Lets get back to real NBA bball: 1993 Bulls-Knicks Game 2

[NAHSTE]

No. Prove more people watch NBA, buy more NBA merchandise, or view the NBA website more. All you've done is tell me I'm wrong which is debatable.

Do I really need to do this? This is like when Lefty34 demanded that Warner2Bruce provide empirical proof that the phrase "you win some, you lose some" is applicable to baseball.

But okay... Here goes...

From May 2009:

http://www.nascar.com/2009/news/business/05/12/fox.tv.ratings/index.html

A double-digit decline in ratings for NASCAR on FOX has officials researching why the audience is shrinking and what, if anything, can be done to reverse the trend.

From October 2010:

http://www.nascar.com/2010/news/business/10/18/tv-ratings-chase-drop/index.html

Ratings for the first four Chase races in 2010 were down 27 percent compared with last year. The decline is enough of a concern that top ESPN and NASCAR executives met in Charlotte last weekend to come up with ways to reverse the trend.

From November 2010:

http://www.scenedaily.com/news/articles/sprintcupseries/NASCAR_officials_preaching_patience_amid_plummeting_TV_ratings_loss_of_nearly_2_million_viewers.html

Four years after signing a record $4.48 billion media deal with Fox, ESPN and Turner, NASCAR has lost nearly a quarter of its TV viewership base, a four-year trend of massive viewer defections that has been punctuated by the erosion of the young male demographic.

Meanwhile...

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/06/06/nba-finals-on-abc-most-viewed-since-2004-averaging-15-3-million-viewers-through-three-games/94821/

the 2011 NBA Finals on ABC – with the Miami Heat leading the Dallas Mavericks 2-1 in the best-of-seven series – are averaging 15,311,000 viewers, 10,543,000 household impressions and a 9.1 rating, according to Nielsen.

Don't worry though... NASCAR ratings have been doing better this year:

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/06/07/nascar-on-fox-hits-three-year-viewership-high/94889/

The network’s presentation of the first 13 races of the NASCAR Sprint Cup series hit a three-year high averaging 8.6 million viewers per race, up +9% over last year (7.9 million viewers). That is the largest one-year audience increase in the 11-year history of NASCAR on FOX.

They are now at a three year high, and still only averaging half as many viewers as the NBA Finals, and almost as much as the 9 million that watched the NBA All Star game.

And here's the head to head numbers from the week of the conference finals/Coca Cola 600:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/thelife/news/story?id=6623287

As far as the poll goes, asking a sports fan to give their favorite sport is not selection bias.

Yes it is. NASCAR fans are more likely to select that sport as their favorite sport than NBA fans are to select that as their favorite sport.

Let's say this poll interviewed 1000 people. Let's say 200 are NASCAR fans. They watch the races every weekend, know the drivers, etc.

Now let's say the other 800 are your average sports fans who don't give a shit about NASCAR and only know the big drivers.

All 200 of those NASCAR fans are going to choose that as their favorite sport. But only a segment of the other 800 is going to choose the NBA.

So you have 200 people who love NASCAR, so that's 20%. Then you have the other 80%, half of which choose football but really also like basketball and don't give a shit about NASCAR. Ask the same respondents to order them 1 through 5 and NASCAR gets 200 first place votes and 800 last place votes. Meanwhile the NBA gets a few first place votes and an even distribution of 2nd, 3rd and 4th place votes.

And what you described isn't even the correct use of the term selection bias because selection bias has to do with sample selection that isn't random. It has nothing to do with how someone from that sample responds to the question.

True. I was possibly thinking of response bias but while not paying attention in statistics classes I gleaned that most surveys are screwy in some way. This one provides an incomplete answer to the question of which sport is more popular between the NBA and NASCAR.

I venture to guess that if you asked 1000 pollsters to choose between the two, the NBA would have the majority. But if you ask the 1000 pollsters to choose one out of all of the pro sports, you're bound to have the hardcore NASCAR fans stand out as outliers. They are more of a niche community and likely to be vocal about their patronage of the sport in a one-choice survey.

[FirstTimer]

pwnt.

[spiker]

That's better than posting a clever GIF telling me to "get the fuck out" or suggesting I come from a shitty Chicago website.

Yes it is. NASCAR fans are more likely to select that sport as their favorite sport than NBA fans are to select that as their favorite sport.

Let's say this poll interviewed 1000 people. Let's say 200 are NASCAR fans. They watch the races every weekend, know the drivers, etc.

Now let's say the other 700 are your average sports fans who don't give a shit about NASCAR and only know the big drivers.

All 300 of those NASCAR fans are going to choose that as their favorite sport. But only a segment of the other 700 is going to choose the NBA.

So you have 200 people who love NASCAR, so that's 20%. Then you have the other 80%, half of which choose football but really also like basketball and don't give a shit about NASCAR. Ask the same respondents to order them 1 through 5 and NASCAR gets 200 first place votes and 800 last place votes. Meanwhile the NBA gets a few first place votes and an even distribution of 2, 3 and 4th place votes

I understand what you're saying but I don't understand how you're making the assumption it's biased to respond to your favorite sport. Are the 30ish% people who responded NFL biased towards the NFL or is the NFL actually their favorite sport? What about the 15ish% who responded that the NBA was their favorite in the mid 90s? Are they biased towards the NBA or is the NBA actually their favorite sport? It can't go both ways.

Regardless, you did do your homework and it appears that NASCAR is in decline. The NBA could be higher than NASCAR but it's not like it's blowing it out of the water. The NFL, MLB and college football are kings of the sporting world in the US. Everything else is a fringe sport.

[Senser81]

That's better than posting a clever GIF telling me to "get the fuck out" or suggesting I come from a shitty Chicago website.

Even spikor recognizes how insulting CCS is.

[Bear Pand]

Regardless, you did do your homework and it appears that NASCAR is in decline. The NBA could be higher than NASCAR but it's not like it's blowing it out of the water. The NFL, MLB and college football are kings of the sporting world in the US. Everything else is a fringe sport.

Now the NBA is a fringe sport? Stop recycling terms you read earlier in the thread.

[Dan The Man]

Let's end this series right here before we get to Charles Smith.

[Esjay]

Btw Nascar being more popular than the NBA is literal LOL material. Maybe in the South, nowhere else on the face of the planet.

[Woy]

I like NASCAR better.

[EmpireWF]

Too bad JJordan didn't decide to play some baseball until the mid-90s...Knicks could have had a shot at gold more than just the one year they nearly won.

Anthony Mason FTW.

[manchild24]

:michaelscott:

So people hate the league when it's full of "thugs" ala Allen Iverson but are perfectly fine with people punching one another, tackling each other and fighting into the crowd?

stop using my "thug" word LOL. I think its the image of the way the players look today as compared to back then. The tats, the corn rolls, the bling and the way the players today carry themselves. I think people relate them to people for hoods and inner cities. then you have your impression of hoods and inner cities and I think thats where it comes from. When they may not be thugs at all.

rodman was the first player to cross that line with the yellow wesley snipes "demolition man" hair and then came the tats and it ran from there.

I think if Pistons players looked like the players today, then there would be a different image of them.

[FedEx227]

^ And theeeeeeere we are.

[Warner2BruceTD]

^ And theeeeeeere we are.

The thing is fed, what he is saying is true.

White people, particularly old white people with money, do stereotype the way he described. Magic Johnson what a smiling, fun loving, non threatning looking black guy. White people would have let him babysit their kids. Karl Malone was esssentially a white guy. Barkley, Jordan, Isaih, they were intense on the floor but charasmatic and charming off the floor. But if they had played during the era of tats and cornrows and were cutting rap albums, same shit would have applied. Yes, these players got into fights and fouled hard, but that stuff ends up being viewed as nothing more than hard play if you don't have the negative image to go along with it.

Now when you have Latrell Sprewell choking his coach with his dasterdly cornrows and history with baby mama drama, it comes offf like Springer trash. Same for when Ron Artest punches a fan in the face. Or AI raps about killing cops. You don't expect old white guys to be put off? Shit, you don't expect many people periiod, to be put off?

To me, that era is gone anyway. I don't think the issue today (if there is an issue, because numbers are up and climbing) is "thuggary". Todays player is the wrong kind of cocky. Its hard to explain in words. There is a fine line, and Jordan never really crossed it, or maybe had the type of respect where it didn't matter. Idk. But there are fans who view todays NBA player as selfish and cocky. Look at the Lebron "quit" talk. The poor guy can't have a bad game without being called a quitter. Its insane.

[manchild24]

^ And theeeeeeere we are.

you were waiting for me. hahaha:uglyhammer:

[manchild24]

The thing is fed, what he is saying is true.

White people, particularly old white people with money, do stereotype the way he described. Magic Johnson what a smiling, fun loving, non threatning looking black guy. White people would have let him babysit their kids. Karl Malone was esssentially a white guy. Barkley, Jordan, Isaih, they were intense on the floor but charasmatic and charming off the floor. But if they had played during the era of tats and cornrows and were cutting rap albums, same shit would have applied. Yes, these players got into fights and fouled hard, but that stuff ends up being viewed as nothing more than hard play if you don't have the negative image to go along with it.

Now when you have Latrell Sprewell choking his coach with his dasterdly cornrows and history with baby mama drama, it comes offf like Springer trash. Same for when Ron Artest punches a fan in the face. Or AI raps about killing cops. You don't expect old white guys to be put off? Shit, you don't expect many people periiod, to be put off?

To me, that era is gone anyway. I don't think the issue today (if there is an issue, because numbers are up and climbing) is "thuggary". Todays player is the wrong kind of cocky. Its hard to explain in words. There is a fine line, and Jordan never really crossed it, or maybe had the type of respect where it didn't matter. Idk. But there are fans who view todays NBA player as selfish and cocky. Look at the Lebron "quit" talk. The poor guy can't have a bad game without being called a quitter. Its insane.

Im white, not that old and grew up with the Jordan, Bad Boys, era of the NBA. You hit it right on the head, the more though that Ive watched the NBA my "thug" image of some players have gone away. Hell I have tats so Im not knocking people for that. I forgot the "rap" shit too. I think Bosh went from looking like a "thug" with those dreads, to a bitch that should be hosting Men on Film. (god I fucking him, period)

And if Lebron has a bad game so what, he has 11 other players that are suppose to pick it up and not blow a 10 point lead.

[jeffx]

White people, particularly old white people with money, do stereotype the way he described. Magic Johnson what a smiling, fun loving, non threatning looking black guy. White people would have let him babysit their kids. Karl Malone was esssentially a white guy. Barkley, Jordan, Isaih, they were intense on the floor but charasmatic and charming off the floor. But if they had played during the era of tats and cornrows and were cutting rap albums, same shit would have applied. Yes, these players got into fights and fouled hard, but that stuff ends up being viewed as nothing more than hard play if you don't have the negative image to go along with it.

You're right about the stereotyping thing, but it's still silly. People who do that can fuck off for all I care. I have plenty of tats, sometimes I wear cornrows and I'm definitely not the "smiling, acceptable negro" type. If folks can't deal, that's their problem. We don't need each other's approval in order to be ourselves.