Keith Olbermann backup C idea

[Warner2BruceTD]

Olbermann's idea is that the backup C should be able to re-enter the game in the case of an injury to the starting C. The idea being, that managers are always afraid to use their backup C as a pinch hitter, for fear of losing him and not having a catcher on hand if the starter gets injured. This leads to artificially shortening the bench, or some teams carrying a third catcher (who is usually pretty terrible and never plays).

Scenario: Ryan Hanigan pinch hits for the P in the 7th. Devin Mesoraco gets injured in the 9th, leaving the Reds without a C, so Hanigan is allowed to re-enter the game.

Olbermann uses the old (and seldom remembered) pinch runner rule to justify this. Up until the 1950's teams were permitted to pinch run for a runner who was shaken up and needed medical attention, with the player leaving the game able to re-enter in the next half inning on defense if he turned out to be ok. The opposing manager had to approve the move, to prevent fake injuries for the purpose of sneaking faster runners into the game.

Anyway, with C being such a specialized position, what do you think of this potential rule change?

[chazmaniandevil]

no

edit : and thats coming from a giants fan, you know how much i despise eli whitesides swing?

[dj_morton]

I think the thought behind it is good..but it's easily exploited...Ross on the Braves for instance...he'd be my #1 PH every time...and If Heap get's hurt, Ross comes in...Ross is a solid hitter.

[killgod]

How about...

Teams are given an additional bench spot, but it's got some rules to it.

That bench spot is for the backup catcher and he can only come into the game to replace the starting catcher. Should your backup catcher be a good player you'd want to use otherwise, you'd have to slot him into one of your regular 4 bench spots, leaving the 5th "backup catcher" spot open for that game.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I think the thought behind it is good..but it's easily exploited...Ross on the Braves for instance...he'd be my #1 PH every time...and If Heap get's hurt, Ross comes in...Ross is a solid hitter.

That's kinda the point.

This would allow teams like the Braves to use a good hitter like Ross at any point in the game without the fear of being left without a C if McCann goes down.

How about...

Teams are given an additional bench spot, but it's got some rules to it.

That bench spot is for the backup catcher and he can only come into the game to replace the starting catcher. Should your backup catcher be a good player you'd want to use otherwise, you'd have to slot him into one of your regular 4 bench spots, leaving the 5th "backup catcher" spot open for that game.

Sort of like the old #3 QB rule? So in other words, the roster goes from 25 players to 26, but the 26th guy has to be a C, and he can only be used if one of the other catchers gets injured?

That sounds pretty good, actually.

[killgod]

Sort of like the old #3 QB rule? So in other words, the roster goes from 25 players to 26, but the 26th guy has to be a C, and he can only be used if one of the other catchers gets injured?

That sounds pretty good, actually.

Exactly what I was thinking with the QB #3.

Seems like a perfect fit here.

[Senser81]

Olbermann's idea is that the backup C should be able to re-enter the game in the case of an injury to the starting C. The idea being, that managers are always afraid to use their backup C as a pinch hitter, for fear of losing him and not having a catcher on hand if the starter gets injured. This leads to artificially shortening the bench, or some teams carrying a third catcher (who is usually pretty terrible and never plays).

Easily exploitable. Barry Bonds listed as backup C on visiting team. lead off batter is yesterday's starting pitcher. Bonds pinch hits for yesterday's starting pitcher. Starting C is pitcher from two days ago. Bottom of inning, Bonds enters game for "injured" catcher. Bonds is then positioned switched to LF, where the real catcher had been in the lineup. Bonds gets to bat again in the 2nd inning.

[Warner2BruceTD]

Easily exploitable by Dusty Baker. Barry Bonds listed as backup C on visiting team. lead off batter is yesterday's SP, Russ Ortiz. Bonds pinch hits for Ortiz, and is intentionally walked. Starting C is pitcher from two days ago, Kirk Rueter. Bottom of inning, Bonds enters game for "injured" Rueter. Bonds is then positioned switched to LF, where the real catcher, Bobby Estalella had been in the lineup. Bonds gets to bat again in the 2nd inning, where he is intentionally waked. Baker mutters to himself and spits out toothpick.

Dated reference edited for clarity and historical accuracy.

[chazmaniandevil]

^^^^
it'd probably be benito santiago

[NAHSTE]

Eh, as a Braves fan I'd like this because our dumbfuck manager refuses to use our best RH pinch hitter (EVER) because he's also the backup C. But as a purist, I am resistant to any substitution changes.

[kyhadley]

How about...

Teams are given an additional bench spot, but it's got some rules to it.

That bench spot is for the backup catcher and he can only come into the game to replace the starting catcher. Should your backup catcher be a good player you'd want to use otherwise, you'd have to slot him into one of your regular 4 bench spots, leaving the 5th "backup catcher" spot open for that game.

This seems like the perfect solution.

[Goober]

I don't think a rule needs to be changed. Managers just need to grow a pair and use the backup catcher in a PH role when needed. These key PH situations usually happen in the 8th or 9th inning, or in overtime, when you are almost certain to only need another 3-6 outs out of your starting catcher. The odds of the catcher actually being forced out of the game are practically zero. Take the risk and use the backup catcher, I'm sure every team has an absolute emergency type player on each team that can switch to catcher in a pinch anyways.

In my opinion this is the biggest change that needs to happen to make baseball better. More innovative managers. Everyone's afraid to step outside the norm because if it doesn't work they'll be a lightning rod for criticism in the media.

[killgod]

I don't think a rule needs to be changed. Managers just need to grow a pair and use the backup catcher in a PH role when needed. These key PH situations usually happen in the 8th or 9th inning, or in overtime, when you are almost certain to only need another 3-6 outs out of your starting catcher. The odds of the catcher actually being forced out of the game are practically zero. Take the risk and use the backup catcher, I'm sure every team has an absolute emergency type player on each team that can switch to catcher in a pinch anyways.

In my opinion this is the biggest change that needs to happen to make baseball better. More innovative managers. Everyone's afraid to step outside the norm because if it doesn't work they'll be a lightning rod for criticism in the media.

Job security. Nobody wants to lose their job trying to be creative, and if you be creative and fail you're pretty much done in pro sports. Very few coaches in pro sports have that luxury to go outside of the norm and I don't blame them. I wouldn't put that kind of salary at risk on a roll of the dice, you spend too much time and work too hard to get that far.

[Warner2BruceTD]

I don't think a rule needs to be changed. Managers just need to grow a pair and use the backup catcher in a PH role when needed. These key PH situations usually happen in the 8th or 9th inning, or in overtime, when you are almost certain to only need another 3-6 outs out of your starting catcher. The odds of the catcher actually being forced out of the game are practically zero. Take the risk and use the backup catcher, I'm sure every team has an absolute emergency type player on each team that can switch to catcher in a pinch anyways.

In my opinion this is the biggest change that needs to happen to make baseball better. More innovative managers. Everyone's afraid to step outside the norm because if it doesn't work they'll be a lightning rod for criticism in the media.

Very true, and it's even worse in the NFL, where the media largely makes key decisions for just about every coach in the league.

[Goober]

Job security. Nobody wants to lose their job trying to be creative, and if you be creative and fail you're pretty much done in pro sports. Very few coaches in pro sports have that luxury to go outside of the norm and I don't blame them. I wouldn't put that kind of salary at risk on a roll of the dice, you spend too much time and work too hard to get that far.

If a manager loses a few games because both of his catchers are out of the game and he is forced to put a utility guy at catcher, or if he uses his "closer" in a bases loaded jam in the 7th and then another reliever blows the save, it isn't going to affect the teams record enough to cost the manager his job. The manager who tries to mix things up and fails is probably going to be fired because the team sucks ass, not because he stepped out of line with the decision making.

With Joe Maddon's success, I would think more guys would be willing to take the risk; but so far that's not the case.