EA Sports to give up exclusive rights to NCAA Football Games

[ThunderHorse]

2K's A.I system was much better and used real football concepts. Your player would use the appropriate animation as opposed to madden where he'll do a backflip, handstand soulja boy dougie catch when he could just reach his arms out. Not only that, but the ball wasn't static, it was a separate entity like 2k hockey's puck. I'll post a video of mine about that.

Also, not only that, but the blocking was brilliant and positions were actually useful. A good defensive end made his presence and would get you hell unless you did something as opposed to Madden where Jared Allen is less valuable than a 60 ovr LB who has 90 speed.

Better players would show up and it was apparent. It was awesome. It involved gameplanning and gave me my most intense and fun games I've ever had.

I'll disagree about the blocking but only to an extent. 2K8 still didn't program guys to turn around, so once your O-lineman got to the point no one was in front of him he'd just keep running, he wouldn't turn around and find someone to block.

But the point I wholeheartedly agree with is the fact that what made this game was the Matchups. I don't think a lot of people understood that, and I think that's kind of why the game died like it did. 2K8 is ALL about matchups, it's all about where you decide to put your talent. like you said, if you have a Gold, or even Silver defensive end, he's going to make his presence known, he's going to be effective in the pass rush, you would not only see but feel a legitimate difference between a generic defensive end (no intense worries), a Bronze Defensive end like Dexter Manley (Can give you trouble but isn't going to break your gameplan), and a gold like Reggie White (Is going to completely change the way you attack the defense).

A gold QB makes throws a Bronze can't, Gold HB's are able to do moves faster and do more with less momentum, Gold WR's like Rice are absolutely a problem to deal with.

In this game you can make a power run team with a strong defense and they will play like a power run team with strong defense, and the way "abilities" worked in the game was awesome, because you actually took ADVANTAGE of those abilities. you used those things and you considered these things when putting your team together. If I've got a guy like Gale Sayers, who's going to return kicks, I might not need a Lem Barney, Ricky Sanders, Rocket Ishmael, etc. if I've got a gold quarterback I can afford to have less talent at the wide receiver position because I know my guy is going to make the throws, but on top of that, if I have a gold QB like Marino throwing to Rice, it's going to be a TOUGH game for the defense assuming I know how to play. and that's how it SHOULD be.

But Really, Abilities completely make the difference in players in this game, Dick "Night Train" Lane plays differently than Rod Woodson even though they're both gold cornerbacks. Lane is going to be a force in the run game, He's going to get off of blocks, he's going to bust heads, he's still going to make plays on the ball but he can't cover like Rod Woodson, he can't read O's like Woodson, and he doesn't have the return ability of Woodson. On the flipside, Woodson isn't usually going to knock someone out but with Lane you better keep your head on a swivel.

[Rip]

I'll disagree about the blocking but only to an extent. 2K8 still didn't program guys to turn around, so once your O-lineman got to the point no one was in front of him he'd just keep running, he wouldn't turn around and find someone to block.

But the point I wholeheartedly agree with is the fact that what made this game was the Matchups. I don't think a lot of people understood that, and I think that's kind of why the game died like it did. 2K8 is ALL about matchups, it's all about where you decide to put your talent. like you said, if you have a Gold, or even Silver defensive end, he's going to make his presence known, he's going to be effective in the pass rush, you would not only see but feel a legitimate difference between a generic defensive end (no intense worries), a Bronze Defensive end like Dexter Manley (Can give you trouble but isn't going to break your gameplan), and a gold like Reggie White (Is going to completely change the way you attack the defense).

A gold QB makes throws a Bronze can't, Gold HB's are able to do moves faster and do more with less momentum, Gold WR's like Rice are absolutely a problem to deal with.

In this game you can make a power run team with a strong defense and they will play like a power run team with strong defense, and the way "abilities" worked in the game was awesome, because you actually took ADVANTAGE of those abilities. you used those things and you considered these things when putting your team together. If I've got a guy like Gale Sayers, who's going to return kicks, I might not need a Lem Barney, Ricky Sanders, Rocket Ishmael, etc. if I've got a gold quarterback I can afford to have less talent at the wide receiver position because I know my guy is going to make the throws, but on top of that, if I have a gold QB like Marino throwing to Rice, it's going to be a TOUGH game for the defense assuming I know how to play. and that's how it SHOULD be.

But Really, Abilities completely make the difference in players in this game, Dick "Night Train" Lane plays differently than Rod Woodson even though they're both gold cornerbacks. Lane is going to be a force in the run game, He's going to get off of blocks, he's going to bust heads, he's still going to make plays on the ball but he can't cover like Rod Woodson, he can't read O's like Woodson, and he doesn't have the return ability of Woodson. On the flipside, Woodson isn't usually going to knock someone out but with Lane you better keep your head on a swivel.

Well I can agree with that when it comes to blocking, but when it comes to having a REAL pocket is was brilliant. I absolutely love having to charge up to make throws, moves and hits. The thing that enrages me with madden is that the pocket is a joke, they look like robots and they literally will run up the field attacking the safety instead of letting the same LB in for a nano blitz.

You're very right that a player made his presence. The animations are just beautiful too and there was real momentum, not this EA crud. I remember having I think Willie Brown (on that Raider team video I posted) across the line from a bronze receiver (Willie Gault, pretty weak guy) and I ran a cover 0 as that's very similar to what hte 60s and 70s Raiders did and Brown literally pushed Gault over. It's stuff like that.

The catching animations, running animations, ALL animations were fantastic. The use of game planning was great too. My buddy and I would always play each other and make fun teams and try to emulate a style or team.

Thinking back, passing felt so right. Nothing felt better than driving up the field, especially late in the game, and throwing for a touchdown. The defense was actually fun too and the tip drill is something Madden hasn't and never will get right. Returning interceptions actually felt real too.

A modern 2k game would be absolutely amazing and would require madden to work harder and make better games.

[Rip]

There were some awesome gems in silvers, bronzes, and even generic characters though.

Randall Cunningham was a really good silver QB and Kosar was a great bronze. Christian Okoye was borderline overpowered for a halfback too.

Andre Reed was a good silver WR while Alvin Harper, Cliff Branch, Anthony Carter and Dwight clark were really good bronze WR's

Ben Coates at silver TE, Pete Metzelaars at bronze TE, Brad Van Pelt at bronze OLB, Dexter Manley at TE (almost overpowered), Spielman at bronze ILB and all those dudes. Gold TE's were the most underrated though for sure. Never got into getting starred linemen too much.

[ThunderHorse]

There were some awesome gems in silvers, bronzes, and even generic characters though.

Randall Cunningham was a really good silver QB and Kosar was a great bronze. Christian Okoye was borderline overpowered for a halfback too.

Andre Reed was a good silver WR while Alvin Harper, Cliff Branch, Anthony Carter and Dwight clark were really good bronze WR's

Ben Coates at silver TE, Pete Metzelaars at bronze TE, Brad Van Pelt at bronze OLB, Dexter Manley at TE (almost overpowered), Spielman at bronze ILB and all those dudes. Gold TE's were the most underrated though for sure. Never got into getting starred linemen too much.

Yeah,

you play it enough and certain guys start to jump out at you. Van Pelt is a bitch, flat out (I mean that in a good way). He's big and his reach tackle attribute means he can cover even more ground. it's tough to beat that guy to the edge, you may get some extra yards but you're not getting away.

I played around a little bit with using Starred lineman (you can see it in the vid I posted) and got mixed results. One one side of the coin I had all day to throw the ball (just nobody to throw to lol), but sometimes the lineman were almost TOO effective. I tried using a Gold Guard once, I forgot his name, but he would actually pull so fast that he'd always overrun the guy he was blocking, the Silver Guards seemed to be better at pulling and because they weren't running as fast they'd usually find the block okay.

Matchups Matchup Matchups. Get a Gold TE like Shannon Sharpe or Mike Ditka and have fun being able to seal the edge on run plays and rape linebackers in pass coverage.

Really though the special thing for me is Gold Quarterbacks and how they can make throws nobody else can. It's hard to intercept Marino, Montana, Young, etc. because they always put the ball in the perfect spot. only time you can get them is when they throw off their back foot or off balance and even then you're chances aren't great because they can usually make those throws too (which a HOF QB should be able to do. Right?)

[Rip]

You wanna know who was a beast tight end? John Mackey. Try him out. Arguably the biggest receiving threat behind Jerry Rice.

[Sven Draconian]

The nice thing about 2k8 was I played it enough to essentially break the game. It got to the point where I the game stopped being fun because, much like a single player shooter, you just learn too much about how the AI plays to not beat it (and, 2k8 was a cheese fest online... still played a ton, but not my thing).

The only real issues I had with the game were:
-Generic WRs can't catch. Make them slow, make them poor route runners, but they are still WRs. The amount of wide-open drops was ridiculous. It really forced to to load up on star WRs.

-Gold HBs were over-powered (like all 2k RBs)

-No way to really defend Gold WRs. Even star DBs couldn't stop Gold WRs....

And then the cheese routes (Quick outs, posts).

[ThunderHorse]

There were things you could do to fight those posts and slants but it was tough. The hot routed corner route was cheese at it's finest because you legitimately could not defend the route unless you user'd the corner. However they did allow you to shade to the inside/outside, which is something Madden had earlier on in their series but I don't think I've seen in this generation of consoles. That Shading type of feature helped defend against those out routes especially. However if you've got a CB with some talent you could jump a lot of those passes.

The Generic players usually were garbage, but that's how it's supposed to be. They'd make catches, they'd drop balls too. They aren't great players, not even average, so it's kind of expected. if you want more sure handed guys you fill those WR spots with bronze players.

I mean, in my opinion that's what made the game special and different, if you put your talent into WR it was legitimately different than if you didn't. 3 Bronze Receivers may not be great but they're legitimately better than using the scrubs.

Gold HB's were powerful, but they're HOF RB's. The only ones that were really tough to deal with, borderline cheese, were Campbell and Simpson. I found that the drop in ability and talent from Gold to Silver HB wise is one of the biggest in the game.

[Rip]

Continuing that point: These flaws can all be fixed in an NFL game where there's certain players with certain tendencies instead of generic players. Look at the way 2k5 did it and make it modern. 2k8 was just a twist to the series. A modern 2k5 would be brilliant.

All of those exploits can and would be fixed too in a modern game and 2k would jump on it so they could compete with EA.

[Sven Draconian]

There were things you could do to fight those posts and slants but it was tough. The hot routed corner route was cheese at it's finest because you legitimately could not defend the route unless you user'd the corner. However they did allow you to shade to the inside/outside, which is something Madden had earlier on in their series but I don't think I've seen in this generation of consoles. That Shading type of feature helped defend against those out routes especially. However if you've got a CB with some talent you could jump a lot of those passes.

The Generic players usually were garbage, but that's how it's supposed to be. They'd make catches, they'd drop balls too. They aren't great players, not even average, so it's kind of expected. if you want more sure handed guys you fill those WR spots with bronze players.

I mean, in my opinion that's what made the game special and different, if you put your talent into WR it was legitimately different than if you didn't. 3 Bronze Receivers may not be great but they're legitimately better than using the scrubs.

Gold HB's were powerful, but they're HOF RB's. The only ones that were really tough to deal with, borderline cheese, were Campbell and Simpson. I found that the drop in ability and talent from Gold to Silver HB wise is one of the biggest in the game.

But that doesn't make the game unique, because it forced you to create a certain type of team if you wanted to be successful. You (more or less) had to spend 4 of your stars on skill guys (RB and atleast 3 TE/WR) otherwise you couldn't consistently move the ball. Defensively, that forces you to put atleast 3 star players in the secondary otherwise you just get toasted all game.

So right off the top 7 of your choices are more or less locked in place. So for your last 4 you can either go QB, LB or DL (or even get a 4th receiver/2nd RB).

The game was supposed to be "professional" football. The generics should have basic skills (like the ability to catch a curl route, the ability throw more than 30 yards).

Along with that, the Gold defensive players (mainly DB/LB) were way, way, way underpowered compared to their offensive equivalents (WR/RB), mostly because the they got locked into the same long animations and AI shortcomings as the generic players. Gold CBs could not cover Rice/Biletnikoff ect..., Gold Safeties (Lott, Woodson) still got caught in long animations that forced them to misplay balls in the air.

Generally, the idea team was something like
Gold WR (Rice...)
Gold RB (Sayers, Simpson, Campbell)

3 silver defensive players (maybe Cunningham at QB)

Bronze TE, WR

the rest defense

I applaud the game for keeping me playing long enough to remember that 4 (5?) years after it came out, but it had some major balance issues.

[BigBucs]

As good as it may have been I just couldnt get over the aesthetics and generic teams/players. If the player models looked better and they had smoother running animations I may have brought it but then again fake teams isnt appealing to me.

[ThunderHorse]

But that doesn't make the game unique, because it forced you to create a certain type of team if you wanted to be successful. You (more or less) had to spend 4 of your stars on skill guys (RB and atleast 3 TE/WR) otherwise you couldn't consistently move the ball. Defensively, that forces you to put atleast 3 star players in the secondary otherwise you just get toasted all game.

So right off the top 7 of your choices are more or less locked in place. So for your last 4 you can either go QB, LB or DL (or even get a 4th receiver/2nd RB).

The game was supposed to be "professional" football. The generics should have basic skills (like the ability to catch a curl route, the ability throw more than 30 yards).

Along with that, the Gold defensive players (mainly DB/LB) were way, way, way underpowered compared to their offensive equivalents (WR/RB), mostly because the they got locked into the same long animations and AI shortcomings as the generic players. Gold CBs could not cover Rice/Biletnikoff ect..., Gold Safeties (Lott, Woodson) still got caught in long animations that forced them to misplay balls in the air.

Generally, the idea team was something like
Gold WR (Rice...)
Gold RB (Sayers, Simpson, Campbell)

3 silver defensive players (maybe Cunningham at QB)

Bronze TE, WR

the rest defense

I applaud the game for keeping me playing long enough to remember that 4 (5?) years after it came out, but it had some major balance issues.

Can't argue with the above. Because it's true, but this is usually what you get from Lobby games.

Like Madden 2K used to and in some places still has a small community that will "police" themselves (much like we do with our leagues such as Atlas' OD's or some of the Madden leagues). But it was a problem and eventually you did start playing the same game over and over again. it's almost like how everyone in the world always uses the best team in Madden whenever you play a quick ranked game. you can see in my video that one of the teams has nothing but gold and silver players in the defensive backfield. and this is because everyone I played had a gold QB and a couple of Silver WR's, it got to the point, just like you said, I HAD to make my team like that. it doesn't help that because the game has been out for so long without update that every gimick, glitch, and imperfection has been found, perfected, and abused by the few that are left in the small 2K online community.

[ThunderHorse]

As good as it may have been I just couldnt get over the aesthetics and generic teams/players. If the player models looked better and they had smoother running animations I may have brought it but then again fake teams isnt appealing to me.

I think this goes deeper.

I felt like this when the game first came out, I stopped playing it eventually, the only thing that stopped me from taking it back to gamestop and trading it in was the fact that VERY QUICKLY the amount of $ they were offering dropped significantly. I mean they were selling it for $5 out of gamestop used and I don't believe the game had been out a year.

In time though, usually in the spring and start of summer, I always get tired of Madden, I always get tired of NCAA, and I end up giving the 2K games (both of them) some playing time. It's a nice change of pace.

I digress though, I think this goes deeper because I know that I absolutely love the sport. I mean, I really love football, and I just want to play a good football video game. Now when the season starts, I'm probably going to want to play Madden more because that's what I'm seeing on Television, that's what I care about, in the offseason when there's no football it's easier to pick up the 2K games. on the flipside, with all the mods out there you can get NFL teams in 2K8, it's tricky but you can make it work.

I just get annoyed with the fact that 2K had some great things going, some really realistic and cool features, and Madden didn't even try to piggy back off of some of that stuff. 2K had some LEGIT stuff and Madden hasn't even tried to copy or one-up any of it. I've said it before but their "Juke" mechanic is a fucking joke. The hitstick has turned into a fucking joke. the passing game is supposed to be better but now we have to wait to see if they're just going to nuke user defense like they did with NCAA 13.

[Argath]

I'm pretty sure one of the reasons EA never used ideas from the 2k games is because they're copyrighted and didn't want to risk a lawsuit.. Same reason why a lot of good features from madden are not in 2k games

[ThunderHorse]

I'm pretty sure one of the reasons EA never used ideas from the 2k games is because they're copyrighted and didn't want to risk a lawsuit.. Same reason why a lot of good features from madden are not in 2k games

Obviously you can't outright TAKE a feature.

but 2K put in the "big hit", which is the same thing. Madden could have done some things with disguising defenses, formation shifts (used to have them btw), ball carrier moves, etc. they just haven't.

It bothers me that 2K had such an innovative interface with ball carrier controls in 2008 and EA still can't really compare.

[Sven Draconian]

I'm pretty sure one of the reasons EA never used ideas from the 2k games is because they're copyrighted and didn't want to risk a lawsuit.. Same reason why a lot of good features from madden are not in 2k games

"Weapons" were a pretty obvious copy of "skills" from 2k8, they just were not done as well.

To me, Madden has always been about user-skills first and foremost. Give the user as much control as possible, let him trigger any move with anybody he wants and sprinkle in some ratings and team names to keep people happy. There has never been enough of a ratings spread and other than Spectacular Catch, the ratings never really unlock an ability. Speed (and eventually acceleration/agility play a part) are the only really noticeable difference.

2k put the focus on the players on the field. This took control away from the user. Top flight players (be it in 2k8 or 2k5) have more moves and different animations than ordinary players. This was maybe a bit over-emphasized at times (Ricky Williams/Earl Campbell being the Juggernaut springs to mind), but there were clear and well defined differences between teams and players.

This has always been the crux of the debate. Guys who are really good at Madden love their user control and ability to "play" the game. Cool beans. Guys who loved 2k loved the variety in players and games. Cool beans. Madden has slowly been moving towards adding that variety in players, but they seem apprehensive to take away user-control.