• Rules and regulations here: http://www.virtualsportsnetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?133219-VSN-Secret-Santa-Donation-Drive-Raffle-Waffle-Maynard-is-Awful&p=2346085#post2346085
  • We have just launched a new VSN Amazon Store. This new store will allow you to order games (including PC downloads) and anything else you want from Amazon and help VSN out at the same time! You get the exact same deals and pre-order bonuses through our store front as you do from Amazon so please bookmark this link and use it when you are shopping at Amazon.com - [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/"][COLOR="#0000FF"][U]VSN Amazon Store[/U][/COLOR][/URL] Here are some direct links to pre-order the major upcoming titles- [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]PlayStation 4[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGA9WK2"]PlayStation 4 500GB Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HVBPRUO"]PlayStation 4 Gold Wireless Headset[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGA9X9W"]PlayStation 4 DualShock 4 Wireless Controller[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGAA3S2"]PlayStation 4 Camera[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DCBDNW6"]Final Fantasy XIV: A REALM REBORN[/URL] - April 14th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00J128FPA"]Final Fantasy XIV: A REALM REBORN Collectors Edition[/URL] - April 14th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IMVRVC4"]Trials Fusion[/URL] - April 15th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GG4BBUM"]MLB 14: The Show[/URL] - May 6th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DHF39KS"]Wolfenstein: The New Order[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BI83EVU"]Watch Dogs[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DYAQHTQ"]Watch Dogs Limited Edition[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00I0574EW"]Murdered Soul Suspect[/URL] - June 3rd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DHF39HQ"]The Elder Scrolls Online[/URL] - June 30th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGA9ZZ4"]Drive Club[/URL] - September 30th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GZ1GUSY"]Tomb Raider Definitive Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00H5V9S6E"]Rayman Legends - Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00C27SCC2"]Thief[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HD4R5YU"]Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGAA0SU"]inFAMOUS Second Son Limited Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FYIXMHQ"]inFAMOUS Second Son Collectors Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00D2ZK1IG"]Dying Light[/URL] [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]PlayStation 3[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00B0JALUE"]PlayStation 3 500GB Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00AEX81SG"]PlayStation 3 250GB Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GY4OAIE"]LEGO The Hobbit[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00I9UVY30"]FIFA 2014 World Cup Brazil[/URL] - April 15th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ICWO2ZW"]Darksiders Collection[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ICWO2P2"]Red Faction Collection[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HQY8LRM"]Rambo The Video Game[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FRESXSA"]The Amazing Spider-Man 2[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CPKUV98"]Wolfenstein: The New Order[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00J6DLPLK"]Drakengard 3[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGHUS58"]Watch Dogs[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DYAQHZ0"]Watch Dogs Collectors Edition[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BG6ZHK0"]Murdered: Soul Suspect[/URL] - June 3rd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IGHP28Y"]Transformers Rise of The Dark Spark[/URL] - June 24th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DNGQTFI"]Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Z[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00H4BBTCQ"]Tomb Raider - GOTY Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HNYWFMC"]Far Cry Compilation [/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00946FSIA"]Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HQY8LRM"]Rambo The Video Game[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FQFFPZO"]NASCAR '14[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DFT92MU"]Thief[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B0088MVP3S"]Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ECOBFCC"]The LEGO Movie Videogame[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B006IOAHPK"]South Park: The Stick of Truth[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FDQQD52"]South Park: The Stick of Truth Grand Wizard Edition [/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00F6YD2AK"]Dark Souls II Black Armor Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00F6YD2FK"]Dark Souls II Collectors Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GJSUUC0"]Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00E44EZYA"]Ultra Street Fighter IV[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00D2ZK2O4"]Dying Light[/URL] [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]Xbox One[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CMQTVUA"]Xbox One Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00MCLFZ1Y"]Xbox One Console Madden 15 Bundle[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IIHU44E"]Xbox One Console Titanfall Bundle[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HVPFGD8"]Titanfall Limited Edition Controller[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CMQTUSS"]Xbox One Wireless Controller[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IAVDQCK"]Xbox One Stereo Headset[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IAVDOS6"]Xbox One Stereo Headset Adapter[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GY4OB8S"]LEGO The Hobbit[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CMQTUCE"]KINECT Sports: Rivals[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IMVRVA6"]Trials Fusion[/URL] - April 15h [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FRESTZW"]The Amazing Spider-Man 2[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DHF39L2"]Wolfenstein: The New Order[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CX8VY4S"]Watch Dogs[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DYAQI0E"]Watch Dogs Limited Edition[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00I0574CO"]Murdered Soul Suspect[/URL] - June 3rd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IGH2HKU"]Transformers Rise of The Dark Spark[/URL] - June 24th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DHF39EO"]The Elder Scrolls Online[/URL] - June 30th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GZ1GUNO"]Tomb Raider Definitive Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DBCAS7E"]Zoo Tycoon[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00H5V9SLE"]Rayman Legends - Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CYNTHA0"]Thief[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DB9JYFY"]Titanfall[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00G2HSX86"]Titanfall Collectors Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00HD4R5WC"]Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00D2ZK2MQ"]Dying Light[/URL] [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]Xbox 360[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FATRKOK"]Xbox 360 250GB Holiday Value Console[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GZ9ESEE"]Xbox 360 250GB Console w/Halo 4, Darksiders II, Tomb Raider and Batman: Arkham City[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B003ZSP0WW"]Xbox 360 Wireless Controller[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DC9SWWE"]Titanfall[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00G2HSWZU"]Titanfall Collectors Edition[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GY4OBB0"]LEGO The Hobbit[/URL] - April 8th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00I9UVY7G"]FIFA 2014 World Cup Brazil[/URL] - April 15th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ICWO2G6"]Darksiders Collection[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FRESY6G"]The Amazing Spider-Man 2[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00CPKUV7K"]Wolfenstein: The New Order[/URL] - May 20th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BGD6LMG"]Watch Dogs[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DYAQHNC"]Watch Dogs Limited Edition[/URL] - May 27th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00BG6ZHL4"]Murdered: Soul Suspect[/URL] - June 3rd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IGHY7LC"]Transformers Rise of The Dark Spark[/URL] - June 24th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DNGQQUQ"]Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Z[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00H4BBVZQ"]Tomb Raider - GOTY Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DBCAT3W"]Fable Anniversary[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00946FSJ4"]Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FQFFQ2Q"]NASCAR '14[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DFT92EI"]Thief[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B0088MVP2Y"]Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ECOBFA4"]The LEGO Movie Videogame[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B006IOAHTQ"]South Park: The Stick of Truth[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FDQQD6Q"]South Park: The Stick of Truth Grand Wizard Edition [/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00F6YD26Y"]Dark Souls II Black Armor Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00F6YD27I"]Dark Souls II Collectors Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GJSUXLS"]Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes Standard Edition[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00E44EZPE"]Ultra Street Fighter IV[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00D2ZK2RQ"]Dying Light[/URL] [B][SIZE=4][COLOR="#0000FF"]Wii U[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00GY4OAM0"]LEGO The Hobbit[/URL] - April 22nd [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00FRESQKU"]The Amazing Spider-man 2[/URL] - April 29th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DC7G2W8"]Mario Kart 8[/URL] - May 30th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00IGH1LJ8"]Transformers Rise of the Dark Spark[/URL] - June 24th [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00DC7O77A"]Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze[/URL] [URL="http://astore.amazon.com/vsngaming-20/detail/B00ECOAX34"]The LEGO Movie Videogame[/URL]
  • We are looking to possibly form a second XB1 Madden 15 league on VSN. Please visit the Sports Gaming subforum and post in the thread if you are interested.
  • There will be a site outage from 12 pm est till 3 am est
  • If you are having trouble accessing your account and don't remember your password, email help@virtualsportsnetwork.com and i'll get you an updated password for 2024.

The Arcade Random Thoughts Thread

so I was watching the G4 feedback show, and Epic Games' Cliffy B was on, and something he said was pretty interesting...

"Skyrim for me as an Adult, is My new Zelda"

potentially waits for a skyrim deal...
 
I'm channeling my inner-Twigg here but, for what conceivable reason could MS have to charge 80 points for the Bastion DLC? There are no achievements attached, and the developer literally came out and said "Hey, it's free for everything else, it only costs something for 360 because MS made us make it so....so it's the minimum cost."

It seems so silly to me, but I guess that is just an example of MS' outdated handling of DLC in general.

It's a dollar? WTF? I thought it was supposed to be free too? I thought it was a "holiday gift" to the fans. Yes, I know it's only a dollar but that's bullshit.

And people wonder why I refer to them as M$ most of the time. Especially when there are no cheevos?!? Isn't each game under MS's bullshit policies allowed one free update? Unreal.
 
Fan made Left 4 Dead short film. Also includes some cameos from a few other game series.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGC-_o6QteU"]Airsoft GI - Left 4 Dead - Impulse 76 Fan Film - YouTube[/ame]
 
Just beat Arkham City. What a great movie/game. Joker was amazing and some of the boss fights were great. I hope they keep making these games.

I loved figuring out how I was going to take out a room of 7-8 guys with guns and their reaction to batman slowly picking them off
 
I finally got around to starting up MGS: Peace Walker HD yesterday, and I have to say that I'm impressed with how it looks.
 
So PlayStation Vita came out in Japan a few days ago, anyone see themselves buying this?

This market for handheld gaming has died out ever since the PSP the market hasn't been the best and I expect this to be the last official handheld.
 
So PlayStation Vita came out in Japan a few days ago, anyone see themselves buying this?

This market for handheld gaming has died out ever since the PSP the market hasn't been the best and I expect this to be the last official handheld.

I barely played my PSP, so I don't think I am going to be buying this. But I also agree with you too, this might very well be the last handheld, at least for Sony. I think the Nintendo market is still going strong, especially over in Japan, and with the Vita released over there first, that is where the market really is.
 
So PlayStation Vita came out in Japan a few days ago, anyone see themselves buying this?

This market for handheld gaming has died out ever since the PSP the market hasn't been the best and I expect this to be the last official handheld.

I already pre-ordered mine and I haven't touched my PSP in a couple years, its still in absolute mint condition though.

I think the Vita is a steal at $250. If I don't like it, it would be easy to sell
 
396182_10150444942457702_771027701_8628248_1683374718_n.jpg
 
I went and bought a copy of Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy to play through, because that was the one Star Wars game I never ended up playing.

I won't bore anyone with details of the game or my thoughts besides one. My god, I am so happy that developers have removed the "find a key" and "secret areas" from their games. I had forgotten how annoying both of those things were until just now.
 
This where you, and anyone else, goofed. You should have switched your console on, signed into xbox live, and went back to your computer. Then logged into xbox.com, searched BF3 and added the dlc to your qeue and let it download.
I didn't "goof" anything. I shouldn't have to go on the site for something that should be readily available on the dashboard, on the actual fucking console I'll be playing the damn game on.
And you know how only about half of all Xbox owners are actually connected to Live? Just try to imagine how many of them know there is an Xbox.com and that you can queue up downloads on the site. I'm not just talking about me obviously. I know that you can do that but that isn't the point and still isn't intuitive. Being able to start downloads when I'm away from my console is a great feature, but when I'm sitting at my console doing what you described makes no sense. And imagine the people that have no clue about it?

Also, in regards to the Holiday Sales going on this week. Good luck finding them too. You go into the Arcade Sales section and the only thing in there is Rock of Ages, which I didn't even think was mentioned in this weeks sale? I was able to click on a "Related" tab which did have Insanely Twisted and Renegade Ops, but no prices listed and no Bastion or Bloodrayne to be found ANYWHERE. How can you not have sale items, especially a game like Bastion that is only on sale for one day, not front and center?

This dash needs a lot of work. I hate it at this point.
I'm channeling my inner-Twigg here but, for what conceivable reason could MS have to charge 80 points for the Bastion DLC? There are no achievements attached, and the developer literally came out and said "Hey, it's free for everything else, it only costs something for 360 because MS made us make it so....so it's the minimum cost."

It seems so silly to me, but I guess that is just an example of MS' outdated handling of DLC in general.

I want the DLC but I don't want to pay $5 to add the minimum amount of MS points...lame.

Ok, so I was listening to the Giant Bombast on the way into work this morning and they mentioned this. They said that Super Giant Games, the developer of Bastion, released a statement saying that the reason the DLC is 80 points($1) on XBLA but free on PC is because "We made it as cheap as Microsoft would allow and still let us release it." Complete bullshit. This brings me back to my statements before of MS's ridiculous Live policies and one of the main reasons I have so many issues with MS in the first place. They have all of these policies in place that basically say "Conform, or you won't release shit on our console." It's their console and I understand that but it's complete bullshit. Take Joe Danger for instance. Another fine example of MS's ridiculous policy. Because it originally released on PS3 and thus came out on the Xbox much later, MS has a policy in place that says that is a developer wants to release a game on their console but not day and date with their competitor, the developer MUST include addition features, content, etc or the game can not be released.

Patrick Klepek was talking about how archaic these policies are and it is doing nothing but hurt relationships with developers. He also commented that it's pretty sad that developers have to resort to releasing statements as to why they were "forced" to basically screw over their fans.

This is why Johnathen Blow said he despises MS's policies and will probably never release another game on XBLA and also why Epic released a statement years ago saying that they wanted to release DLC maps for the first Gears for free but MS wouldn't allow them and MS has the final say so.
 
Bastion looks like another game people should be playing on PC instead of consoles. It'll probably be on sale for $5 during the Steam Holiday Sale too. :smug2:
 
Also, in regards to the Holiday Sales going on this week. Good luck finding them too. You go into the Arcade Sales section and the only thing in there is Rock of Ages, which I didn't even think was mentioned in this weeks sale? I was able to click on a "Related" tab which did have Insanely Twisted and Renegade Ops, but no prices listed and no Bastion or Bloodrayne to be found ANYWHERE. How can you not have sale items, especially a game like Bastion that is only on sale for one day, not front and center?

So yesterday, I posted the Holiday sales on the forum after visiting CAG, then i turned on my 360 and it was RIGHT THERE on home screen, COUNTDOWN TO 2012:12 days of sales, every deal in a simple to find manner...I DL Bloodrayne:Betrayal

No
rage-logo.png
necessary...
 
So yesterday, I posted the Holiday sales on the forum after visiting CAG, then i turned on my 360 and it was RIGHT THERE on home screen, COUNTDOWN TO 2012:12 days of sales, every deal in a simple to find manner...I DL Bloodrayne:Betrayal

No
rage-logo.png
necessary...

Well, fuck that. Is my dashboard busted or something? I should've taken a picture of all the tabs yesterday. Nothing about any of the sales. :(
 
Well, fuck that. Is my dashboard busted or something? I should've taken a picture of all the tabs yesterday. Nothing about any of the sales. :(

Its available on home screen and the games screen
01-E3-2011-_E2_80_93-New-Xbox-Dashboard-Pictures_large_extra_large.png


that center tab changes every 10 seconds, going though 4 or 5 announcements/deals very similar to the IGN.com homepage

the holiday deals are available front and center on the home screen and the Games screen
pretty simple stuff Mackey :smug2:
 
Its available on home screen and the games screen
01-E3-2011-_E2_80_93-New-Xbox-Dashboard-Pictures_large_extra_large.png


that center tab changes every 10 seconds, going though 4 or 5 announcements/deals very similar to the IGN.com homepage

the holiday deals are available front and center on the home screen and the Games screen
pretty simple stuff Mackey :smug2:

U can also use lb and rb to cycle through the center screen.
 
Oh, I hear you Med. But I'm telling you, there wasn't anything on my dash about it at 5pm yesterday. I made sure to thoroughly check both of those tabs and...nothing. The only "deal" was under the weekly deal and that is Rock of Ages.
 
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