Cassell just managed the games and was coached well. The total team was still good and I think that's all that was proven. Who's to say that with Brady they don't win 14-15 games that season?

It's not like Wayne/Clark aren't good players still, I would still expect them to perform under any QB...just more so from an elite one.

I don't think if the Colts were to still get production from those good players it makes Manning look bad.

With Brady it does. Thats how they won SBs. Not with his arm. By him Casseling it all the way. Ever since Brady has been the focal point they havent won one. Putting all the emphasis on one guy then having his backup lead the team to that record shows that player is replaceable and nowhere near as important as touted.

Manning is a legend, in the GOAT discussion. There's nothing this season is going to show that will alter that in any way IMO.

It can. If Scrub Painter goes out and tosses 39 tds and 12 picks you dont think it diminishes Peyton ??

If Collins and Painter lead the Colts to a 0-9 start you dont think Peytons legacy grows with every defeat ??

Im not talking about comparing player A to B then talking surrounding talent...that what if shit is retarded 99% of the time.

Im talking about Apples to Apples comparison of how a team functions without an individual. Brady was NOT the focal point of that team when they won SBs. His individual success after the Def fell off masks that. He was the focal point when Cassel took over and it showed that team isnt dependent on him and he isnt as important as people want to think.

Manning has won being the focal point and if this team succeeds without him you have to give the system a ton of credit which will take away from his legacy. Your not a great player if your easily replaceable period. Your just a cog at that point. A nice shiny one but a cog none the less.

You can now easily argue Brady is a product of great circumstance. Theres alot of evidence to suggest it.

If they Colts cant win games that argument is moot and theres little you can say to take away from Mannings greatness which people always try and do.


You think Tony Romos stock didnt drop with Kitna doing so well replacing him ?

You think guys like Bob Sanders , Albert Haynseworth circa 2006-2007 werent immeasurably exulted when there units stunk up the place without them , then played elite with them ?

 

[FirstTimer]

You think guys like Bob Sanders , Albert Haynseworth circa 2006-2007 werent immeasurably exulted when there units stunk up the place without them , then played elite with them ?

Same with the Bears defense whenever Urlacher has been hurt.

 

[Aso]

When the Colts won with Peyton Manning being the focal point, in the playoffs he was as mediocre as it got. Did the defense playing as well as they did diminish Peyton's career any? Manning didn't win the Superbowl with any clutch drive, he didn't win it with any 120 QB rating. Nothing like that. Aside from a blown coverage the Colts beat the Bears with defense and a running game.

 

[killgod]

It did.

It shouldn't and in my mind it didn't for Brady like it won't for Manning.

Cassel has proven in KC he's a decent player because he's continued to replicate what he did in that year in NE. How is Cassel actually being the same QB in NE as KC a knock against Brady? It doesn't work. If Cassel were to be complete shit in KC then you have an argument, but that didn't happen.

With Brady it does. Thats how they won SBs. Not with his arm. By him Casseling it all the way. Ever since Brady has been the focal point they havent won one. Putting all the emphasis on one guy then having his backup lead the team to that record shows that player is replaceable and nowhere near as important as touted.

I do agree that Superbowls were not won by Brady's dominance, but it's not as if he played poorly. He did (deservedly) earn MVP in 2 of those games. He was a game manager in 2001, no doubt. In 2003? He played quite well in the playoffs and in 2004 he was the BEST QB in the playoffs. So to say he 'Cassel'd" it during the Super Bowl runs is simply not true.

Also, diminishing a player's importance to a team doesn't change the skill or ability of that player.

It can. If Scrub Painter goes out and tosses 39 tds and 12 picks you dont think it diminishes Peyton ??

No I don't. One year wonders are not new to the NFL. If Painter came in and made a career out of it, then you have an argument but if he does it for just one year then you can compare him to seasons like McMahon in 85 or Beuerlein in 99.

And again, Painter's success doesn't change the incredible accomplishments of Manning. Does Aaron Rodgers success in Green Bay diminsh anything Brett Favre ever did?

If Collins and Painter lead the Colts to a 0-9 start you dont think Peytons legacy grows with every defeat ??

His legend is made. You can argue his value even more to the Colts organization but how does their play in the first 9 weeks of 2011 change Manning's accomplishments or ability?

Brady was NOT the focal point of that team when they won SBs.

He was still a very important part and contributed to the success. I've already proven this point to be weaker than you're making it out to be.

His individual success after the Def fell off masks that. He was the focal point when Cassel took over and it showed that team isnt dependent on him and he isnt as important as people want to think.

What is being masked? Him going 55/81 for 581yds 5TD and 0INT when they knocked off the Eagles? You have to fuckin mask that? C'mon. He was proven to be a quality QB before they went pass heavy. His 2nd, 3rd and 4th year are practically identical, 3700yds 28TD 14INT. Mask what exactly? Those are well beyond game manager stats. Those are Top 10 or better stats.

You're looking at it all the wrong way because you're acting as if Cassel is a terrible player. He's proven otherwise as he continues to repeat his NE numbers.

Manning has won being the focal point and if this team succeeds without him you have to give the system a ton of credit which will take away from his legacy. Your not a great player if your easily replaceable period. Your just a cog at that point. A nice shiny one but a cog none the less.

Brady took a team that Bledsoe couldn't do anything with to a Superbowl, right off the bench with no experience. Every player on a football team is a cog because no team wins on solely one player. If that was truth then what the fuck do you call the Colts SB run when they practically won in spite of his play? Manning's rating was worse than Grossman's.

So how can Brady be a cog and Manning not?

How is Favre not a cog now that Rodgers is doing the same?

C'mon.

You can now easily argue Brady is a product of great circumstance. Theres alot of evidence to suggest it.

There's also alot of holes in your evidence.

 

[MrBill]

How is Favre not a cog now that Rodgers is doing the same?

Must resist 5 paragraph response since I don't think you actually believe that and are just trying to prove a point...lol

 

[MmmmBeeeeer]

When the Colts won with Peyton Manning being the focal point, in the playoffs he was as mediocre as it got. Did the defense playing as well as they did diminish Peyton's career any? Manning didn't win the Superbowl with any clutch drive, he didn't win it with any 120 QB rating. Nothing like that. Aside from a blown coverage the Colts beat the Bears with defense and a running game.

I agree with you on that.

I refuse to beat the dead horse on the Brady vs. Manning argument though.

Of course I believe Manning is more valuable than Brady, but not by much. Brady seems to be a lot more consistent than Manning. I think Brady has the benefit of better coaching.

 

[PEYMAN18]

The Colts go 0-7 without Peyton.

Manning returns and takes them to 9-7 record and another AFC South crown (Because we all know the Texans will do shitall and remain 8-8)

The world is in awe as Manning carries the team to the Superbowl and wins glouriously. As he celebrates the football gods swoop down and take him to join them.

And so, the tale of Peyton Manning ends.

 

[EmpireWF]

The Colts go 0-7 without Peyton.

Manning returns and takes them to 9-7 record and another AFC South crown (Because we all know the Texans will do shitall and remain 8-8)

The world is in awe as Manning carries the team to the Superbowl and wins glouriously. As he celebrates the football gods swoop down and take him to join them.

And so, the tale of Peyton Manning ends.

Disney wouldn't even want that shit.

 

[MmmmBeeeeer]

The Colts go 0-7 without Peyton.

Manning returns and takes them to 9-7 record and another AFC South crown (Because we all know the Texans will do shitall and remain 8-8)

The world is in awe as Manning carries the team to the Superbowl at Lucas Oil Stadium and wins glouriously. As he celebrates the football gods swoop down and take him to join them.

And so, the tale of Peyton Manning ends.

Revised your story. That would validate all of the road/building/landscape/monument construction that has been going on for the last 2 years in preparation for the Super Bowl.

 

[Bear Pand]

When the Colts won with Peyton Manning being the focal point, in the playoffs he was as mediocre as it got. Did the defense playing as well as they did diminish Peyton's career any? Manning didn't win the Superbowl with any clutch drive, he didn't win it with any 120 QB rating. Nothing like that. Aside from a blown coverage the Colts beat the Bears with defense and a running game.

It highlighted a mistake the Colts had been making for years. Not putting together a solid D and run game, instead putting it all on Peyton's shoulders.

Hopefully with no Manning this year they'll finally learn their lesson.

Also the comeback against the Pats probably helps offset things.

 

[LC AAU]

:yeah:

 

[ThunderHorse]

Also the comeback against the Pats probably helps offset things.

That was a great game.

 

[shag773]

I'll never understand when a Brady-Manning argument breaks out they need to shit on one of them to try and make a case. I don't care which side you're on, diminishing what either player has done or meant to their team is laughable.

For me, it's all about the hardware. Brady's 4 super bowl appearances and 3 rings trumps Manning's 2 super bowl appearances and 1 championship. Anyone that says Brady anything less than a huge contributer to those championships either has an axe to grind or has no idea what their talking about.

One example I'll give is Belichick's coaching record without Brady, which is 55-60 (includes 2008 w/ Cassel) with 1 playoff appearance, which was not with Cassel.

 

[Senser81]

When the Colts won with Peyton Manning being the focal point, in the playoffs he was as mediocre as it got. Did the defense playing as well as they did diminish Peyton's career any? Manning didn't win the Superbowl with any clutch drive, he didn't win it with any 120 QB rating. Nothing like that. Aside from a blown coverage the Colts beat the Bears with defense and a running game.

LOL at this.

In the AFC Championship game, Manning led the Colts to 38 points and had 349 yards and a TD. In the Super Bowl, Manning threw for 247 yards and a TD in a rainstorm (and was MVP).

In his most recent Super Bowl, Manning threw for 333 yards and a TD (preceded by a 377 yard, 3 TD performance in the AFC Championship game).

Brady threw for 145 yards, 236 yards, and 354 yards in his Super Bowls.

Manning's 333-yard performance against the Saints is higher than 17 of Tom Brady's 19 postseason games.

Manning's postseason QB rating is higher than Brady's.

 

[GoChargers]

Another Brady vs Manning discussion?? Doesn't matter, one will retire in a couple years and neither will win another ring.

For the record - Brady's 3 rings gives him the nod.

 

[killgod]

actually other than a couple posts at the end this wasn't a Brady vs Manning discussion.

It was about their value to their teams and just how much success was because of them or the teams they play on.