The Good, the Bad and the Ugly; Week 4

[steeljake]

This week we passed what is known as the quarter pole (well only known to the GBU crew, who ever that is...) and while we wait on the first edition of the GBU power rankings it seems that Steeljake still insists on writing this Good and Ugly junk. So, since I still haven't been paid, here is you're host, Steejake...

<And all the people rejoiced ... yah>

Hmmm, maybe I should pay that announcer guy at some point... no matter, on with the show...

A quarter if the season is gone and it's safe to say that there are more than a few teams already wishing it was next year. The usual suspects, Oakland, Cleveland and Detroit, have been joined by Tampa, St. Louis, and the Chiefs not surprisingly have joined them this year. The real shocker is that Carolina and Tennessee are also in the same boat and the water is rising fast. Both of these teams won their divisions last year, and the Titans have surpassed their loss total from last season while the Panthers need just one more loss to tie their previous mark. When the Browns went from 10-6 to 4-12 no one batted an eye, this however is cause for concern. Oh wait, I have word that Carolina has indeed lost to the bye week, the score was 35-2, Jake threw 9 picks and lost 11 fumbles, but they did score a safety when the bye week took pity on them and just took a knee in their own end zone at the end of the game.

The Phins were the only team able to get out of the winless section this week, but the Bucs and Browns at least tried to get off the snide while the Rams and Titans might as well of just stayed home. Favre exercised his demons, both Manning’s stayed unblemished, the Pats whine and got lucky, the Broncos proved themselves and the Steelers remembered how to run the ball. We have players calling out players, analyst who wish they were still players calling out players, and coordinators setting up their players to fail. There is more than enough meat to go around, no one goes hungry this week people... Let's eat!!!

The Good​

- The Chicago Bears (3-1)

OK, I admit when Jay Cutler threw 4 picks against the Packers in week 1 I left this team for dead. 3 wins and just 1 pick to 7 td's later, I am here to eat crow, for now. You play who the schedule says and it did take a second half rally to beat the Lions, and your D gave up 296 passing to Matt Stafford, but a win is a win.

- The Cincinnati Bengals (3-1)

This team tried so hard to let the Browns win, but the Bungles can't seem to beat the Bengals to the stadium. The biggest change on this team is not a healthy Palmer or a happy 85, it is a defense that can actually play. Marvin Lewis should be giving Mike Zimmer a piece of his salary right now for saving his job. The numbers aren't great, 26th and 14th against the pass and run respectively, but the D is keeping them in games and if you can just hang around long enough, you can win a few games. They face an angry Ravens team on the road next week so reality may not be far away.

- The Indianapolis Peyton Manning's (4-0)

A Colts fan over at VSN commented on last week's GBU and this is what he had to say...

I wish people would stop calling the Colts the "Indianapolis Manning’s" if anything call them the "Indianapolis Polian’s" it's ridiculous how he never misses when drafting an offensive player. Other than Hank Baskett who hasn't even played, every player on the Colts offense was either drafted by him or signed as an un-drafted free agent. No other GM in the league can say that.

While he is correct, to a point, I asked my buddy about this Peyton and this is what he had to say...

Dear Killa,

While Mr. Polian did indeed draft me and all of my teammates, until he puts on a jersey and gets to stare down 250 pound monsters who want nothing more than to kill him then this team will be named the Indianapolis Peyton Manning's.

Signed,

#18

P.S. Tell that bum Nick Harper that I'm coming for him next, he can just call Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie if he needs a preview.

P.P.S. Thanks for your support there buddy, way to be a fan.

- The Jacksonville Jaguars (2-2)

OK, I sort of got this one wrong as well. To be fair, the Titans secondary is filled with special teams rejects and an old washed up Steeler, but Mr. Garrard did go 27/37 for 323 yards, 3 td's and no int's. A win is a win and 300 yard passing day with no picks is always a positive thing, so for this week anyway, good on ya Jacksonville and don't go letting the Seahawks beat you next week.

- The New York Football Giants (4-0)

Ho-hum, another week another win against a team in rebuild mode. Who made this schedule? The first two teams they played are currently clinging to a .500 record and the last two have a goose egg in the win column, and just so to be sure that easy street isn't too short, Oakland comes to the Meadowlands next week. But, like we always say here at the GBU, you play who the schedule says and good teams will win the games they are supposed to. The G-men have all but forgotten Plaxico with the emergence of Steve Smith (no, not the one who punched that dude in the face, this one is actually grown up, both in mentality and size) who currently leads the league in receptions, yards and touch downs. I also have it on good authority that he does not own a gun. Oh, and that defense is none too shabby as well.

- The New England Patriots (3-1)

See, I told you idiot Bostonians that it wasn't time to panic. The luck of the Irish was indeed with Tammy did-you-see-that-guy-dive-at-me-throw-the-flag! Brady (more on the skirt wearing QB later) and the great hooded Bellicheat, but 3-1 and tied with the Jets for the division lead is not a bad place to be after 4 games.

- The New Orleans Saints (4-0)

OK, let me get this straight...

Brees comes out of the gate and looks like the MVP of the NFL in the first two weeks so teams scheme for him and the running game steps up in week 3. The offense runs into the wall known as Gang Green and their defense wins the game?!?!? Their Defense? When did they get a defense in the French Quarter? Drew has now gone 2 weeks without throwing a touch down and this team is still undefeated. I hate to say this so early, but this looks like the most complete team in the NFL right now. It’s not like teams haven’t started great and fizzled down the stretch before... oh wait...

- The Denver Broncos (4-0)

Everyone said they haven't played anyone and that Dallas would bring them back to Earth... well, everyone, except for me, was wrong. The Broncos have added a defense that can hold teams to less than 7 points a game (6.5 to be exact) and I don't care how bad your offense is you can win games. Champ Bailey and his new BFF Brian Dawkins lead the 3rd ranked pass defense and some dude name Elvis Dumervil (his is from some place called Louisville, go figure) is helping to anchor the 5th ranked rush defense. Mike Nolan may not have been a great head coach, but defense he knows. They say winning cures all that ails and as proof I give you Brandon Marshall hugging Josh McDaniels. The Broncos get to go right on proving themselves as they welcome in the Patriots next week; I wonder whose hoodie will win the battle for who can get washed least?

- The San Francisco 49ers (3-1)

From a tough loss to an easy win, this team just keeps on rolling. The NFC Worst is not completely locked down just yet, but it might as well be. Mike Singletary has his players drinking the water he is pouring and it doesn't look to slow down now. As I said before, good teams win the games they're supposed to and this team did exactly that this week. They face the Falcons next and at some point the lack of a passing game might hurt them, but it is funny how far heart can actually take you.

- The Pittsburgh Steelers (2-2)

While I am mortified that the Chargers made a game out of what should have been a blow out, my wife has asked me to try to focus on the positive, so here goes nothing...

Holy smokes, the Pittsburgh Steelers finally found a team that has such a horridly overrated defense that even their offensive line can push them around. Second year man Rashard Mendenhall was made to look like the second coming of Franco and we can only hope this doesn't go to the kid's head. Jeff Reed was called on late to make a game sealing field goal and much to the surprise of Steeler Nation, shank-a-potomous actually hit one squarely. No one could cover Antonio Gates, but at least James Harrison got his hands on the quarterback this week. The next two weeks have the Steelers playing at Detroit and then they welcome the Browns to Heinz Field. I would normally say these games were locks, but until Troy gets back and the passing game isn't the best part of the offense nothing is certain.

See honey, positive... :thumbsup:

- The Minnesota Favre's (4-0)

He admitted it was a revenge game and then he went out and stuck it to 'em. Well, sort of... What Brett needs to be doing today is taking Jarred Allen out and buy him a new car, a house, a new bow to hunt with or just whatever he wants. Thanks to him Aaron Rodgers will be spending most of today in a hot tub and on the massage table. Favre did this great start thing last year and for now he can bask in the glory of a week 4 win, but I personally reserve judgment until at least early December.

And now for a musical break whilst I go and grab a refreshment... Hit it boys!!!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0XLKcMoXRE"]YouTube - Van Halen - Hot For Teacher[/ame]

Now back to our regularly scheduled tom-foolery...

The Bad​

- The Cleveland Browns (0-4)

This is actually one step higher than they normally are and that is thanks to them having a chance to win this last week. That is until they let the speedy Carson Palmer run 12 yards on a 4th down with less than 2 minutes to go in OT. Oh well, can't win em all right? Although just one or two would be a step in the right direction. Don’t get me wrong people, there is no such thing as a moral victory in pro sports, but this is as close as anyone will ever get. Mangini has been given the kiss of death so to speak as management declared it 'preposterous' that he would be on the hot seat. I know this just makes the fans and players want to get up and dance...

- The Baltimore Ravens (3-1)

A short message to Mark Clayton from ESPN's Cris Carter...

"Wide receivers catch the ball, it's what they do."

Also, Mr. Ngata, please find a way to stop your 300 plus pound body on a dime when you're at full speed. I know the laws of physics won't allow this, but the rules of the NFL say you have to, and we all know they can never be wrong. That is all.

- The Buffallo Bills (1-3)

Well let's see... Miami was oh-fer and their starting quarter back is out for the year, a chance to keep a rival on the snide? Oops, the game had to be played after all. That ticking sound is Terrel Owens approaching melt down status. What I don't get is this team put in the no huddle and then fired the guy who installed it... why are they still running it? It is not like it is working or anything.

- The San Diego Chargers (2-2)

So you have Merriman back and all should be well right? Wrong. Despite Rivera's best impression of Rex Ryan his defense allowed the worst offensive line in all of football push them around all night. Quinton Jammer, who is supposed to be some kind of good player and his partner Antonio Cromartie couldn't even find Hines Ward and if not for Antonio Gates being in beast mode this game would have be ugly. Norv has to be fired, the problem is that A.J. Smith chose him over Marty Schottenheimer, who was 14-2 at the time, and if he admits that Norv is the idiot we all know he is he will need to be fired himself. Dean Spanos has a franchise quarter back and a decent core on both sides of the ball, maybe it is time to fire Smith and Turner and let Shanahan have a shot at revenge.

- The Green Bay Packers (2-2)

Hey Ted Thomson....

Favre says hi... Oh, and your offensive line sucks.

Love ya mean it,

Jared Allen.

And now a word from our sponsor, Ms. Purdie's School for QB's…

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Tom Brady <enters in a pretty pink skirt and tube top... try not to get sick>: Ms. Purdie has sure helped me. Just this last week I cried my pretty little eyes out when someone had the nerve to fail to stop themselves from falling down, in a football game no less. I used the patented turn and flail your arms method and I got the flag. Why bother converting 3rd downs when you can just whine your way to a first down?

Ms. Purdie: That's right Tammy, I mean Tommy, we guarantee that we can turn you into a preening fairy clamoring for roughing calls in just two weeks, or your money back. Just call 1-800-I-wish-I-could-just-wear-a-dress-in-public and for $19.95 plus processing, we will send you a 2 DVD set that will have you on the way to losing your manhood in no time flat.

OK boys and girls, it's time to cut the nice machine off and get down to what we all came here for today. It's time to call out the teams and players that won't even lose 2 seconds of sleep over it, but at least it will be funny... maybe. Here it is folks...

The Ugly​

- The Oakland Raiders (1-3)

6 points. Yup, that’s all they could get this week, 6. What's even better is that after giving up a safety on an outside run from the end zone, the Raiders then allowed a 95 yard touch down return on the ensuing free kick. Russell went 12-33, he is now at 40% for the season and now Tom Cable may be headed to prison. The upside? At least there will be Raiders fans in the joint, Tom just better hope they don't blame him for their team sucking. I think I heard Al coughing... oh, sorry it was just the wind.

- The Tennessee Titans (0-4)

Last year this team lost 3 games all season, this year they have 4 losses in 4 tries. They can't stop the run, they can't stop the pass and Kerry Collins couldn't hit water if he was throwing out of a boat. The cries for V.Y. will only get louder and while I know first hand how Titans fans feel about him, they need to see what they have so they can decide who to take with their top 5 pick this year. Good news, the Colts are on fiah and they are next on the schedule, losing this game won't be a shocker, but it will be sad. Nick Harper should break his own leg to avoid getting beaten like he stole something... again.

- The Dallas Cowboys (2-2)

(With apologies to the ESPN Countdown Crew)

Lemme get this straight...

You’re inside the 5, you need a touch down to tie, and you have the best running game in all of football. The running back's name is Marion 'The Barbarian' Barber. The play call is a slant to a number four wide out covered by this guy named Champ Bailey? Not only that, but you waste 13 seconds getting set up to spike it? Come on man!!!!!!

I just received this email sent to the GBU from Champ Bailey, addressed to Romo and Garrett, I wonder what it says...

Dear Chumps,

Thanks for helping me grow the legend last Sunday. I was sure after the 3 passes I knocked down, one on the previous play, and the interception I got from that bum Romo there was no way you would throw at me again. But here comes some dude named Hurd and the ball is coming right for him. I almost missed it because I was sure it was a mirage. When I go to the Hall of Fame I will be sure to thank you both.

P.S. You need to give back your paycheck from last week, if you took it it would be called larceny.

Your friend and benefactor;
Champ.

- The St. Louis Rams (0-4)

This will be short...

2nd shut out this year and this team has scored a grand total of 24 points all year. I don't have anything else to say but you suck. This team could be worse than last years Lions, seriously. If they go 0-16, Spags is one and done. The End.



That’s all I have time for this week. All comments Good, Bad and Ugly are welcome and can be sent here. You can also sign up for an email copy to be sent to you the moment that the GBU is published. As always, please remember that this is only my opinion and that and $300.00 will get you the NFL Sunday ticket so you don't have to sit through the Titans getting waxed by the Jags and your only other option is the snooze fest that was the Bucs playing the Skins. Look for the Game(s) of the Week feature which comes out on Thursday's and tune in next week when we will hear Jason Garret say:

"Running game? What's that?"

 

[Gonzo]

Good Stuff.

I'm 110% with Killa here. Polians if anything.

 

[DomePatrol]

Don't jinx the saints man. Im just waiting for a game where Drew Brees plays MVP like the running game is going and the D is shutdown all at the same time. But fuck it 4-0 with each side of the ball taking turns being lights out is fine by me.

 

[Archer]

Good Stuff.

I'm 110% with Killa here. Polians if anything.

I would agree with this and the previous statement from Killa Pand

 

[Senser81]

As usual, Killa Pand's comments about the Colts are borderline retarded. Its the typical Killa Pand NFL-related posting...its factually incorrect, its completely illogical, and, in fact, the opposite is probably true.

Peyton Manning is what makes the Colts go.

I would suggest that the Colts don't need to go after offensive free agents or make trades for offense because Manning will make do with whomever they draft. This is a huge benefit for the Colts salary cap...they can rely on young, less-paid talent than spending big money on free agents. Also, the Colts spend an inordinate amount of draft picks on offense, making it less likely for them to need offensive players from outside the organization.

The salary cap has basically made it impossible for teams to make player for player deals. I don't know if other NFL teams can say their offense is made up entirely of homegrown talent, but I can glimpse the Steelers offense and see that basically the entire starting offense was drafted by Pittsburgh. Justin Hartwig played for the Titans, but guys like Roethlisberger, Ward, Miller, Holmes, Mendenhall, Parker, etc. were all signed by the Steelers out of college.

Lastly, the claim that Polian never misses on an offensive player is absurd. Polian is a fine GM, but his drafts have been awful lately. I'm going to list the offensive players Polian has taken in the last few years.

Brown (1st round RB sits on bench)
Collie (starting to play)
Painter
Thomas
Pollak (decent, but he was a 2nd round pick)
Tamme
Santi
Justice
Mike Hart (!)
Garcon (props, he actually plays)
Richard
Toudoze
Johnson (bad, but a starter)
Gandy
Hunt
Rayner
Davis
Gonzalez (this guy was a 1st round pick?)
Ugoh (awful)
Hall
Addai (had 2/3 of a good season...also a 1st round pick)



A lot of bad picks in that group. Amazing that two recent first rounders were spent on RBs. The only picks with any production were the WR picks...because Manning is the QB. The Colts O-line is not good, basically due to Polian's drafts.

 

[Archer]

As usual, Killa Pand's comments about the Colts are borderline retarded. Its the typical Killa Pand NFL-related posting...its factually incorrect, its completely illogical, and, in fact, the opposite is probably true.

Peyton Manning is what makes the Colts go.

I would suggest that the Colts don't need to go after offensive free agents or make trades for offense because Manning will make do with whomever they draft. This is a huge benefit for the Colts salary cap...they can rely on young, less-paid talent than spending big money on free agents. Also, the Colts spend an inordinate amount of draft picks on offense, making it less likely for them to need offensive players from outside the organization.

The salary cap has basically made it impossible for teams to make player for player deals. I don't know if other NFL teams can say their offense is made up entirely of homegrown talent, but I can glimpse the Steelers offense and see that basically the entire starting offense was drafted by Pittsburgh. Justin Hartwig played for the Titans, but guys like Roethlisberger, Ward, Miller, Holmes, Mendenhall, Parker, etc. were all signed by the Steelers out of college.

Lastly, the claim that Polian never misses on an offensive player is absurd. Polian is a fine GM, but his drafts have been awful lately. I'm going to list the offensive players Polian has taken in the last few years.

Brown (1st round RB sits on bench)
Collie (starting to play)
Painter
Thomas
Pollak (decent, but he was a 2nd round pick)
Tamme
Santi
Justice
Mike Hart (!)
Garcon (props, he actually plays)
Richard
Toudoze
Johnson (bad, but a starter)
Gandy
Hunt
Rayner
Davis
Gonzalez (this guy was a 1st round pick?)
Ugoh (awful)
Hall
Addai (had 2/3 of a good season...also a 1st round pick)



A lot of bad picks in that group. Amazing that two recent first rounders were spent on RBs. The only picks with any production were the WR picks...because Manning is the QB. The Colts O-line is not good, basically due to Polian's drafts.

Brown plays alot .... and is the fourth quarter back ahead of Addai . I would call it a 50/50 runningback partnership so he hardly "sits the bench" . They generally ride who has the hot hand

Polian doesn't fail on offensive players outside of Ugoh maybe in the first round . Outside of that , it's up and down like most teams .

You can't argue with having a full team of drafted/undrafed free agents on offense and defense regularly getting 12-4 13-3 records

 

[Senser81]

Brown plays alot .... and is the fourth quarter back ahead of Addai . I would call it a 50/50 runningback partnership so he hardly "sits the bench" . They generally ride who has the hot hand

Polian doesn't fail on offensive players outside of Ugoh maybe in the first round . Outside of that , it's up and down like most teams .

You can't argue with having a full team of drafted/undrafed free agents on offense and defense regularly getting 12-4 13-3 records

But don't you think it says something that after Polian spent a 1st round pick on Addai, three years later he had to spend another 1st round pick on a RB because Addai was so ineffective? Isn't that like the Bears drafting Cedric Benson then a couple years later drafting Matt Forte?

In my opinion, the offensive guys that Polian has drafted in the high rounds in recent years have been mediocre. I think if Donald Brown, Anthony Gonzalez, Joseph Addai, Mike Pollack, Ben Hartsock (is he still in the league?) had been on a team other than the Colts, they'd probably be busts. They aren't all that impressive to me.

I think Polian's best pick was Reggie Wayne. Dallas Clark was a good pick, too, but if you spend a first rounder on a TE you should be getting a decent TE. Look at the Colts offense now...their best guys are Manning, Wayne, and Clark, and all of those guys were drafted years ago. I don't think the new guys have added anything to the Colts offense other than Addai's good 2/3 season.

Again, Polian is a fine GM, but IMO the credit given to Peyton Manning is well-deserved. He has a pretty mediocre supporting cast this year, yet the Colts are undefeated.

 

[Archer]

But don't you think it says something that after Polian spent a 1st round pick on Addai, three years later he had to spend another 1st round pick on a RB because Addai was so ineffective? Isn't that like the Bears drafting Cedric Benson then a couple years later drafting Matt Forte?

In my opinion, the offensive guys that Polian has drafted in the high rounds in recent years have been mediocre. I think if Donald Brown, Anthony Gonzalez, Joseph Addai, Mike Pollack, Ben Hartsock (is he still in the league?) had been on a team other than the Colts, they'd probably be busts. They aren't all that impressive to me.

I think Polian's best pick was Reggie Wayne. Dallas Clark was a good pick, too, but if you spend a first rounder on a TE you should be getting a decent TE. Look at the Colts offense now...their best guys are Manning, Wayne, and Clark, and all of those guys were drafted years ago. I don't think the new guys have added anything to the Colts offense other than Addai's good 2/3 season.

Again, Polian is a fine GM, but IMO the credit given to Peyton Manning is well-deserved. He has a pretty mediocre supporting cast this year, yet the Colts are undefeated.

Addai had his best years when he was splitting carries because he has a history of getting banged up . If Polian has one big drafting weakness it would be that the Colts seem to LOVE smaller guys which results in too many injuries . Addai was at or near pro bowl level for his first and second year but when asked to carry the load by himself last year the decrease was noticeble .... every week he was questionable . So they tried to bring Brown in to re-create that effect it would seem . Plus Polian has always been a "draft the best player on the board" kind of guy .

Gonzalez according to Manning and co was set to break out this year and has done "ok" in past seasons which I know isin't great for a first rounder but imo it's still way to early to be judging how good/bad he is right now .

And I would be the last person to take any credit away from Manning , I love Manning . I would think every Colts fan should love Manning for helping take us from nothing to a contender every year . But the bottom line is ..... if Manning left tomorrow , would I trust Polian to find us a QB who can do a good job in the draft? 100% I would ...... no doubt in my mind that he would find somebody if Manning was to leave . Would he be another Peyton Manning and carry our team? hell no ..... but we are talking about a guy who may go down as the best quarterback ever .

Polian drafts good peices (generally) and of course Manning makes them look even better than they probably are . No doubt about that . I just think it's more of a two way deal than just being the Indianapolis Mannings

 

[ralaw]

But don't you think it says something that after Polian spent a 1st round pick on Addai, three years later he had to spend another 1st round pick on a RB because Addai was so ineffective? Isn't that like the Bears drafting Cedric Benson then a couple years later drafting Matt Forte?

In my opinion, the offensive guys that Polian has drafted in the high rounds in recent years have been mediocre. I think if Donald Brown, Anthony Gonzalez, Joseph Addai, Mike Pollack, Ben Hartsock (is he still in the league?) had been on a team other than the Colts, they'd probably be busts. They aren't all that impressive to me.

I think Polian's best pick was Reggie Wayne. Dallas Clark was a good pick, too, but if you spend a first rounder on a TE you should be getting a decent TE. Look at the Colts offense now...their best guys are Manning, Wayne, and Clark, and all of those guys were drafted years ago. I don't think the new guys have added anything to the Colts offense other than Addai's good 2/3 season.

Again, Polian is a fine GM, but IMO the credit given to Peyton Manning is well-deserved. He has a pretty mediocre supporting cast this year, yet the Colts are undefeated.

I have to agree with Senser. I'm not sure people really realize how valuable Peyton Manning is to this organization. Manning is the reason for this team's consistency over the past 10+ seasons. I heard a piece on the Colts offense over the weekend and basically the talk was about how all Polian has to do is draft guys who have some intelligence, because Manning is directing every player on the offensive end every play. That is impressive considering what NFL defenses are doing these days.

 

[Primetime]

Yea.......Favre never said it was a revenge game.

 

[Bear Pand]

lol at me giving credit to Polian for drafting well and that being borderline retarded. Colts are easily one of the top teams in the league in terms of drafting and Polian did a good job with the Panthers and Bills (3 super bowl appearances, 2 NFL Executive of the Year Awards, brought Jim Kelly and Marv Levy to buffalo)..

Yeah Peyton is good but Polian also drafted him.

lol at Brown "sitting on the bench"

 

[Archer]

I have to agree with Senser. I'm not sure people really realize how valuable Peyton Manning is to this organization. Manning is the reason for this team's consistency over the past 10+ seasons. I heard a piece on the Colts offense over the weekend and basically the talk was about how all Polian has to do is draft guys who have some intelligence, because Manning is directing every player on the offensive end every play. That is impressive considering what NFL defenses are doing these days.

It's like I said .... Polian generally drafts good smart kids who have the right attitude with talent to go along with it . Sure Manning makes them look better than any other qb in the NFL would ... I don't think anybody could ever argue this .

And I would hate to think any Colts fans are under-appreciating Manning . He took us from 3-13 to a sb winner and a team that everybody feared year in year out .

It's a great partnership in my opinion . Manning loves to give the credit to Polian and he does the same to Manning .

 

[Bear Pand]

It's pointless arguing with senser, when I said Polian never misses I didn't mean every offensive player he drafts starts, you obviously have to draft backups too. Dude just loves to argue semantics. Like it's really a knock on Polian for drafting players like Curtis Painter to play backup roles.

 

[ralaw]

It's like I said .... Polian generally drafts good smart kids who have the right attitude with talent to go along with it . Sure Manning makes them look better than any other qb in the NFL would ... I don't think anybody could ever argue this .

And I would hate to think any Colts fans are under-appreciating Manning . He took us from 3-13 to a sb winner and a team that everybody feared year in year out .

It's a great partnership in my opinion . Manning loves to give the credit to Polian and he does the same to Manning .

I think Polian should be given credit for drafting the right character and guys who fit into the system, because I have a hard time believing some of the guys he's drafted would last long on other teams, which is why I give Manning all the praise. IMO what Manning does is just amazing.

 

[ThunderHorse]

As usual, Killa Pand's comments about the Colts are borderline retarded. Its the typical Killa Pand NFL-related posting...its factually incorrect, its completely illogical, and, in fact, the opposite is probably true.

Peyton Manning is what makes the Colts go.

I would suggest that the Colts don't need to go after offensive free agents or make trades for offense because Manning will make do with whomever they draft. This is a huge benefit for the Colts salary cap...they can rely on young, less-paid talent than spending big money on free agents. Also, the Colts spend an inordinate amount of draft picks on offense, making it less likely for them to need offensive players from outside the organization.

The salary cap has basically made it impossible for teams to make player for player deals. I don't know if other NFL teams can say their offense is made up entirely of homegrown talent, but I can glimpse the Steelers offense and see that basically the entire starting offense was drafted by Pittsburgh. Justin Hartwig played for the Titans, but guys like Roethlisberger, Ward, Miller, Holmes, Mendenhall, Parker, etc. were all signed by the Steelers out of college.

Lastly, the claim that Polian never misses on an offensive player is absurd. Polian is a fine GM, but his drafts have been awful lately. I'm going to list the offensive players Polian has taken in the last few years.

Brown (1st round RB sits on bench)
Collie (starting to play)
Painter
Thomas
Pollak (decent, but he was a 2nd round pick)
Tamme
Santi
Justice
Mike Hart (!)
Garcon (props, he actually plays)
Richard
Toudoze
Johnson (bad, but a starter)
Gandy
Hunt
Rayner
Davis
Gonzalez (this guy was a 1st round pick?)
Ugoh (awful)
Hall
Addai (had 2/3 of a good season...also a 1st round pick)



A lot of bad picks in that group. Amazing that two recent first rounders were spent on RBs. The only picks with any production were the WR picks...because Manning is the QB. The Colts O-line is not good, basically due to Polian's drafts.

You know,

Usually when you post something I don't bother say anything, both because of your style of posting, and because most of the time you're right and have factual evidence to back it up. but let's analyze what you said here, because you're looking at it the wrong way.


Brown (First Round pick, has significant playing time this year, looks to be a good contributor.)
Collie (Has been playing in the slot all year, overshadowed by Garcon, A rookie, and has shown some bright spots, any type of speculation of this pick is useless. he's played 4 NFL games.)
Painter(Was drafted as a back up, not intended to be a starter, was drafted for depth, and through the preseason, showed the ability to be a solid BACKUP))
Thomas (a 7th round pick... big deal if it's a miss)
Pollak (decent, but he was a 2nd round pick - Who's started and played well)
Tamme - (Drafted as a back up because we clearly have a tight end, is still used because of the fact he's a versitile player like Clark. He isn't as good as clark, but then again, he was drafted for depth BEHIND clark)
Santi (Literally the same thing as Tamme)
Justice (6th round pick, if it's a miss, I guess every team that has a 6th round pick who's failed is a miss)
Mike Hart (!) (arguably, then again, he also was a, wait for it, 6th round pick!. although he's dealt with injury problems, he hasn't ever really gotten the opportunity to show anything.)
Garcon (props, he actually plays)
Richard (a 7th round pick? that's a miss?)
Toudoze (5th round pick where nothing really happened. granted, he was a 5th round pick.
Johnson (bad, but a starter - 6th round pick that wasn't even drafted in the idea to play the position int he first place. in truth, he was supposed to be playing guard, but because Ugoh was such a bust, he's playing the position until Polian probably drafts one next year.)
Gandy (4th round pick that played a solid amount of time, was never a legitimate starter, never the best at his position, but he sufficed. which is what I believe you expect from a 4th round pick, nobody inherently special, but no one who's terrible.
Hunt (5th round pick who never did anything. however, a 5th round pick
Rayner (a 6th round kicker? seriously?)
Davis (7th round pick who got cut if I remember correctly. It's a 7th rounder, you usually don't expect them to make the team anyway)
Gonzalez (this guy was a 1st round pick? - Yep, and he's been a pretty good one. in the slot he's been a great receiver, who's #'s aren't there but has made a lot of plays for us, an although this year was supposed to be his breakout year, he had the freak injury in the first game of the season. he's no where near a bust, he's been a solid contributor.)
Ugoh (awful - 100% correct)
Hall (If you're talking about Roy Hall, are you talking about the receiver we drafted purely to play defensively on special teams?)
Addai (had 2/3 of a good season...also a 1st round pick)

I mean, your argument applies if you're saying Polian isn't perfect at getting guys late. I mean, sure, the list above shows plenty of 6th and 7th round picks that didn't work, plenty of 4th and 5th round picks who didn't turn out to be superstars, and a 2nd round pick who ended up being the equivelant to a bust.

but look at the starters today on the offense, and what you get is

Manning (first round)
Addai (first round)
Brown (First Round)
Wayne (First Round)
Gonzales (First Round)
Johnson( Sixth Round)
Mike Pollak (Second Round - (Indianapolis' first selection))
Jeff Saturday (URFA)
Ryan Lilja (I believe an URFA)
Ryan Diem (4th round pick)
Dallas Clark (1rst round pick)

That's 7 first overall picks for Indianapolis that are starting for them, 1 mid round pick, 1 late round, and 2 that weren't even drafted.

really, if you want to see Polian's good picks late in the draft, you have to look at the defensive side.

But saying lately Polian's "Missed" is wrong. I don't know many GM's that expect 6th and 7 round picks to be great players.

 

[Senser81]

It's pointless arguing with senser, when I said Polian never misses I didn't mean every offensive player he drafts starts, you obviously have to draft backups too. Dude just loves to argue semantics. Like it's really a knock on Polian for drafting players like Curtis Painter to play backup roles.

LOL at 'semantics'. I'm saying that due to the poor drafting by Polian in the last few years, the Colts offense has regressed. You don't have Edgerrin James, Marvin Harrison, and Marcus Pollard, Tarik Glenn, Dominic Rhodes, etc. You have two 1st rounders in Addai & Brown barely playing up to minimum level, you have a rotation of Gonzalez/Collie/Garcon to replace Harrison, you still haven't found a decent #2 TE despite spending multiple picks on them every year, the offensive line is mediocre at best.

 

[Senser81]

I mean, your argument applies if you're saying Polian isn't perfect at getting guys late. I mean, sure, the list above shows plenty of 6th and 7th round picks that didn't work, plenty of 4th and 5th round picks who didn't turn out to be superstars, and a 2nd round pick who ended up being the equivelant to a bust.

Thats not what I am saying at all. I'm saying the opposite. His high picks of offensive players haven't been good. Thats the main point. Instead of getting a James or a Harrison, he's getting a Joseph Addai or an Anthony Gonzalez.

I listed all the picks to show two things...one, the Colts spend a ton of picks on offense, especially when you consider that the Colts defense is the unit that usually needs the help...and two, to refute Killa Pand's ridiculous claim that Polian never misses on an offensive pick. I don't understand how this can even be an argument...in order to get minimum production from his RBs, Polian has to have a timeshare of TWO 1st round RBs from the last 4 years...and neither one is anything special. Does that sound like a GM who never misses on offensive picks?

 

[Esjay]

LOL at 'semantics'. I'm saying that due to the poor drafting by Polian in the last few years, the Colts offense has regressed. You don't have Edgerrin James, Marvin Harrison, and Marcus Pollard, Tarik Glenn, Dominic Rhodes, etc. You have two 1st rounders in Addai & Brown barely playing up to minimum level, you have a rotation of Gonzalez/Collie/Garcon to replace Harrison, you still haven't found a decent #2 TE despite spending multiple picks on them every year, the offensive line is mediocre at best.

Brown is playing better than you're giving him credit for. I'm on your side with most of the players you listed, though. Addai sucks.

 

[Bear Pand]

LOL at 'semantics'. I'm saying that due to the poor drafting by Polian in the last few years, the Colts offense has regressed. You don't have Edgerrin James, Marvin Harrison, and Marcus Pollard, Tarik Glenn, Dominic Rhodes, etc. You have two 1st rounders in Addai & Brown barely playing up to minimum level, you have a rotation of Gonzalez/Collie/Garcon to replace Harrison, you still haven't found a decent #2 TE despite spending multiple picks on them every year, the offensive line is mediocre at best.

the old number two TE Ben Utecht got signed by the Cincy Bengals in the offseason. He probably would've been their starter but he got a concussion in either training camp or the preseason and is out for the year.

Brown doesn't "barely play" and has two TDs, Addai also has two. Colts running game hasn't been dominant or anything, probably because they're easily leading the league in passing with the rotation of Gonzales/Collie/Garzon and mediocre offensive line.

 

[Senser81]

Brown is playing better than you're giving him credit for. I'm on your side with most of the players you listed, though. Addai sucks.

OK...even if Brown is playing well, at the very least, IMO, the mere selection of Brown a couple seasons after the selection of Addai should indicate a "miss" on Polian's part.