Ben Wallace Hints At Retirement

[Kuzzy Powers]

What? In all acutallity you were wrong in that thread. You were saying the Bulls drafted Crawford when in technicality they did not. I dont know what in your brain dead mind you thought you were explaining to me, but believe me, there is nothing basketball related that YOU can explain to me. Not by a long fucking shot.

Continue to fail. Your life is obviously one giant one.

[Kuzzy Powers]

And sorry that I cant stop posting even after I said I would.. I cant help but to expose idiots for what they are over, and over, and over again.

[mfbmike]

Alright guys. Take it easy in here.

[mfbmike]

Bruce Bowen does not approve of this message.

lol, I was just making some outlandish statement to stir shit/possibly change subject. :drunk:

[FirstTimer]

What? In all acutallity you were wrong in that thread. You were saying the Bulls drafted Crawford when in technicality they did not.

I never said the Bulls "drafted Crawford". In fact all I alluded to was the fact that as a result of that draft the Bulls had Crawford as a result of one of their 5 picks. I never said the Bulls directly took Crawford at all until I started speculating on how NBA Draft Day Trades work...

I dont know what in your brain dead mind you thought you were explaining to me, but believe me, there is nothing basketball related that YOU can explain to me. Not by a long fucking shot.

Actually there's plenty.

See:

Fizer had some promise until he blew out his knee but never really had a position in the NBA. And Crawford wasn't bad for us. He was basically a taller Ben Gordon. Electric scorer at times and nothing else..then we traded him away.

Still a putrid draft though when you even have Fizer adn Crawford in the convo as some of the better prospects/players.

Well, in technicality the Bulls drafted Mihm.. but yeah I kinda overlooked that pick turning into Crawford instead.

Its funner to just say it was Mihm.. makes the draft look even worse.

Well yeah but they took Mihm with the understanding the Cavs wanted him and would take Crawford to give to the Bulls.

IIRC the way the NBA Draft trades work is the trades aren't announced until after the picks have been made but he team have prearrnaged agreements on who they will take for the purposes of the trade.

Yeah the same thing happened when the Raptors drafted Antwan Jamison and the Warriors drafted Vince Carter.

Dont really understand why things like this happen.. why wouldnt Toronto just take Vince Carter? Perhaps a contract thing.

Maybe?

Just one of those odd rules the NBA Draft has I guess.

Behind the scenes though isn't the other team technically making the pick?

For example with the Tyrus Thomas LaMarcus Aldridge deal. Even though it was announced the Bulls took Aldridge wasn't the pick already traded and the Blazers were the one making the choice? Even though the trade wasn't formally announced until after Khryapa was taken in the 2nd Rd to fulfill the trade?

Or from that same draft. The Bulls and 76ers swung a deal where Sefolosha went 13th overall to the "76ers" even though the 76ers had agreed to trade the 13th pick for the 16th when the "Bulls" took Rodney Carney. Even though the commish announces it as the original positioned team making the pick the trade has already been agreed upon and the respective teams are making the picks(The Bulls made the 13th choice, the 76ers the 16th) and the deal is announced after both teams have selected.

Show me anywhere in there where I state for a fact that: "The Bulls took Crawford"

And sorry that I cant stop posting even after I said I would.. I cant help but to expose idiots for what they are over, and over, and over again.

Done posts +4 and 5?!?!

Wow.

Done +6?

[FirstTimer]

Alright guys. Take it easy in here.

Fine. I'm "done"



XOXO

[Kuzzy Powers]

The fact of the matter is that Detroit was the only team to use him effectively. He was a system player, and that system was one which stressed defense, something neither the Bulls nor Cavs did.

Practice was conducted the majority of the time, on defense. I wouldn't say Rasheed "helped" Ben's D, because Ben was a monster on D and the boards before Rasheed got there anyway.

What did help Ben was that the Pistons played spectacular team defense, and they KNEW they weren't going to get anything from him on the offensive end and accepted that. The Bulls and Cavs never did that and tried to force Ben into being more offensive, pushing him out towards the perimeter.

Yes, he was a help defender, not a great one-on-one defender, there's lots of guys like that. Bowen is a great one-on-one defender, Prince is a great one-on-one defender, Wallace was a great help defender, Duncan is a better help defender than one-on-one defender, etc. That's what Wallace did. That was his niche, and Detroit played to it perfectly while the Bulls and Cavs tried to put him in foreign territory when he was already set in his ways.

So, in the end, I would not say his numbers were an "aberration" by any means, just that he was not harnessed correctly. You wouldn't say LeBron was overrated if Mike Brown's system told him he could only shoot five times a game, you would say he was being misused. That's exactly what Ben's problem was after leaving Detroit.

Does anything you just said translate into him being overrated tho? We've already gone over that being in Detroit helped him. Doesnt mean hes overrated.

[FirstTimer]

The fact of the matter is that Detroit was the only team to use him effectively. He was a system player, and that system was one which stressed defense, something neither the Bulls nor Cavs did.

Practice was conducted the majority of the time, on defense. I wouldn't say Rasheed "helped" Ben's D, because Ben was a monster on D and the boards before Rasheed got there anyway.

What did help Ben was that the Pistons played spectacular team defense, and they KNEW they weren't going to get anything from him on the offensive end and accepted that. The Bulls and Cavs never did that and tried to force Ben into being more offensive, pushing him out towards the perimeter.

Yes, he was a help defender, not a great one-on-one defender, there's lots of guys like that. Bowen is a great one-on-one defender, Prince is a great one-on-one defender, Wallace was a great help defender, Duncan is a better help defender than one-on-one defender, etc. That's what Wallace did. That was his niche, and Detroit played to it perfectly while the Bulls and Cavs tried to put him in foreign territory when he was already set in his ways.

So, in the end, I would not say his numbers were an "aberration" by any means, just that he was not harnessed correctly. You wouldn't say LeBron was overrated if Mike Brown's system told him he could only shoot five times a game, you would say he was being misused. That's exactly what Ben's problem was after leaving Detroit.

Agree with some. Disagree with others. Overall good post.

Not sure how you get that the Bulls weren't focused on defense during those years though?

That was Skiles MO

[mfbmike]

Fine. I'm "done"



XOXO

I appreciate it. It's all good until personal shots start taking place. You guys are more than welcome to call each other failures at life, pieces of shit, etc in the locker room though.

[FedEx227]

lol, I was just making some outlandish statement to stir shit/possibly change subject. :drunk:

Oh okay.

APPROVED!

Although you could argue Wallace is near the top of that list, while I don't really like him he definitely accomplished a lot for an undrafted.

[mike3]

Id like to see him play another year, hes pretty average right now but its a wonder how his game dropped so fast. He used to be such a good defensive player and had some awesome plays, its a shame how things change

[mike3]

No, it doesn't. I don't believe Ben was overrated at all. If anything, I think he was underrated. There's a ton of guys who have made hall of fame careers off being system players...would anyone call Michael Jordan "overrated" even though the Bulls' "system" at that time was basically "Get Michael the ball?" No, you could have considered him a system player because of that. Steve Nash is the epitome of system player for the last 5 or whatever years...would anyone call him overrated? Probably not. Nobody calls Tom Brady overrated even though he's been playing in the NFL's only "system" which harnessed his specific skills, etc.

So no, Ben is not overrated at all. There was just only one team that ran the right "system" for him, and that was Detroit. No other team ran a system that was perfect for him. He was at the right place at the right time in Detroit. That's usually the case in every great player's career.

I'd love to see how he'd be playing today if he was still in detroit

[Len B]

I was wondering how this thread was already five pages, then I saw FT and Kuzzy and it all made sense.

[FirstTimer]

No, it doesn't. I don't believe Ben was overrated at all. If anything, I think he was underrated. There's a ton of guys who have made hall of fame careers off being system players...would anyone call Michael Jordan "overrated" even though the Bulls' "system" at that time was basically "Get Michael the ball?" No, you could have considered him a system player because of that. Steve Nash is the epitome of system player for the last 5 or whatever years...would anyone call him overrated? Probably not. Nobody calls Tom Brady overrated even though he's been playing in the NFL's only "system" which harnessed his specific skills, etc.

So no, Ben is not overrated at all. There was just only one team that ran the right "system" for him, and that was Detroit. No other team ran a system that was perfect for him. He was at the right place at the right time in Detroit. That's usually the case in every great player's career.

LOL at this comparison. MJ succeeded and won MVP's for both coaches he had in Chicago in two different systems. So obviously Jordan was not simply a "system" player seeing as he succeeded in both...let alone the fact that you are comparing the greatest player of all time to a flash in the pan like Wallace who was CLEARLY a system player seeing as as soon as he left the system he tailed off dramtically.

Then on the Steve Nash part...Nash was an All-Star in Dallas and widely seen as one of the top PG's in the NBA before he went the the Suns. Sure the Suns system helped him out, but it's not as if he came out of nowhere in Phoenix.

Wallace did nothing before Detroit and did nothing after Detroit. Clearly that's a system player. LOL at comparing him to guys who have succeeded under multiple coaches and multiple systems.

[Senser81]

Ben Wallace's signing by the Bulls ranks up there with Jon Koncak, Jim McIllvaine, and Jayson Williams as the worst signings ever. I've never seen a bigger POS than this guy. Given a HUGE contract that he definitely did not deserve, and proceeds to sulk about not being able to wear his headband. Dude, you are making 1 million times more money than you should ever be making....STFU. On top of the attitude problems, he was like a poor man's Dennis Rodman. I think a 44-year old Kevin Willis would have been just as effective as Ben Wallace.

Ben Wallace = Kurt Rambis