Strikeforce: Melendez vs. Healy *CANCELLED*

[EmpireWF]

lol, they took what? Like 4 or 5 guys? I wouldn't say they raided their roster, but even if they did that's not really what I'm getting at. I thought it was funny that when the UFC cancels a show due to injuries the reason is "they put on too many shows", "people get hurt so often because of the amount of shows". Here we have Strikeforce who hardly runs any shows and people are still getting hurt and a show was cancelled. So that debunks too many shows being the blame, it's also funny how the Strikeforce cancelling has turned into the UFC's fault as well. UFC has nothing to do with this.

Allow me to explain how you are wrong Mamba...

151 was canceled and the blame for running to many shows was not because of the injury to Hendo. It was because they can have a major PPV with such a shitty card besides the 1 main event. Running too many shows with not enough big draws, if one fight falls apart, they resort to canceling the whole thing because the rest of the card is so lackluster.

With Strikeforce, the knock is not about running too many shows (duh) but the simple fact that they just don't have much in the way of name fighters anymore for a number of reasons (1. UFC signed away Overeem, Diaz, Hendo, 2. they don't invest much in signing talent anymore, etc.). The bulk of their name fighters are fighting in November (Cormier, Rockhold) and Ronda Rousey is the biggest TV draw of them all. Aside from Melendez, who else is there?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Nah, I've been on a roll lately, only 3 days this time.




lol, they took what? Like 4 or 5 guys? I wouldn't say they raided their roster, but even if they did that's not really what I'm getting at. I thought it was funny that when the UFC cancels a show due to injuries the reason is "they put on too many shows", "people get hurt so often because of the amount of shows". Here we have Strikeforce who hardly runs any shows and people are still getting hurt and a show was cancelled. So that debunks too many shows being the blame, it's also funny how the Strikeforce cancelling has turned into the UFC's fault as well. UFC has nothing to do with this.

Guys aren't getting hurt because there are too many shows. The cards are thin because there are too many shows. Thus, when fighters do get hurt, thin cards get even thinner, and in the case of 151, end up being cancelled because the rest of the card can't sustain itself.

Dana used to rip the boxing model for this, and now he's the one promoting one fight shows.

You say they only took 4 or 5 guys, but that's not true. They took an entire division! Plus Diaz, arguably the biggest star before Rousey emerged. Plus Hendo. Put the entire heavyweight division back in SF, plus all of the other fighters who they poached, and I doubt Showtime refuses to air the show if Gil gets hurt because there would still be some star power on the card.

That's another thing that bugs me. This has nothing to do with you, Mamba. But I see people on the internet saying "well, Zuffa didn't cancel the show, Showtime did". Showtime didn't cancel anything. They just decided to not air it because the card they were presented with was shit. Then Zuffa decided to cancel it. Showtime cant cancel anything, they arent the promoter. Zuffa could have aired it on facebook or at least ran the show live for the people who bought tickets. They chose not too.

So in the last two months, Jon Jones & Showtime cancelled shows. Its never Zuffa. lol.

 

[Liquidrob]

Strikeforce's best division was the HW division, they took everyone besides Cormier and Barnett, also released Fedor and Sergei, Werdum, Lavar, SDR, The FB from LSU, THE REEM all in the UFC

Hendo the LHW champ, Diaz the WW champ, they crippled SF, stopped running all challenger shows also which SF did a lot of

They destroyed SF

 

[Steel Mamba]

Lol @ mamba trying to make a point, he will be back in two weeks with a follow up

Allow me to explain how you are wrong Mamba...

151 was canceled and the blame for running to many shows was not because of the injury to Hendo. It was because they can have a major PPV with such a shitty card besides the 1 main event. Running too many shows with not enough big draws, if one fight falls apart, they resort to canceling the whole thing because the rest of the card is so lackluster.

With Strikeforce, the knock is not about running too many shows (duh) but the simple fact that they just don't have much in the way of name fighters anymore for a number of reasons (1. UFC signed away Overeem, Diaz, Hendo, 2. they don't invest much in signing talent anymore, etc.). The bulk of their name fighters are fighting in November (Cormier, Rockhold) and Ronda Rousey is the biggest TV draw of them all. Aside from Melendez, who else is there?

W2B made a point about 151 and how too many shows were being done which led to injuries. So it was both arguments being made. The UFC grabbing fighters is irrelevant here, because to my knowledge they didn't take any 155ers. So either way they wouldn't have had anyone name worthy to take that fight and maybe make it an interim contest.

 

[Steel Mamba]

Guys aren't getting hurt because there are too many shows.

lol you guys aren't even remembering your own arguments anymore. But, I'm glad we're on the same page now!

 

[Steel Mamba]

Guys aren't getting hurt because there are too many shows. The cards are thin because there are too many shows. Thus, when fighters do get hurt, thin cards get even thinner, and in the case of 151, end up being cancelled because the rest of the card can't sustain itself.

Dana used to rip the boxing model for this, and now he's the one promoting one fight shows.

You say they only took 4 or 5 guys, but that's not true. They took an entire division! Plus Diaz, arguably the biggest star before Rousey emerged. Plus Hendo. Put the entire heavyweight division back in SF, plus all of the other fighters who they poached, and I doubt Showtime refuses to air the show if Gil gets hurt because there would still be some star power on the card.

That's another thing that bugs me. This has nothing to do with you, Mamba. But I see people on the internet saying "well, Zuffa didn't cancel the show, Showtime did". Showtime didn't cancel anything. They just decided to not air it because the card they were presented with was shit. Then Zuffa decided to cancel it. Showtime cant cancel anything, they arent the promoter. Zuffa could have aired it on facebook or at least ran the show live for the people who bought tickets. They chose not too.

So in the last two months, Jon Jones & Showtime cancelled shows. Its never Zuffa. lol.

No, you're right I just didn't word that correctly. Zuffa cancelled it, but is it their fault it had to be cancelled? Idk, I don't really blame anyone and I don't see cancelled cards as that big of a deal, especially for ones that really haven't even been marketed yet. FWIW Showtime could have just changed this to a Show Extreme card and aired it that way.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

W2B made a point about 151 and how too many shows were being done which led to injuries. So it was both arguments being made. The UFC grabbing fighters is irrelevant here, because to my knowledge they didn't take any 155ers. So either way they wouldn't have had anyone name worthy to take that fight and maybe make it an interim contest.

lol you guys aren't even remembering your own arguments anymore. But, I'm glad we're on the same page now!

I never made that point, ever.

Also, UFC not taking any 155ers doesnt matter, the point is they raped the rest of the roster so there is nothing left on these Strikeforce undercards. Had this happened two years ago, they would have just scrapped the main event and bumped the semi up a spot. Supposedly Showtime pays seven figures to license these shows, they weren't going to air the thrash they were left with.

 

[Liquidrob]

They also haven't signed new talent and have been leaving fighters on the shelf and did they even contact anyone to fill in? They brought this on themselves once again, they didn't care if it was cancelled and the MMA media hasnt either because they buried there own promotion

Funny how this is zuffa's new trend

 

[Liquidrob]

Mamba doesnt even understand thats it a very similar issue, the UFC was cancelled because the card was weak because to many shows, the SF card wasnt weak because of to many shows, it was weak because the top talent is gone and they have nothing left in SF, the UFC only has a headliner because they run to mnay shows, SF only has a headliner because the talent is gone

 

[Steel Mamba]

I never made that point, ever.

Great post by DocG over on the Observer board on why more shows are, in a way, responsible for 'causing' injuries:

You posted that just earlier this month.

 

[Steel Mamba]

Mamba doesnt even understand thats it a very similar issue, the UFC was cancelled because the card was weak because to many shows, the SF card wasnt weak because of to many shows, it was weak because the top talent is gone and they have nothing left in SF, the UFC only has a headliner because they run to mnay shows, SF only has a headliner because the talent is gone

No, the only point I'm trying to make is that you can't blame injuries (even in the most remote way possible) on running too many cards. Which was an argument made in another thread. SF and the entire sport in general is evidence that injuries are going to occur and the fallout due to injuries will happen regardless of how many events a promotion is running.

 

[Liquidrob]

Again, zuffa cancelled the show because the card is weak, just like UFC 151, they didn't have to cancel, they did anyway

When you run shows based off 1 main fight this is what happens

The UFC has had mains fall through before and not cancel, there issue is to many cards and no good co, what are you argueing about?

 

[EmpireWF]

Again, zuffa cancelled the show because the card is weak, just like UFC 151, they didn't have to cancel, they did anyway

Showtime chose not to air the show because w/o the main event, it's a glorified challengers show. Zuffa canceled the show outright because without TV money, and the little gate money, what's the point to running a house show?

 

[Liquidrob]

Just because it didn't have Showtime doesn't mean it should be cancelled, if zuffa can't give showtime a good product then they shouldn't be running SF and shut it down already

Its ridiculous at this point

 

[EmpireWF]

Just because it didn't have Showtime doesn't mean it should be cancelled

If you can't make money, makes no sense to not cancel it.

 

[Liquidrob]

Point, missed and yes, zuffa cancelled the show, not showtime

 

[EmpireWF]

Point, missed and yes, zuffa cancelled the show, not showtime

Who said otherwise?

Just because it didn't have Showtime doesn't mean it should be cancelled

Nobody is running a show with no profit.

 

[RosettaStoned]

The UFC grabbing fighters is irrelevant here, because to my knowledge they didn't take any 155ers.

Are you retarded?

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

No, the only point I'm trying to make is that you can't blame injuries (even in the most remote way possible) on running too many cards. Which was an argument made in another thread. SF and the entire sport in general is evidence that injuries are going to occur and the fallout due to injuries will happen regardless of how many events a promotion is running.

No, you can not blame injuries on running too many shows.

But the effect of the injuries is magnified when you run too many shows. This is what you are missing.

151 does not get cancelled if they are running less shows, because not only would there are more viable fighters available to replace Henderson, but the card would be deeper to begin with and would be able to survive the lost fight anyway.

Zuffa was playing on thin ice by overextending themselves, and the ice finally broke with 151. Then a month later, they are cancelling a second show for slightly different reasons, but the same principle (weak one fight card lost when the main eventer pulls out).

Do you think either lesson will be a wake up call? Doesn't look like it.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

You posted that just earlier this month.

Right, that was some poster called "DocG" who had a theory that more shows, did in fact, cause more injury. I thought it was interesting and shared it.