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  • SethMode
    Master of Mysticism
    • Feb 2009
    • 5754

    Originally posted by Villain
    Got some disagreements for you about how things are set up.

     

    *Lady Stoneheart doesn't appear until the end of the book. In my opinion, I think revealing her to the TV viewers so soon after the Red Wedding would be premature I'm fine with agreeing to disagree with this, but I don't think where it appears in the books should really be relevant. Like I said, we think she's dead in the books and then find out all this stuff we didn't know at the time, way after the fact. I think that works fine on a page, but 1) the show clearly doesn't like to do flashbacks; and 2) they clearly don't mind drastically changing the order of when things happen in the book vs. the show (No Coldhands, the Reeds, every single thing involving Theon, Jaime arriving before the Purple Wedding...so I don't think the show should necessarily be stringently tied to the books.

    *Dany's victory at Yunkai is set up basically the same was as it had been in the book. She gets two relatively easy victories at the smaller two slave cities and so she is riding high, seeming to be invincible. I like how they ended her season that way since it gives the TV viewers the impression that she cannot be stopped. Of course we know that her new slave population becomes dead, useless weight as her first real test as Queen comes to Meereen but foreshadowing that would've taken too much time. The Meereen campaign deserves its own season since so much happens. This is fair, I just really feel like Dany is set up to make viewers hate her. Unless the D&D have great plans for spicing up her story, they set up this invincibility of hers and give it almost too much credence with it being the season finale. I know that in the books she was riding high at this point, but I've heard more than one person already say that they're ready for Dany to march on Westeros. Good luck with that! haha I like the scene in the book, I just felt it was a weak way to end the season, with so many more things to tell/set up

    *The absence of Coldhands is where we agree. It almost makes me think that he might be omitted from the show, as I would've expected to see him when we saw all of those crows flying around Sam and Gilly after he killed the Other. Or, since Bran's story doesn't really have a ton of events, they could just be saving him for next season in order to stretch that arc's screen time.

    *They didn't talk about how Lady Stark was thrown into the river until much later than the Red Wedding as far as I can remember from the book. It was like, everyone died and then you found out details from other sources later. The fact that she was in the water for like 2 weeks or something and washed far downstream lends to the TV guys making the right call on not revealing Lady Stoneheart yet. She's going to look fucked up as hell - it wasn't like the Brotherhood was in attendance of the Wedding.

    *If I had it my way, episode 10 would've been longer and the teasers would've included any or all of: (1) a peek over the Wall from Castle Black at Mance Rayder's army amassing on the opposite side or at least spotted in the distance, (2) Coldhands - totally with you there, (3) Balon Greyjoy dying, or (4) some kind of foreshadowing in regards to Joffrey's Wedding mixed in with the clear view that the Lannisters have won the War of the Five Kings. 100% on board with you here. I'd sacrifice wanting Stoneheart's reveal for literally ANY of those things -- also, am I the only one that was really thinking Yara was going to kill Balon in that scene when she defied him? That's a storyline that is obviously SO different from the books, I really have no clue where they are going with it.


    In all, I liked that this last episode was at least a break in the blood, gore, and shock that we all suffered in Episode 9.
    Great post! I put my thoughts in bold. I love just jabbering about this show. Makes for a nice break from this awful job.

    Comment

    • LiquidLarry2GhostWF
      Highwayman
      • Feb 2009
      • 15429

       

      My only issue with Lady Stoneheart is the timing...wasn't she resurrected a few days after she was dead? Anything past Episode 1 is stretching the timeline. They should have had a scene where it was seen her being dumped in the river or something.

      I want to at least see Nymeria get her out of the river or something by E1 next season.

      Her role is pretty vital, as she is the "Spirit of Vengeance" in this universe...as is Arya to a point.

      Comment

      • SethMode
        Master of Mysticism
        • Feb 2009
        • 5754

        Originally posted by LiquidLarry2GhostWF
         

        My only issue with Lady Stoneheart is the timing...wasn't she resurrected a few days after she was dead? Anything past Episode 1 is stretching the timeline. They should have had a scene where it was seen her being dumped in the river or something.

        I want to at least see Nymeria get her out of the river or something by E1 next season.

        Her role is pretty vital, as she is the "Spirit of Vengeance" in this universe.
         
        That's really my concern too, at its crux. It's also why I was concerned that it wasn't shown or mentioned that she was tossed in the river (to my knowledge) after the Northerners were massacred. It's why I feel like it now has to be early in season 4, unless they plan on starting to do flashbacks of some sort.

        Comment

        • Villain
          [REDACTED]
          • May 2011
          • 7768

          Originally posted by SethMode
           
          That's really my concern too, at its crux. It's also why I was concerned that it wasn't shown or mentioned that she was tossed in the river (to my knowledge) after the Northerners were massacred. It's why I feel like it now has to be early in season 4, unless they plan on starting to do flashbacks of some sort.
          They don't need to do flashbacks. All they need is for someone to talk about what happened - which has been the device used by Martin throughout the series. For example: we've never seen by way of character POV a single event from Robert's Rebellion, but almost everyone knows about the Battle of the Trident, the Sack of King's Landing, the Battle of the Bells, the Seige of Storm's End, and so on.
          [REDACTED]

          Comment

          • NAHSTE
            Probably owns the site
            • Feb 2009
            • 22233

            Originally posted by LiquidLarry2GhostWF
             

            My only issue with Lady Stoneheart is the timing...wasn't she resurrected a few days after she was dead? Anything past Episode 1 is stretching the timeline. They should have had a scene where it was seen her being dumped in the river or something.

            I want to at least see Nymeria get her out of the river or something by E1 next season.

            Her role is pretty vital, as she is the "Spirit of Vengeance" in this universe...as is Arya to a point.
             
            Yeah it seems like it has to open season 4, IMO.

            Comment

            • SethMode
              Master of Mysticism
              • Feb 2009
              • 5754

              Originally posted by Villain
              They don't need to do flashbacks. All they need is for someone to talk about what happened - which has been the device used by Martin throughout the series. For example: we've never seen by way of character POV a single event from Robert's Rebellion, but almost everyone knows about the Battle of the Trident, the Sack of King's Landing, the Battle of the Bells, the Seige of Storm's End, and so on.
              I think that that works fine for readers of the books, but I think something like this needs to be a little more fleshed out/established for show watchers. The supernatural can be a hard enough sell even in the books at times. I'm just afraid this will come out of left field for viewers. We'll see how they handle it though.

              Comment

              • Villain
                [REDACTED]
                • May 2011
                • 7768

                Originally posted by SethMode
                I think that that works fine for readers of the books, but I think something like this needs to be a little more fleshed out/established for show watchers. The supernatural can be a hard enough sell even in the books at times. I'm just afraid this will come out of left field for viewers. We'll see how they handle it though.
                The Other and its Wights at the end of Seasons 2 were out of left field for TV viewers, even though they appeared in the Pilot Episode.
                [REDACTED]

                Comment

                • SethMode
                  Master of Mysticism
                  • Feb 2009
                  • 5754

                  Originally posted by Villain
                  The Other and its Wights at the end of Seasons 2 were out of left field for TV viewers, even though they appeared in the Pilot Episode.
                  I'm not disagreeing with you. They might nail this and it'll be fine. I just personally am surprised they didn't show it. This isn't a situation where it was some major battle that they don't have the budget to show. It would have been pretty easy for them to show
                   
                  chucking the body in the river during the massacre. As it stands, show watchers (like my friends and girlfriend) have been asking me why they didn't do something equally horrible with her body, considering how much Frey hates the Tully's. I can appreciate if someone didn't want Stoneheart yet, but I just don't think where it happens in the books or how is a good reason. One of the best parts of the show is getting to actually SEE stuff that we only got to hear about in passing in the books (Theon vs. Ramsay is a great example). I don't think that the Others and White Walkers are good example for the reason that Larry said.


                  Alright, I'll stop now.

                  Comment

                  • wingsfan77
                    Junior Member
                    • Aug 2009
                    • 3000

                    Even when I started reading the books after watching season 1 I figured that Dany coming to Westeros wouldn't happen until the very end.

                    Comment

                    • Villain
                      [REDACTED]
                      • May 2011
                      • 7768

                      Continued thoughts on our Season 4 discussion:

                       
                      I did a little bit of poking around and Lady Stark was in the water for three days before Lord Beric recovered her. If we don't get to see that happen directly in the season premiere, I wouldn't be surprised for a second if she appears at the end of that first episode along with Thoros of Myr executing Freys. If we don't see the actual resurrection, I think that Thoros or someone will explain it to the random Frey/Lannister victims and then Lady Stoneheart has them killed.

                      The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of show-only viewers thinking that she is D-E-A-D and having all year to get used to the idea that she's gone in the same way as Eddard and Robb. This way, having her in that first episode could be the TV guys' way of saying "Yerrrp, shit's going down this season, too."


                      This is a fun topic.
                      [REDACTED]

                      Comment

                      • NAHSTE
                        Probably owns the site
                        • Feb 2009
                        • 22233

                        Originally posted by Villain
                        Continued thoughts on our Season 4 discussion:

                         
                        I did a little bit of poking around and Lady Stark was in the water for three days before Lord Beric recovered her. If we don't get to see that happen directly in the season premiere, I wouldn't be surprised for a second if she appears at the end of that first episode along with Thoros of Myr executing Freys. If we don't see the actual resurrection, I think that Thoros or someone will explain it to the random Frey/Lannister victims and then Lady Stoneheart has them killed.

                        The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of show-only viewers thinking that she is D-E-A-D and having all year to get used to the idea that she's gone in the same way as Eddard and Robb. This way, having her in that first episode could be the TV guys' way of saying "Yerrrp, shit's going down this season, too."


                        This is a fun topic.
                         
                        Don't forget that it's Nymeria who pulls her out of the water, leaving her on the banks for the BWOB to discover. So we could fill in some of this exposition with an Arya (wolf)dream sequence.

                        Comment

                        • Ravin
                          Dishing the Gino's
                          • Feb 2009
                          • 6994

                          A few things about this season had me scratching my head.

                           

                          - You only see the Greyjoy's for like 5 minutes the entire season if I recall correctly. I get they don't know where Theon is, but they basically just ignored the other two all the time.

                          - Same with Mance Raider. They made a big deal about him, he was in like one episode. King beyond the wall gets no air time.

                          - And with the white walkers, I guess you just expected to see more of them after the way season 2 ends. Sam was able to run all the way back to the wall and beyond while the walkers are taking a casual stroll. Again like 1 white walker all season.


                          Not huge issues, just little things I noticed. With Rob's story basically over for now, it really gave time for the others. The Lannister scene was one of the best of the season.
                          All you need to know when thinking of the NHL vs Madden series is the two people involved in making the games.

                          "rammer" and "cummings"

                          The NHL series is a giver, Madden takes the load.

                          Comment

                          • Villain
                            [REDACTED]
                            • May 2011
                            • 7768

                            Originally posted by NAHSTE
                             
                            Don't forget that it's Nymeria who pulls her out of the water, leaving her on the banks for the BWOB to discover. So we could fill in some of this exposition with an Arya (wolf)dream sequence.
                            Great point.

                             
                            They better do it that way, if only to make it obvious that Arya is also a Warg like Jon and Bran


                            Originally posted by Ravin
                            A few things about this season had me scratching my head.

                             

                            - You only see the Greyjoy's for like 5 minutes the entire season if I recall correctly. I get they don't know where Theon is, but they basically just ignored the other two all the time.

                            - Same with Mance Raider. They made a big deal about him, he was in like one episode. King beyond the wall gets no air time.

                            - And with the white walkers, I guess you just expected to see more of them after the way season 2 ends. Sam was able to run all the way back to the wall and beyond while the walkers are taking a casual stroll. Again like 1 white walker all season.


                            Not huge issues, just little things I noticed. With Rob's story basically over for now, it really gave time for the others. The Lannister scene was one of the best of the season.
                            It's crazy how they've divided the third book into two seasons and are still managing to not give enough attention to do justice to certain characters/storylines.
                            [REDACTED]

                            Comment

                            • SethMode
                              Master of Mysticism
                              • Feb 2009
                              • 5754

                              Originally posted by Villain
                              Great point.

                               
                              They better do it that way, if only to make it obvious that Arya is also a Warg like Jon and Bran




                              It's crazy how they've divided the third book into two seasons and are still managing to not give enough attention to do justice to certain characters/storylines.
                              I can't remember how much of the White Walkers we had seen at this point in the books, but frankly I feel everything with the Wildlings/White Walkers/Sam/Jon Snow has been fairly mangled post season 1. Mance was literally on the show for like, 5 minutes of screen time, and much of his interactions with Jon didn't carry the same weight as the book, nor did I feel it really established what makes Mance an awesome character. The big swing and a miss this season though, as far as all of that is concerned was that the last we hear is Mance is building a fire to march on the wall, and then poof, never seen again. Obviously that will be in season 4, but it feels like AGES ago even within the already sketchy way time moves in Westeros, that he said he was off to do that.

                              The Greyjoy stuff, as I think I said before, is all so made up at this point it has me genuinely confused (and interested) in where they're going to go with it, since that family needs to be in a very specific position come book 4 (which will presumably be late Season 4, early Season 5).

                              A 9 month wait is just brutal. At least the kids won't all look drastically different this time (I hope)? The transition from Season 2 to Season 3 Bran was jarring.

                              Comment

                              • LiquidLarry2GhostWF
                                Highwayman
                                • Feb 2009
                                • 15429

                                Originally posted by Ravin
                                A few things about this season had me scratching my head.

                                 

                                - You only see the Greyjoy's for like 5 minutes the entire season if I recall correctly. I get they don't know where Theon is, but they basically just ignored the other two all the time.

                                - Same with Mance Raider. They made a big deal about him, he was in like one episode. King beyond the wall gets no air time.

                                - And with the white walkers, I guess you just expected to see more of them after the way season 2 ends. Sam was able to run all the way back to the wall and beyond while the walkers are taking a casual stroll. Again like 1 white walker all season.


                                Not huge issues, just little things I noticed. With Rob's story basically over for now, it really gave time for the others. The Lannister scene was one of the best of the season.
                                 

                                -The Greyjoy's don't have a huge role yet. Hell, the stuff they are doing with Theon is on the fly.

                                -He's just organizing his army while Jon Snow and Co. go over the wall and set shit up for them.

                                -They are always in the background...the War of the Five Kings is there to keep your eye off the ball.

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