Trading Calvin Johnson

[Nukleopatra]

Exactly how many WRs in the NFL are ''top 5 at their position?''

Twenty?

 

[Nukleopatra]

Worst. Thread. Ever.

You would have to be retarded to trade Calvin Johnson. He's top 5 at his position, he's young (5 productive seasons left minimum). What are you going to get from the draft that is better than a young player proven to be top 5 at his position? Isn't that what you aim to draft in the first place?

Since the draft is a crapshoot anyway, you are just as likely to end up with a bust (a complete cap drain) and a solid starter. For more money then you would pay CJ.

I'm expecting him to be a Redskin shortly.

I was referring to this, Glen. Top 5 talent, I can live with. I'm just trying to figure out how so many WRs in the NFL can fit into the top 5. At this point, Megatron isn't even better than S. Rice.

 

[GangstaE]

Honestly if you can get a package of proven young players to build from with draft picks you should do it if not then dnt Stafford needs Megatron even if the Lions need a team.

 

[Sven Draconian]

I was referring to this, Glen. Top 5 talent, I can live with. I'm just trying to figure out how so many WRs in the NFL can fit into the top 5. At this point, Megatron isn't even better than S. Rice.

What do you base your criteria for top 5? I go off talent.

 

[Nukleopatra]

What do you base your criteria for top 5? I go off talent.

I go by production.

Ryan Leaf was one of the most talented quarterbacks I've ever seen.

Steve Breaston is talented - he's certainly top 5 material.

 

[Prodigal Son]

 

[Nukleopatra]

Route Running :shifty:

Larry Fitzgerald produces, so an argument can be made.

I don't see how any person can make a case for Calvin Johnson being top 5 at his position, at this time. Excuses why he isn't? Sure. ''He plays for Detroit.'' Boo-fucking-hoo. He's talented, so he's top 5? DHB is talented, too. Let's toss his ass on the top 5 while we're at it. Is it me or is there a new WR every week, that's on the top 5? Michael Crabtree will be top 5 by week 16.

You can say ''well, put him in Dallas, and he'd produce.'' Maybe he would. Then again, Roy Williams hasn't, who by the way, is a fairly talented guy. Miles Austin is more productive than both Williams and Megatron.

 

[Nukleopatra]

Tired schtick. How do you not understand the concept of a team game? DHB is talented? Really? I can't believe I'm being baited in by you, but now I think you are just autistic with a fixation on making shitty arguments. I'd be shocked if you even have watched a Lions game with Johnson in it.

Btw, if you want to get more than he's worth, call Al Davis. Although, according to Nuk, DHB is worth every cent of the top money he's been paid.

I actually think DHB stinks, which is my point. Are you saying he doesn't have talent? Is talent enough to make you a top 5 NFL WR? It' a team game, yes, of course. Let's look at some of the players more productive than Calvin Johnson, who are also playing for bad football teams.

Santonio Holmes - Ranked 3rd in the NFL, and plays for a struggling football team.
Steve Smith - Ranked 7th in the NFL, plays for a struggling football team.
Roddy White - Ranked 15th, plays for a struggling football team.
Nate Burleson - Ranked 2oth, plays for a team who can't even break .500 in the NFC West.

And then we have Calvin Johnson - ranked 22nd in the NFL, who is barely more productive than Mike Walker of the Jacksonville Jaguars. Who the fuck is Mike Walker, anyway?

Calvin Johnson is not a top 5 NFL WR. He wouldn't even break my top 10. And this is not part of my ''schtick.''

 

[Nukleopatra]

And by the way, I live in Michigan, so I get the pleasure of seeing them play every week, and the pleasure of listening to the fans bitch and moan about how shitty the team is. Yes, they are shitty, but at the same time, Calvin Johnson hasn't proven jack shit. You take the Pittsburgh Steelers, who right now, would have a hard time even beating the Lions - yet, they have a WR who is good enough to still be productive... and I'm talking about top 3 productive. Now THAT'S a God damn football player.

So, excuse me, if it's takes a little more than some nickname, which a fucking 4 year old would think of, to impress me. When ''Megatron'' starts being productive, I'll start believing the hype. At this moment, though, he's just Roy Williams Part 2.

 

[Nukleopatra]

Pittsburgh beat the Lions this year and Roy Williams who has the mentality of a "fucking 4 year old" gave him the nickname. Maybe you should watch your Michigan tv with the Michigan sports news more often.

You living in Michigan explains a lot.

Two words, motherfucker.

Nate
Burleson

When Calvin Johnson starts being as productive as Nate Burleson, we'll bring up this top 5 discussion again.

 

[Sven Draconian]

And by the way, I live in Michigan, so I get the pleasure of seeing them play every week, and the pleasure of listening to the fans bitch and moan about how shitty the team is. Yes, they are shitty, but at the same time, Calvin Johnson hasn't proven jack shit. You take the Pittsburgh Steelers, who right now, would have a hard time even beating the Lions - yet, they have a WR who is good enough to still be productive... and I'm talking about top 3 productive. Now THAT'S a God damn football player.

So, excuse me, if it's takes a little more than some nickname, which a fucking 4 year old would think of, to impress me. When ''Megatron'' starts being productive, I'll start believing the hype. At this moment, though, he's just Roy Williams Part 2.

You want something better than his stats last season (1330, 12 TD)...on an 0-16 team...with Dan Orlovsky.

It is asinine to assume that someone would rank talent without production. A certain level of production must be met and talent is far more than combine numbers (route running, hands, breaking tackles). Once a player proves to be productive (as Calvin Johnson has) a down season doesn't knock him out of the top 5 receivers.

Once a player proves he can produce at a certain level, yearly fluctuations don't negate his status. Did Brett Favre really change his talent level for years at a time? Did Brees? Warner? Moss?

Or did the surrounding cast and other circumstances (coaching, injuries, ect) limit the production of good players.

 

[Nukleopatra]

I don't give a fuck about top 5. You think the dude is overrated. Why don't you look at situational shit? I would, but that's your thing. LOL@you live in Michigan. Are you the first manlady? Top 3 Goddamn football player. How many Superbowl coaches does Calvin have coaching him? How many Superbowl winning qb's are throwing him the ball? How many Superbowl winning defenses are keeping Calvin on the field?

I'm done. Go bait your mom into arguing about why she raised such a dickhead.

Nate Burleson isn't even their #1 WR.

Dude, I love you, man - You're one of my favorite posters, but I just gotta say this one thing.

 

[Nukleopatra]

Warner? Moss?.

Hell, there's a great comparison.

I mean, Randy Moss has only had how many 1,000 yard seasons? 10?

Dude, Nate Burleson. I want to know what makes ''Megatron'' better than Nate Burleson, right now, in 2009.

 

[citizenerased]

More touchdowns and only 50 yards less, having played two less games?

 

[Nukleopatra]

More Touchdowns and only 50 yards less, having played two less games?

There you go.

Now this I can accept. You didn't compare a one hit wonder to three future hall of famers - you gave an honest, and well thought out example of why Calvin Johnson is better than Nate Burleson.

I'd give you three ''thanks'' if I could.

 

[Sven Draconian]

There you go.

Now this I can accept. You didn't compare a one hit wonder to three future hall of famers - you gave an honest, and well thought out example of why Calvin Johnson is better than Nate Burleson.

I'd give you three ''thanks'' if I could.

So, you feel the top players at each position fluctuate yearly based on production?

 

[Nukleopatra]

So, you feel the top players at each position fluctuate yearly based on production?

I'm saying that an NFL player shouldn't be considered as one of the top 5 at his position, without having more than one good season. Especially when that season ended up being one of the worst seasons in NFL history.

Koren Robinson also had a good season once.
Darrell Jackson had a couple of good seasons.

How many top 5 lists did they make? I'm just guessing here, but probably none. I'll hold off on listing the guy a bust, but I seriously lol @ him being even close to a top 5 player at his position. He's not even top 10. Is he capable of being top 5? Yes. He's a talented guy. But there's a lot of talented players, who had a good season, that ended up falling on their ass. And to compare him to the likes of Warner, Favre and Randy Moss? Seriously, man - Nate Burleson. Again, Nate Burleson.

 

[Sven Draconian]

I'm saying that an NFL player shouldn't be considered as one of the top 5 at his position, without having more than one good season. Especially when that season ended up being one of the worst seasons in NFL history.

Koren Robinson also had a good season once.
Darrell Jackson had a couple of good seasons.

How many top 5 lists did they make? I'm just guessing here, but probably none. I'll hold off on listing the guy a bust, but I seriously lol @ him being even close to a top 5 player at his position. He's not even top 10. Is he capable of being top 5? Yes. He's a talented guy. But there's a lot of talented players, who had a good season, that ended up falling on their ass. And to compare him to the likes of Warner, Favre and Randy Moss? Seriously, man - Nate Burleson. Again, Nate Burleson.

So circumstances mean nothing? Rookie season 750 yards, year 2 1330, this year he'll push 1000. These numbers despite missing large parts of games with injury. On an awful team with no other receiving threats and a rookie QB.

Yet you compare him to a guy who's best career season (2004) had 330 fewer yards. Johnson, should by this season, have more yards than Burleson put up between 2005 and 2008 But that's the comparison you choose to make. Exact same situation.


No, I get what your criteria is for ranking players. Whatever lets you be the contrarian. I wouldn't be shocked if you post at another message board and argue that Calvin Johnson is the best receiver in the NFL because others are bashing him.

I'll just assume you're actually smart enough to realize the stupidity of the things you post and chalk it up to feeding the troll. I hope you like muffins.

 

[Nukleopatra]

So circumstances mean nothing? Rookie season 750 yards, year 2 1330, this year he'll push 1000. On an awful team with no other receiving threats and a rookie QB. of thee troll.

No.

Issac Bruce once put up a 1700 yard season, which was followed up with a 1300 yard season. The offense was ranked like 20th both seasons. Issac Bruce was just that good. Our offense wasn't all that much better than the Detroit Lions the last few seasons.. Hell, I think back in 2007 Detroit had the 9th best passing offense.

So, yeah, let's write your lack of ground to stand on, as me just being a troll. I mean, Christ, how ridiculously far fetched is it, that a person would ever claim that Calvin Johnson isn't clearly a top 5 WR in the NFL.

lmao.

Doesn't Detroit have the 20th best passing offense in the NFL? Which is better than Cincinnati, yet Chad Johnson is ranked 15 spots higher than Calvin Johnson. Carolina is ranked 28th in passing offense, yet Steve Smith is only 2 yards behind Calvin Johnson, with 1 more TD.

Oops, there I go trolling again.

 

[ChemTheThriller]

I'll agree with the above poster, first of all you can get a WR anytime, second, I would trade him next year and get picks for the year that the rookie salaries are capped, thus you can get high picks without breaking the bank... Sometimes in chess the best move is knowing when to sacrifice a piece. This looks horrible on paper right away but they may be able to build quicker without him and take another WR in the 2-3 where talent is still available...