This "Wide Nine" Thing...

[Deviant]

...uhh, I don't get it. And teams seem to be capitalizing on how stupid it is (i.e. Ryan Fitzpatrick's QB sneak right up the fucking middle). Why was Jim Washburn so overblown in the off-season as a loss for the Titans? What's the point of this retarded as defensive set up?

 

[Obst]

Detroit uses it too. If you have the right personnel it's a good defense. You have to have good linebackers to fill the gaps, something Philadelphia does not have.

 

[Senser81]

It seemed like Buffalo could run up the middle on Philadelphia at any point during the game.

 

[Tailback U]

Detroit uses it too. If you have the right personnel it's a good defense. You have to have good linebackers to fill the gaps, something Philadelphia does not have.

And good DTackles, obviously, to maintain gap control. Jenkins and Patterson are both good, but haven't been playing as dominantly as they should be.

Works better for a team like Detroit because they are so stout at DT and have Tulloch in the middle.

 

[Blade]

Fat Defensive lineman are a plus but more importantly strong LBs in the middle are REQUIRED for this defensive philosophy. Over 12 years, I think once or twice has Reid drafted a LB higher than the 4th round. He just doesn't believe he needs to get 1st or 2nd round LBs. This was true for many years since he had the luxury of having Trotter for a long stretch, the schemes of Jim Johnson combined with Brian Dawkins who covered up a lot of tackling and Run D mistakes. It's a huge liability now.

Titans have had guys like Keith Bulluck, Stephen Tulloch and Haynesworth in the middle to make this D extremely effective.

I think Washburn's Defense is great........but we need the right personel and better coordination between the line, LBs and the DBs out on the field. All three units look like they are playing seperate game.

 

[Deviant]

This thing is clearly not working for Philadelphia. Maybe I haven't seen enough Detroit games (I didn't even know they ran the same scheme), but I still remember that 3rd and 5 play today and seeing exactly what Fitzpatrick saw: a huge fucking gap in the middle of the defense in that stupid wide nine scheme. They were way too thin. There's no excuse for the play at the line of scrimmage to be a QB Run up the middle on 3RD AND 5, nevertheless let it go for a ten yard gain. There are just plays where they just look way too thin on defense. It just looks laughable to me.

 

[1ke]

Anyone got an X and O's type diagram. Ive only heard about it, and havent seen much. But Im curious to see/know what the hell it is.

 

[Obst]

A 9 technique calls for the defensive end to be on the outside shoulder of the tight end, the linebackers have to move inside to cover these gaps in the defense. While this does give the ends tremendous pass rushing potential from this alignment, it can be detrimental against the run because in reality, there IS no second tight end, so the set looks more like this

Considering the idea that most of the Eagles’ interior defensive linemen are pretty average, it makes it very easy to run right up the middle and let offensive linemen move up to block linebackers unhindered. If an offense were to run to the right, they don’t even need to account for the right defensive end! That dreadful scenario looks like this

http://outoftowneagle.wordpress.com/2011/08/08/phillys-new-look-will-the-defense-work-part-i/

So like Tailback said, when you have Suh and Fairley in the middle with Tulloch behind them, this defense is very hard to play against. When you have Jenkins and Patterson with Casey Mathews (not anymore) in the middle, it's a little easier to get them blocked and get big gains when someone like Ahmad Bradshaw is one on one with a shitty safety in the open field.

 

[Deviant]

Alright, I do understand the Wide Nine. I call it that cheap shit cheeser like to do in Madden. I just don't get why the Eagles use it.

Essentially, the reason why it's called the wide nine is because of the gaps.

This a two-TE I-Form set. The gaps are indicated in red. Between the C-G is 1, G-T is 3, T-TE is 5, and outside the TE is 7. This is just to indicate distance. Now, you know that asshole in Madden who likes to move their DE as far to the outside as they can so he can have a straight shot at the quarterback without being completely out of position? That's essentially the "nine gap".

So, those are the gaps. Here's a base 4-3 defense with a diagram of the gaps.

You can see where the defenders are supposed to go and the gaps they're responsible for. The DEs have to go against the TE/T and use creative moves to get around their man. Here's the Wide Nine.

The Wide Nine sucks all creativity out of the equation and says "just run in a straight line to the quarterback." See how the ends are lined up farther than the linebackers? This now leaves your tackles and your linebackers as your only five in the box. You're asking your defensive tackles to absolutely take up space and your linebackers to be at their absolute best.

Now, obviously, the I-Form isn't really where you want to use the Wide Nine. The Wide Nine succeeds as a pass rush generator (basically capitalizing on the fact that we're in a pass dominant league). So, in a four wide formation, this makes MUCH more sense.

Those big tackles are now being asked to come all the way out from that 4 gap to the 9 in order to stop the rusher. So basically, you have a mismatch of the end's speed versus the tackle's size. Speed will usually win so you pretty much a have clean easy shot at the quarterback every time. The obvious weakness is against the run. But, as mentioned, if you have size at the tackle position and solid linebackers, that doesn't matter.

 

[Atlas]

this isnt anything new, its been around for a while... btw, i love when VSNers break down this type of thing, lol...

 

[Senser81]

this isnt anything new, its been around for a while... btw, i love when VSNers break down this type of thing, lol...

Imagine hitting the R2 button on defense before the snap...Wide 9!

Imagine me breaking your face...KEN PATERA!

 

[Deviant]

this isnt anything new, its been around for a while... btw, i love when VSNers break down this type of thing, lol...

I've honestly never seen it used as much as Philly is using it. Possibly because I'm a Giants fan, so I don't see it as much as I do now and its getting exploited.

 

[Atlas]

I've honestly never seen it used as much as Philly is using it. Possibly because I'm a Giants fan, so I don't see it as much as I do now and its getting exploited.

that's b/c most teams dont use it, save for passing situations... also, i dont know wtf senser's post means, but if its a shot at me, i'm moving warner to #1 in my rankings...

 

[Senser81]

You don't know who Ken Patera is?

 

[dell71]

Basically Wide 9 is a great defense to play against Andy Reid coached teams, not for Andy Reid coached teams.
TXT8026/T05_0 UP.Browser/6.2.3.2 (GUI) MMP/2.0

 

[Warner2BruceTD]

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[Mogriffjr]

Eagles don't have the personnel to run this shit...besides the good ends...they need a stout DT imo and better LB's.

 

[Cryolemon]

Based on those diagrams you might as well run a 2-5. At least then you can have a bit of confusion as to who is rushing the QB.

 

[Blade]

Problem isn't the pass rush with the Birds. It's basics like tackling. Once the RBs get through those big ole gaps, at the second level everyone keeps missing all the tackles either because they are too small or they have poor technique.

All the teams the Eagles have faced have pretty much run the same running plays with the same type of back, up the gut or off tackle with a bruiser like Jacobs, Turner, Fred and Steven Jackson. If Steven Jackson had stayed healthy that game, who knows we probably woulda lost Week 1 as well.

 

[Deviant]

Problem isn't the pass rush with the Birds. It's basics like tackling.

Or just not having DEFENSIVE TACKLES in front of the QB and letting Ryan Fitzpatrick walk his way to 10 yards on a 3rd and 5. I'm sorry, but there's just no excuse for that. That's instant firing.