The Bret Hart scale...Let's rate random wrestlers.

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

It's not as though Dino Bravo was that bad, but he sure wasn't great. I have my own theory on the three qualities it takes to be a great pro wrestler. The first one is look or physical presence. On a scale of one to ten, Hogan, being such an awesome specimen, might rate a ten, for example. Although it always helped, it wasn't as important to be tough as it was to look tough, especially if you were a heel. The second quality is the ability to talk, to sell yourself; Hogan might score another easy ten, whereas a guy like Dynamite would have to work to earn a two. The third is wrestling talent, the ability to work. Here it would be just the opposite: Hogan would rate the two and Dynamite would score the ten. A score in the high twenties adds up to a great wrestler.

To me, Dino Bravo had low numbers. He looked sluggish, had no personality and was a so-so worker at best. If I had to rate myself at the time, I'd say I had a good muscular frame warranting about a seven. On mic skills I'd be lucky if I was a four. But on actual wrestling ability, I'd give myself a ten.

Physical Appearance / Look / Character -
Ability to Talk/Sell Yourself -
In-Ring Work -

Use a fancy picture and talk about some old wrestlers a little bit...show some matches. I don't give a fuck.
-----

Ric Flair (Larry) - 28/30
Adrian Adonis (EmpireWF) - 20/30
Bret Hart (BigPapa) - 21.5/30 ~ (W2BTD) 23/30 ~ (dave) 25/30
Junkyard Dog (senser) - 20/30
SD Jones (LiquidRob) - 27/30
Killer Khan (LiquidRob) - 20/30
Arn Anderson (Kuzzy) - 24/30 ~ (dave) - 24/30
Kevin Nash (Larry) - 18/30
Ken Patera (LiquidRob) - 22/30
Randy Savage (Larry) - 27/30
Don Muraco (LiquidRob) - 20/30 ~ (W2BTD) "Magnificent" 19/30 "Rock" 13/30
Jimmy Snuka (LiquidRob) - 25/30
Hulk Hogan (Larry) 25.5/30
Tully Blanchard (Larry) - 20.5/30
Roddy Piper (Tailback U) - 28/30
Duke Droese (Kuzzy) - 16/30
Kevin Sullivan (Kuzzy) - 21/30
Ken Shamrock (EmpireWF) - 15/30
Terry Garvin (W2BTD) - 10/30
Curt Hennig (EmpireWF) - 26/30
Bruiser Brody (W2BTD) - 28/30
Bashton Booger (Kuzzy) - 9/30
Owen Hart (Kuzzy) - 22/30
Brooklyn Brawler (Anthony) - 30/30
The Haiti Kid (LiquidRob) - 22/30
Rick Rude (Larry) - 22/30
CM Punk (Larry) - 24/30
Randy Orton (W2BTD) - 10/30
Bryan Danielson (EmpireWF) - 23/30 ~ (Larry) - 21/30 ~ (W2BTD) - 23/30
Chris Jericho (Larry) - 26/30
Jim Nord (Kuzzy) - 14/30
Road Warrior Hawk (Larry) - 20/30
Paul Roma (LiquidRob) - 18/30
The Undertaker (Larry) - 24/30 ~ (W2BTD) - 21/30
Bill Goldberg (Larry) 19/30
Andre the Giant (Larry) - 25/30
Virgil (EmpireWF) - 11/30 ~ (Larry) 6/30
Shelton Benjamin (Ralnakor) - 18/30
Kamala (KoF) - 17/30
Gedo (Shogun) - 19/30
Abyss (Shogun) - 12/30
Ken Anderson (Larry) - 15/30
Sting (Larry) - 22.5/30 ~ (EmpireWF) 23/30
Brian Pillman (Larry) - 23.5/30
Big Van Vader (Larry) - 23/30
Chris Benoit (Kuzzy) - 22/30 ~ (Larry) - 20/30
Bam Bam Bigelow (EmpireWF) - 21/30
Dean Malenko (AceSuper) - 18/30
Mick Foley (Kuzzy) - 20/30
Sabu (Kuzzy) - 20/30
Al Snow (Kuzzy) - 18/30
Lance Storm (EmpireWF) - 19/30
Elix Skipper (Kuzzy) - 17.5/30
Haku (LiquidRob) - 20/30
Lex Luger (dave) 19/30 ~ (Larry) 17/30 ~ (W2BTD) - 14/30
The Honky Tonk Man (dave) - 23/30
Terry Funk (EmpireWF) - 26/30
Powers of Pain (W2BTD) - ??/30
John Cena (Larry) - 20.5/30
Tatanka (dave) - 16/30
Papa Shango (Kuzzy) - 21/30
Marty Jannetty (Kuzzy) - 16/30
Ahmed Johnson (Kuzzy) - 12/30
Kelly Kelly (dave) - 15/30
Raven (Kuzzy) - 24/30
Nick Bockwinkel (dave) - 28/30
The Mountie (EmpireWF) 20/30
Big Bossman (EmpireWF) - 19/30
AJ Styles (Larry) - 19/30

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Here is a template for discussion...or don't use it, I don't care...just to get the ball rolling.

I think he's the GOAT...so, I'll start there.

Ric Flair
The Nature Boy​

Physical Appearance / Look / Character - 8/10
Not big and larger than life like Hogan, but had a real unique look. Earlier in his career I'd give him more of an 8 because he did have a solid physique going on, but 7 later on in life because it was really just the look he had and the aurora he'd have around his character. Fuck it, I'm going with an 8 to actually even my scale out.

Ability to Talk/Sell Yourself - 10/10. Was there anyone better, really? I'd give him an 11 if I could.

In-Ring Work - Again, 10/10. There are a bunch of guys I'd lump together as a 10 just because I don't want to employ the dewey decimal system.

TOTAL - 28/30

 

[Bigpapa42]

I probably overrated Bret Hart a bit, but he's an all-time favorite. I borrowed the SummerSlam DVD set from a buddy a year ago and watched through it. It reminded me of how fucking good Hart was in his prime. He was consistently in the best SS match on every show, year after year. Yeah, a 10 in the ring, or close to it.

I'd probalby give him a bit better than 4 on the mic - he could talk. He had few really really good promos, but he never came across as awkward and uncomfortable.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I probably overrated Bret Hart a bit, but he's an all-time favorite. I borrowed the SummerSlam DVD set from a buddy a year ago and watched through it. It reminded me of how fucking good Hart was in his prime. He was consistently in the best SS match on every show, year after year.

Rate him, you bastard.

 

[EmpireWF]

86-87 version of Adrian Adonis

Physical Appearance: 2 (Fat, out of shape, looked like an egg)
Promo Ability: 10 (he was gold)
In-Ring Work: 8 (He was still great despite the extra size)

20/30

 

[Bigpapa42]

Alright alright...

Physical Appearance / Look / Character - 6.5/10. Not great but not awful. Kinda like Flair in that regard.

Ability to Talk/Sell Yourself - 5/10. Never really a great promo but he could certainly sell himself. He also rarely had poor promos.

In-Ring Work - 10/10. Some of his matches have been overrated at this point and his WCW body of work was poor, but his best was really fucking good and his average was better than many wrestler's best.

TOTAL - 21.5/30

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I think Hart as a babyface delivered awful promos. However, he wasn't that bad as a matter-of-fact heel delivering a good promo. I'd say a 5 is fair.

 

[Senser81]

Junkyard Dog
"JYD"​

Physical Appearance / Look / Character - 6.5/10
For all the bluster and dog chains, was really just a big, middle-aged black guy. In pretty good shape for his age, but moved around like an old man.

Ability to Talk/Sell Yourself - 6/10
Not really a big talker for pre-match hype, but his contribution to the WWF rock album is unmatched.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKrlk26I-2A[/ame]

In-Ring Work - 8/10. Utilized the head-butt and other basic moves. Not overly flashy, but usually got the job done. You felt sorry for him when he got beat up.

TOTAL - 20.5/30




Brain: "Hey Monsoon, I know you've grabbed them cakes quite a bit in your lifetime. Just ask the people at catering..."

Monsoon: "WILL YOU STOP?!"

 

[Liquidrob]

S.D. Jones​

Physical Appearance - 9/10, wasnt as big as Tony Atlas, but almost

Ability to Talk/Sell Yourself - I was like 8, so I give him 9 out of 10 because he probably did some Jive Talk

In-Ring Work - 10/10, explosive and athletic and like JYD and the other black wrestlers or wrestlers from the islands back than they used a lot of headbutts, was that closet racism?

Score - 27/30

 

[Bigpapa42]

I think Hart as a babyface delivered awful promos. However, he wasn't that bad as a matter-of-fact heel delivering a good promo. I'd say a 5 is fair.

I don't think he was "awful" as a babyface promo guy. He was still fairly comfortable on the mic. When I think of truly terrible promo guys, I think back to old territorial promos where guys were just really obvoiusly uncomfortable talking into the mic. They not only said nothing of value but they did so in the most awkward way possible. Hart's babyface promos weren't that good, but by the standard of that era, not too bad.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

I don't think he was "awful" as a babyface promo guy. He was still fairly comfortable on the mic. When I think of truly terrible promo guys, I think back to old territorial promos where guys were just really obvoiusly uncomfortable talking into the mic. They not only said nothing of value but they did so in the most awkward way possible. Hart's babyface promos weren't that good, but by the standard of that era, not too bad.

I'll give you that, an old Jim Nord promo is like negative numbers. When I say awful here though, I mean like a 3 or 4...which is a low number when we are talking about top guys. I mean, he rated Hogan a 2 as an in-ring performer...I mean, Hogan was better in the ring than Hart was on the mic.

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

Great thread idea.

I think you guys are selling Bret short on promos. He always got his point across, and came off cocky & confident at all times. His 1997 heel promos were awesome. I'd give him a 7.

Look: 7
Promos: 7
Work: 9. I can't pull the trigger on 10. He was great. He's not Misawa.

Score: 23

 

[Liquidrob]

Killer Khan​

Physical Appearance - 10/10, I really thought this guy was a killer, seen him in the New Haven Coliseum, can't remember who he fought, I don't think the guy lived though

Ability to Talk/Sell Yourself - 8/10 Don't think he ever spoke, but he snarled a lot which worked

In-Ring Work - 2/10, I think he did a 'claw' move and monogloian chops and tha's it

Score - 20/30

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

Arn Anderson

Physical Appearance - 5/10 Arn doesnt look like your typical wrestler, short, and stalky, but when paired with Ole it really sold well because they looked so similar to each other.

Ability to Talk/Sell Yourself - 10/10 I think hes gotta be the perfect 10 here, but I know ill probably catch flack for that. But noone cut a more intense promo then Arn, one of the best on the sticks ever.

In-Ring Work - 9/10 Despite not ever really having a "great" singles match, this guy was steadily one of the better workers wherever he went, especially as a tag team wrestler. I dont recall seeing many bad Arn Anderson matches in my time.

Total
24/30​

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

I'll give you that, an old Jim Nord promo is like negative numbers. When I say awful here though, I mean like a 3 or 4...which is a low number when we are talking about top guys. I mean, he rated Hogan a 2 as an in-ring performer...I mean, Hogan was better in the ring than Hart was on the mic.

Younger AWA/New Japan/heel WWF Hogan I would give a 6 for work.

Hulkamania Hogan, a 2.

Everything since about 1995, a 0.

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Kevin Nash
aka Oz / Big Vinnie Vegas / Diesel​

Physical Appearance / Look / Character - 9/10. Few guys could match up with him physically.
Ability to Talk/Sell Yourself - 7/10. He could talk.
In-Ring Work - 2/10. He was awful. Gets all two points for lawn dart'ing Rey Mysterio into a sound truck. I've never seen a Nash match I even remotely enjoyed.

TOTAL 18/30

 

[Bigpapa42]

I'll give you that, an old Jim Nord promo is like negative numbers. When I say awful here though, I mean like a 3 or 4...which is a low number when we are talking about top guys. I mean, he rated Hogan a 2 as an in-ring performer...I mean, Hogan was better in the ring than Hart was on the mic.

That's true. And Hogan could actually work when he wanted to. His Japan stuff is pretty good. Not outstanding. But it clearly shows his WWF/WCW formula was not all he was capable of. Its all he needed to do, though. Same with The Rock, really.

I had the WWE-On-Demand for awhile (surprisingly worthwhile) and loved when they would have an old show from Mid Atlantic Wrestling or even WCCW from about 1983-84. Some of the promos were just nasty-bad. Even for top level workers. Jack Brisco cut some really poor ones (and he was capable of a decent promo). Then Roddy Piper would walk onto the set and cut a Piper level promo that made Brisco look even worse...

 

[LiquidLarry2GhostWF]

Great thread idea.

I think you guys are selling Bret short on promos. He always got his point across, and came off cocky & confident at all times. His 1997 heel promos were awesome. I'd give him a 7.

Look: 7
Promos: 7
Work: 9. I can't pull the trigger on 10. He was great. He's not Misawa.

Score: 23

I really am trying to not split hairs like that...I agree, but I'd give both 10's and just not give a fuck. A guy like Jericho would be a 9, to me.

 

[Kuzzy Powers]

5/10 on the stick for Bret is severely underrating him IMO. When Bret was doing the Canada vs America shit he was tremendous on the stick.

 

[Liquidrob]

Ken Patera​

Physical Appearance - 10/10, look at him, does it get any better?

Ability to Talk/Sell Yourself - 3/10, don't remember him speaking much

In-Ring Work - 9/10, I know his finishing move was a full nelson, maybe a swinging one, my big fat cousin would put me in it and yell 'Ken Patera!', I don't think I ever got out of it

Score - 22/30